Venable named new Sox Manager-per Merkin

[PaleAleSox]

1 hour ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

I don't know why half this thread is shitted up by Michael Kopech, who remains the only player in sports history to miss an entire season as a result of breaking up with his girlfriend. 

Yeah seriously. Glad he figured it out. Something else will make him lose it eventually. 

[Balta1701]

56 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Yeah, that's the confusing part.

I'm half wondering if the change was temporary and just enough to keep the hitters guessing a little more.

There's a handful of minor things with him that do change in the 2nd half, but it's hard to know how significant they are or if they started a particular day.

-His spin rates are slightly higher in the last 2 months than the first 3.5. 
-He throws fewer strikes in the 2nd half
-His release point and arm angle are slightly different from the first half.
-His arm angle is 43-44 degrees in April-July and it's 46 degrees in August on his 4 seamer.

There's subtle enough changes that suggest there were some mechanical differences in Dodgers Kopech, it's not just "He threw more off speed pitches because he listened to Katz" because he didn't throw more offspeed pitches. The problem is I can't say for sure that these didn’t start 2 weeks earlier because the data isn’t precise enough to say there was a sharp change in any specific outing. I do find it interesting that the arm angle change doesn’t happen until August. He never had as steep of an average arm angle this season as he had on August 3 before that game.

[46DidIt]

Kopech’s performance had nothing to do with his HR rate going from 1.6/9 to 0.4/9? Sure

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

There's a handful of minor things with him that do change in the 2nd half, but it's hard to know how significant they are or if they started a particular day.

-His spin rates are slightly higher in the last 2 months than the first 3.5. 
-He throws fewer strikes in the 2nd half
-His release point and arm angle are slightly different from the first half.
-His arm angle is 43-44 degrees in April-July and it's 46 degrees in August on his 4 seamer.

There's subtle enough changes that suggest there were some mechanical differences in Dodgers Kopech, it's not just "He threw more off speed pitches because he listened to Katz" because he didn't throw more offspeed pitches. The problem is I can't say for sure that these didn’t start 2 weeks earlier because the data isn’t precise enough to say there was a sharp change in any specific outing. I do find it interesting that the arm angle change doesn’t happen until August. He never had as steep of an average arm angle this season as he had on August 3 before that game.

That would make sense if he's throwing more cutters than true sliders....then even moreso for a sweeper, which he doesn't throw yet.

Edited November 1 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

That would make sense if he's throwing more cutters than true spiders....

Starting in August and September he is throwing his cutter a fair amount less than earlier in the year and its spin rate does spike at the start of August also. In a lot of his August appearances he doesn't use anything that gets caught as a cutter. He does throw his slider a "TINY" bit more in August than before but I'm not sure it's a significant difference, it's maybe 1 more slider every 2 outings on average.

What pitch is a spider?

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 10/30/2024 at 6:39 PM, hi8is said:

That will be fun indeed.

I guess our only hope is that the plan of developing a capable system actually works out. Venable must believe that they can do it.

We all have more experience to believe that. 😆

A new manager like Venable basically takes the job because it coincided with his family and career taking steps forward while he espouses positive vibes about the future.

I hope it's not the end of positive steps forward for his life. He could hold this job for quite a while as part of the Getz plan to claw back to respectability.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 10/31/2024 at 4:31 PM, FloydBannister1983 said:

Yeah but we also witnessed crap like the hustling Cleveland batter beating a lolligagging Andrew Vaughn to first base.  There was zero energy.

 

 

My goodness. Some crazy takes in here about what a new manager says and judging how much effort someone gives.

You called it loligagging but not everyone sees through your eyes. I see it as a series of mental errorss. He clearly misjudged how much time he had. He took his eye off the runner going to 1st base and kept his eye on another runner. He also could've tagged the runner going to 1st. For the less talented or rookies we often hear about how things move much faster at higher levels which require you to speed up your thought proceseses, increase your preparedness, train harder, eat better, sleep better. It's not enough, you  just can't do the right thing often often mentally or physically to get to that level.

You could make a massively long lowlites reel  of bad play for every team in baseball.

Did Judge want to screw up a routine fly ball in the biggest baseball stage in one of the most important days of his life ? That whole inning was a s%*# show. There are mental and physical errors, concentration lapses, plays that you make while doing things wrong, and errors you make while doing things right. They play through pain that slows them down , they may have a sick family member. Yet fans get on here and think they see lack of effort through body language. When you lack talent you look bad against the more talented .It weighs on you, it brings you down . Sometimes the less talented win because they are all better than 99 % of all players wordwide so even the Sox can beat teams far more talented on ocassion especially in a sport where pitching can dominate and make you look bad.

