Venable named new Sox Manager-per Merkin

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The payroll is getting cut again because the profit margin simply hasn't been enough for the owner the past few years.

It is possible to do the bolded part in a good organization. The White Sox are not a good organization and the owner continues to feel superstars/quality talent isn't worth the money they are getting paid by other clubs. Just this past year he basically called them stupid for doing so.

Nothing changes until he is gone.

Someone should ask JR if he regrets taking Ohtani off the FA board still...

(He would probably argue that the Sox still wouldn't be profitable at their current location even on Shohei's original deal with the Angels...)

Edited 21 hours ago by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

47 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

On this very page, you have people complaining about risky extensions and trading away players every time they get good. lol

Yea because the white Sox are on the wrong side of both of those events, normally 

[caulfield12]

The closest we had to dumping players when they actually became "good" was Burger and a whole slew of relievers turned over...that magically improved upon leaving the organization.

(Then you have the unique circumstances with Crochet's career...much like Rodon's 2021 season.  Or Gio's union representation. Or Lopez and Kopech not being much more than clay with "potential" upon leaving. Lots and lots of excuses why we won't ever pay pitching...)

 

But you're pretty much doomed if you avoid all bigger pitching contracts out of fear... and can't time the newest pitching core and a hitting core coming together simultaneously.

One major injury and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

Edited 21 hours ago by caulfield12

[TheFutureIsNear]

It’s not Nevin and doesn’t seem to be a guy that Jerry/TLR would have pushed. About as happy as a Sox fan can get
 

Venable’s main job isn’t going to be winning baseball games for at least 2 years, but hopefully he’s able to build a positive culture in the clubhouse and bring us up to at least a somewhat modern baseball franchise. 
 

Unfortunately Venuables long term future and not being a stepping stone manager relies on Getz being able to make good baseball moves and build a team. Not promising…

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, Johno said:

Ok, so it sounds like the new manager is getting good reviews, so can someone explain why we are cutting payroll again next year?   Is it not possible to still rebuild the entire organization and still go out and sign some quality free agents?   

Because, Jerry.

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Because, Jerry.

TV revenues down will be excuse...

[WestEddy]

56 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The closest we had to dumping players when they actually became "good" was Burger and a whole slew of relievers turned over...that magically improved upon leaving the organization.

(Then you have the unique circumstances with Crochet's career...much like Rodon's 2021 season.  Or Gio's union representation. Or Lopez and Kopech not being much more than clay with "potential" upon leaving. Lots and lots of excuses why we won't ever pay pitching...)

 

But you're pretty much doomed if you avoid all bigger pitching contracts out of fear... and can't time the newest pitching core and a hitting core coming together simultaneously.

One major injury and the whole thing goes up in smoke.

This notion is growing to "entire teams of ex-White Sox have won multiple pennants since leaving" proportions. Tim Hill is enjoying his dead cat bounce. Surely your not arguing that John Brebbia and Michael Kopech "magically improved" upon leaving. Kopech started listening to his coaches 2 appearances before he was traded. Declan Cronin was basically Justin Anderson with the Marlins. 

[Dick Allen]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I don't remember saying any of that, but if you show me the post, I'd be more than happy to explain it. 

As far as Gonzalez, it's a rumor that was a case where upper management overruled the pros. 

If that rumor is even possibly true, how can you have any faith in building a team with the 10th pick? Is there anyone in the Sox minor leagues that actually projects to being a decent hitter in the major leagues? They better get some hitters for Crochet. The messed up with Fedde. Made a nice signing to get him, then blew it. 
 

 

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This notion is growing to "entire teams of ex-White Sox have won multiple pennants since leaving" proportions. Tim Hill is enjoying his dead cat bounce. Surely your not arguing that John Brebbia and Michael Kopech "magically improved" upon leaving. Kopech started listening to his coaches 2 appearances before he was traded. Declan Cronin was basically Justin Anderson with the Marlins. 

Seems like an entire bullpen right there, maybe not 25-26 relievers...only around 10.

 

Aaron Bummer Atl  dubious 5/1 trade of guys Atlanta needed off their payroll

Tim Hill Yankees/released

Jake Cousins NYY cash considerations

J.Chavez Atl released in spring training

M.Kopech LAD now one of best high leverage relievers in baseball

Tanner Banks Phillies

Brent Honeywell LAD released

Declan Cronin Marlins  waived, ends up with Houston, becomes solid contributor in Miami

Bailey Horn to Boston for cash...not to mention Rome Gonzalez would have led the White Sox in OPS

Brebbia released, to Braves, SSS

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

This notion is growing to "entire teams of ex-White Sox have won multiple pennants since leaving" proportions. Tim Hill is enjoying his dead cat bounce. Surely your not arguing that John Brebbia and Michael Kopech "magically improved" upon leaving. Kopech started listening to his coaches 2 appearances before he was traded. Declan Cronin was basically Justin Anderson with the Marlins. 