Edited November 2 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Starting in August and September he is throwing his cutter a fair amount less than earlier in the year and its spin rate does spike at the start of August also. In a lot of his August appearances he doesn't use anything that gets caught as a cutter. He does throw his slider a "TINY" bit more in August than before but I'm not sure it's a significant difference, it's maybe 1 more slider every 2 outings on average.

What pitch is a spider?

The Black Widow

[Balta1701]

9 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My goodness. Some crazy takes in here about what a new manager says and judging how much effort someone gives.

You could make a massively long lowlites reel  of bad play for every team in baseball.

Did Judge want to screw up a routine fly ball in the biggest baseball stage in one of the most important days of his life ? That whole inning was a s%*# show. There are mental and physical errors, concentration lapses, plays that you make while doing things wrong, and errors you make while doing things right. They play through pain that slows them down , they may have a sick family member. Yet fans get on here and think they see lack of effort through body language. When you lack talent you look bad against the more talented .It weighs on you, it brings you down . Sometimes the less talented win because they are all better than 99 % of all players wordwide so even the Sox can beat teams far more talented on ocassion especially in a sport where pitching can dominate and make you look bad.

What's ironic about bringing up the Yankees and Dodgers series is that you had a great example of a spot where one team lost because they were sloppy and one team won because they were crisp. The team that was sloppy was sloppy the whole year, they were one of the worst base running teams the whole year and they made a ton of mental errors the whole year. That team got by on talent, but they never put in the effort to play the game cleanly. I'm not sure which team was more talented of the two, but I can safely say that better coached team won.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What's ironic about bringing up the Yankees and Dodgers series is that you had a great example of a spot where one team lost because they were sloppy and one team won because they were crisp. The team that was sloppy was sloppy the whole year, they were one of the worst base running teams the whole year and they made a ton of mental errors the whole year. That team got by on talent, but they never put in the effort to play the game cleanly. I'm not sure which team was more talented of the two, but I can safely say that better coached team won.

https://www.justbaseball.com/mlb/kopech-edman-trade-won-dodgers-world-series/
 

It’s pretty easy to go with the Dodgers with three former MVP’s and the current best player on the planet…and the amount of money invested across that pitching staff, albeit Glasnow Kershaw May all injured.

One argument is simply that the AL was weaker due to the AL Central issue of two teams that normally don’t make postseason without playing the worst team in baseball history a disproportionate number of times.

 

Stanton Soto Judge are also not guys who can easily change their approaches just to make contact…especially Stanton and Judge.

LA always fought you every single at-bat, and had more of a cohesive team approach…seemingly.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

LA always fought you every single at-bat, and had more of a cohesive team approach…seemingly.

So you're saying LA was the better coached team and this clearly showed up throughout that series. I agree. 

[FloydBannister1983]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My goodness. Some crazy takes in here about what a new manager says and judging how much effort someone gives.

You called it loligagging but not everyone sees through your eyes. I see it as a series of mental errorss. He clearly misjudged how much time he had. He took his eye off the runner going to 1st base and kept his eye on another runner. He also could've tagged the runner going to 1st. For the less talented or rookies we often hear about how things move much faster at higher levels which require you to speed up your thought proceseses, increase your preparedness, train harder, eat better, sleep better. It's not enough, you  just can't do the right thing often often mentally or physically to get to that level.

You could make a massively long lowlites reel  of bad play for every team in baseball.

Did Judge want to screw up a routine fly ball in the biggest baseball stage in one of the most important days of his life ? That whole inning was a s%*# show. There are mental and physical errors, concentration lapses, plays that you make while doing things wrong, and errors you make while doing things right. They play through pain that slows them down , they may have a sick family member. Yet fans get on here and think they see lack of effort through body language. When you lack talent you look bad against the more talented .It weighs on you, it brings you down . Sometimes the less talented win because they are all better than 99 % of all players wordwide so even the Sox can beat teams far more talented on ocassion especially in a sport where pitching can dominate and make you look bad.

Lack of hustle is not a physical error.  It’s called laziness.  Judge did not make an error due to laziness, not nearly close to Vaughn lolligagging it.