Who did your boy get for Jake Cousins? He picked Bryan Shaw.

Edited 20 hours ago by Dick Allen

[A-Train to 35th]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

That Getz player development magic at work.

Agree, The Sox messed up Vaughn by bringing him up early when Jose was still our 1B, then moved him to multiple positions he had never played since little league.  The Sox braintrust decided it was a good idea to put the slowest person on the team in RF so he can humiliate himself and lose any confidence he may have had with his bat.  He should have been in the minors as long as Jose was still on the team.

[WestEddy]

43 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Seems like an entire bullpen right there, maybe not 25-26 relievers...only around 10.

 

Aaron Bummer Atl  dubious 5/1 trade of guys Atlanta needed off their payroll

Tim Hill Yankees/released

Jake Cousins NYY cash considerations

J.Chavez Atl released in spring training

M.Kopech LAD now one of best high leverage relievers in baseball

Tanner Banks Phillies

Brent Honeywell LAD released

Declan Cronin Marlins  waived, ends up with Houston, becomes solid contributor in Miami

Bailey Horn to Boston for cash...not to mention Rome Gonzalez would have led the White Sox in OPS

Brebbia released, to Braves, SSS

Half of those guys either were traded without pitching for the Sox, or didn't really get better. Bummer went from insanely horrible to passible. Declan Cronin's numbers were better than Bummers, for heaven's sake, and he was basically Justin Anderson. Banks had worse BB/K numbers. Chavez hasn't been good for anybody but Atlanta for the last 5 years. 

I'm sure we could make a list of guys who left and became even worse versions of ass. I think it would be fair to say some pitched better, some were worse, and some were as good. You seem to have presented it like every single guy who leaves becomes a top bullpen arm in the game. 

[WestEddy]

48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

If that rumor is even possibly true, how can you have any faith in building a team with the 10th pick? Is there anyone in the Sox minor leagues that actually projects to being a decent hitter in the major leagues? They better get some hitters for Crochet. The messed up with Fedde. Made a nice signing to get him, then blew it. 
 

 

Because the people who meddled are gone? We all seem to have a problem accepting that firing people means they no longer make any decisions. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

"We need Crochets value to get other possible less good crochets to get even more less quality crochets after that."

When everytime you get a good player, "you need to trade them to build the team" at what point you start asking yourself.... what are we actually building here?

 Best case scenario is TB. They never won a WS but they compete while always trading their stars.

They are able to do this the only way possible which is an ultra strong infrastructure based on scouting and development prowess domestically and internationally, solid coaching, sticking to the types of players they've identified that fit their system. They can't put finishing touches because they don't spend but they make the most of what they do spend on.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Because the people who meddled are gone? We all seem to have a problem accepting that firing people means they no longer make any decisions. 

Chris Getz is gone?!

[A-Train to 35th]

4 hours ago, SoxBlanco said:

Ray Ray, there are people in life who suck at their job, do some self reflection, and then try to do things differently. 

There are also people who suck and will always suck because they are too stupid or too stubborn to make changes. 

This hire COULD mean Getz falls into the first category. Do we know that for sure? Of course not. But it’s better than the alternative of hiring from within again or hiring somebody from the Royals again. 

Like you said, the manager of this team will not make a big difference in the win/loss column, especially this year when the roster is so bad. But it’s ok to at least have some hope that the overall big-picture thought process could be headed in the right direction. 

Yes, the key word is “could” and none of this could mean anything positive. But there’s nothing wrong with being a little optimistic and having some hope. 

There’s also nothing wrong with saying “What in the world has this organization ever done to give me hope?” One managerial hire (who I have no clue as to whether they are a good manager) means nothing to me. 

I always lean toward optimism because that’s how I’m wired. 

1981 when they signed Carton Fisk and Greg Luzinski

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Half of those guys either were traded without pitching for the Sox, or didn't really get better. Bummer went from insanely horrible to passible. Declan Cronin's numbers were better than Bummers, for heaven's sake, and he was basically Justin Anderson. Banks had worse BB/K numbers. Chavez hasn't been good for anybody but Atlanta for the last 5 years. 

I'm sure we could make a list of guys who left and became even worse versions of ass. I think it would be fair to say some pitched better, some were worse, and some were as good. You seem to have presented it like every single guy who leaves becomes a top bullpen arm in the game. 

It's just kind of ironic when you look at 2 of the biggest budget teams in baseball and half their bullpens are comprised of ex-Sox pitchers.  And the White Sox had inarguably one of the worst pens in the entire 120 year history of baseball.  What exactly are the odds of THAT?