 

Also who made the claim everyone sees it through my eyes.  You want to make the claim Vaughn was busting his rear end on that play go ahead.  

Edited November 2 by FloydBannister1983

[Balta1701]

53 minutes ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Lack of hustle is not a physical error.  It’s called laziness.  Judge did not make an error due to laziness, not nearly close to Vaughn lolligagging it.

 

Also who made the claim everyone sees it through my eyes.  You want to make the claim Vaughn was busting his rear end on that play go ahead.  

If you ever want to see what proper coaching can do about errors look at the 2012 White Sox.

2012, Robin Ventura gave a s%*#, White Sox had the fewest errors in baseball. 

2013, Robin Ventura stopped caring, same players except added Keppinger, 29th fewest errors in baseball, 2nd worst.

[hi8is]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I hope it's not the end of positive steps forward for his life.

😆

[bobbydanks]

I like him  because he has to be legit a psycopath to pick this team over other options. He's probably already invited ozzie and AJ over for a slap fight. 

[Dick Allen]

7 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

If you ever want to see what proper coaching can do about errors look at the 2012 White Sox.

2012, Robin Ventura gave a s%*#, White Sox had the fewest errors in baseball. 

2013, Robin Ventura stopped caring, same players except added Keppinger, 29th fewest errors in baseball, 2nd worst.

This is the 2013 White Sox. If you want to pin their sucking on Robin Ventura, I will counter and say the roster was a bit problematic when it came to winning.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2013.shtml

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

What's ironic about bringing up the Yankees and Dodgers series is that you had a great example of a spot where one team lost because they were sloppy and one team won because they were crisp. The team that was sloppy was sloppy the whole year, they were one of the worst base running teams the whole year and they made a ton of mental errors the whole year. That team got by on talent, but they never put in the effort to play the game cleanly. I'm not sure which team was more talented of the two, but I can safely say that better coached team won.

Did you put your ass on the line and make a prediction because you saw all this ahead of time ?

Youre all over the place.

They were sloppy ,bad base running and mental errors the whole year.

No effort to play the game cleanly.

Safely say the better coached team won.

Of course when you win you can safely point out why.

When you win you do all kinds of things better than the other team.

Did Ohtani become the best hitter / runner in baseball because he was better coached ? Were Betts and Freeman not some of the best players in the world before the Dodgers acquired them ?

How you play in a short series is largely dependent on some players getting hot while others are cold. Pitchers could make more pitches. Hitters could go into a funk. Maybe even luck comes into play like you say it did with Thorpe with your expert analysis of his season and future.

You could make grandiose generalized statements about anything that a winning team did better than the other team and sound like you hit the nail on the head. How are you so sure from your cheap seat in the crows nest that all the coaching from all the coaches was better than all the coaching that the other team did ? Oh if only some great coach had told Judge to keep his eye on the ball for the thousand time he might have caught that ball. Even very talented players have flaws in their games that show up at inopportune times. I can safely say that the team that makes the least physical and mental errors at the  right moments in space and time usually win.

Which Major League team are you working for again ? You're scouting and analytics skills most surely have been recognized by now.

 

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Did you put your ass on the line and make a prediction because you saw all this ahead of time ?

Youre all over the place.

They were sloppy ,bad base running and mental errors the whole year.

No effort to play the game cleanly.

Safely say the better coached team won.

Of course when you win you can safely point out why.

When you win you do all kinds of things better than the other team.

Did Ohtani become the best hitter / runner in baseball because he was better coached ? Were Betts and Freeman not some of the best players in the world before the Dodgers acquired them ?

How you play in a short series is largely dependent on some players getting hot while others are cold. Pitchers could make more pitches. Hitters could go into a funk. Maybe even luck comes into play like you say it did with Thorpe with your expert analysis of his season and future.

You could make grandiose generalized statements about anything that a winning team did better than the other team and sound like you hit the nail on the head. How are you so sure from your cheap seat in the crows nest that all the coaching from all the coaches was better than all the coaching that the other team did ? Oh if only some great coach had told Judge to keep his eye on the ball for the thousand time he might have caught that ball. Even very talented players have flaws in their games that show up at inopportune times. I can safely say that the team that makes the least physical and mental errors at the  right moments in space and time usually win.

Which Major League team are you working for again ? You're scouting and analytics skills most surely have been recognized by now.

 

Yeah the Yankees were clearly so poorly coached they played in the World Series.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said:

Lack of hustle is not a physical error.  It’s called laziness.  Judge did not make an error due to laziness, not nearly close to Vaughn lolligagging it.

 

Also who made the claim everyone sees it through my eyes.  You want to make the claim Vaughn was busting his rear end on that play go ahead.  

Did you even read what I said ? I said Vaughn made a series of mental errors on that play play. A series of miscalculations on what to do on that particular play.  He thought he was doing enough to get the out while keeping his attention on another base runner. That's the exact reason Judge missed that fly ball. Routine play gone awry because you try to split your focus and it backfired. Lots of times it doesn't backfire. People aren't perfect. They make mental errors and seeing lack of effort is just a bitter man's way of crying about how much money these SOBs make the least they can do is hustle bullshit.

Of course there are plenty of times there is legit lack of hustle. Anyone's who's ever played any baseball slows down running to 1st base when it appears the out will be recorded . Sometimes the 1st baseman drops the ball on a routine catch.Sometimes you're tired and playing your 12th game in 2 weeks and your hammy might be feeling tight. Maybe you had a leg cramp sitting in the dugout. Maybe you fouled a ball off your foot or ankle a day or 2 ago and it's sore. Maybe youre legs are sore because you steal a lot of bases. Maybe you're on a long road trip drank lousy coffee,  ate bad food . Pinning something on laziness is ,well, just lazy thinking and lack of empathy.

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Did you put your ass on the line and make a prediction because you saw all this ahead of time ?

Youre all over the place.

They were sloppy ,bad base running and mental errors the whole year.

No effort to play the game cleanly.

Safely say the better coached team won.

Of course when you win you can safely point out why.

When you win you do all kinds of things better than the other team.

Did Ohtani become the best hitter / runner in baseball because he was better coached ? Were Betts and Freeman not some of the best players in the world before the Dodgers acquired them ?

How you play in a short series is largely dependent on some players getting hot while others are cold. Pitchers could make more pitches. Hitters could go into a funk. Maybe even luck comes into play like you say it did with Thorpe with your expert analysis of his season and future.

You could make grandiose generalized statements about anything that a winning team did better than the other team and sound like you hit the nail on the head. How are you so sure from your cheap seat in the crows nest that all the coaching from all the coaches was better than all the coaching that the other team did ? Oh if only some great coach had told Judge to keep his eye on the ball for the thousand time he might have caught that ball. Even very talented players have flaws in their games that show up at inopportune times. I can safely say that the team that makes the least physical and mental errors at the  right moments in space and time usually win.

Which Major League team are you working for again ? You're scouting and analytics skills most surely have been recognized by now.

 

It’s going to be an especially long offseason 😆

[Kyyle23]

11 minutes ago, hi8is said:

It’s going to be an especially long offseason 😆

Way to put your ass on the line and predict it

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Yeah the Yankees were clearly so poorly coached they played in the World Series.

Going by DRS, they were slightly above average at 31 whereas the Dodgers had 66, good for third.

Our beloved White Sox anchored the list with -87. 

So… maybe if the Yankees had our defense, they could have won the World Serious.

[Texsox]

14 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

 I'm not sure which team was more talented of the two, but I can safely say that better coached team won.

In addition to that being true I believe we need to look at their prior coaching as well. It's tough for a staff to overcome a decade of poor coaching by the coaches that came before. Habits get ingrained over years. 

 

[Balta1701]

15 minutes ago, Texsox said:

In addition to that being true I believe we need to look at their prior coaching as well. It's tough for a staff to overcome a decade of poor coaching by the coaches that came before. Habits get ingrained over years. 

 

Conveniently Alex Cora and Dave Roberts have been there a while.

[Texsox]

22 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Conveniently Alex Cora and Dave Roberts have been there a while.

I'm thinking way back to their first little league coach. I'm certain you've seen in your students kids who have habits that have been honed since middle school. They have had excellent science teachers for many years and excellent foundations. Under stress they will generally outperform equally intelligent students without that background. It would be unfair to give their current teacher all the blame, or all the credit, for their actions. 

I have players that come to me with no idea how to practice and others with focused practice routines.  I do my best to prepare them all for college golf. Obviously one group has an advantage over the other. Other coaches are more baby sisters and can't really do that. Either because they never played, never talked with college coaches, or sadly, don't care. 

In this example if their high school coach understood not running hard all the way to first on a sure out, and their college coach was equally ambivalent, then they arrived in professional ball they have eight plus years of habits to undo.