And that's not including the likes of Tommy Kahnle, Ian Hamilton and Daniel Hudson.

Edited 19 hours ago by caulfield12

[A-Train to 35th]

3 hours ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Pros: outside org hire:

Cons: almost everything else.

Willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. But we've hired patsy managers over and over since Guillen and the one time we went all against that with TLR it was also a disaster. We've shown no ability to hire a manager that is above replacement and that can work with the FO closely.

I didn't want him at the time because of my disdain for Houston but Hahn was right about A.J. Hinch.

Had he become our manager instead of TLR we most likely would have never set the MLB record for futility and been in the position were in now.

[caulfield12]

2 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

I didn't want him at the time because of my disdain for Houston but Hahn was right about A.J. Hinch.

Had he become our manager instead of TLR we most likely would have never set the MLB record for futility and been in the position were in now.

Let's say by some minor miracle we struggled through the last three seasons around .500.

Back to "mired in mediocrity."

And then we wouldn't be in a position to have the 1-1 draft pick in 2026.

Maybe not the embarrassing crash landing/bottoming out that generated national headlines, but still not sure the franchise's future actually looks THAT MUCH rosier.

Attendance still would have been 22nd through 26th as a .500ish team.  They still likely would have had similarly abysmal t.v. ratings as well.   You're talking marginal differences in ratings points, like maybe 0.1 or 0.2 but well under 1.0.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, hi8is said:

We’re really in need of a miracle for any semblance of a hope for years to come.

- You can’t rely on the draft with the new “competitive balance” rules. 

- We also can’t get lottery picks because we’re a big market team. 

- We can’t sign our way into being competitive since stars are costing 500 million bucks.

- We can’t expect to compete internationally for ages since we are way behind the times on that front too. Case in point, we’re just now building a facility in the DR.

- We haven’t been able to develop anything on the offensive side in years.

Our best hope is that Bannister can take our strength of developing starting pitchers to the next level while we instill a similar fixture on the offensive side.

It’s going to be a long fucking road guys.

Apparently it'll also take an act of JR charity to sign more than 1 guy to a Fedde like contract. We can't even spend our way out of the garbage dumpster let alone anything resembling a big money contract.

It's pretty much going to be the same as last year only without those guys we kept thinking would be leading the parade.Bye Moncada, Eloy, Kopech. Is there anyone left of the old core ? Robert maybe Vaughn.  Both venturing into Eloy and Moncada levels of ineptitude.

Can't wait to hear Venable explain why he took the job. I'm sure we will hear positive platitudes that he likes certain things that we'll all snicker about.
We'd like to think with all the restructuring going on that its steps in the right direction.

But JR is still the Ringmaster of this circus. ( I took a break from calling him the puppeteer.)😂

[A-Train to 35th]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

TV revenues down will be excuse...

So sad to see the BlackHawks follow JR's new sports network.  What a flop, all the exposure and advertising dollars lost because JR thought it would be a good idea to put it on free TV thinking he would still get Comcast, YouTube and others to pay up when people can buy a $20 antenna.  Not that I'm going to buy spend $20 on one, at least not until the teams start winning.  

[Y2Jimmy0]

I was told that Jeremy Haber made the decision to draft Jacob Gonzalez once their top target, Blake Mitchell, was off the board. 

[ChiSoxJon]

12 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Maybe.

I have no idea if Venable is a good manager or good at developing young players and the person evaluating that ability... told me Pedro Grifol was sharp.

People here hated Renteria but he was actually good at those things. 

Was he? Not sure why he has sympathizers....Strategically, he was bottom tier...Good guy? Sure, Good manager? Hell no...Not too sure he's responsible for developing much

11 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

It's a narrative crushing hire.  They didn't hire the LaRussa guy, the cheap guy or the ex-Royal guy.  They hired the best available young manager who has turned down other manager jobs which means Chris had to sell him on his vision for the organization.  It's a very exciting hire.  

Apparently Grifol was in the top 10 highest paid MLB managers...Insane

10 hours ago, poppysox said:

I'm glad to see a new manager hired in time to have input into the FA process.

What FA connections can we make to Venable? Rizzo? Leclerc?

[hi8is]

30 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Can't wait to hear Venable explain why he took the job.

That will be fun indeed.

I guess our only hope is that the plan of developing a capable system actually works out. Venable must believe that they can do it.

We all have more experience to believe that. 😆

[A-Train to 35th]

41 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Let's say by some minor miracle we struggled through the last three seasons around .500.

Back to "mired in mediocrity."

And then we wouldn't be in a position to have the 1-1 draft pick in 2026.

Maybe not the embarrassing crash landing/bottoming out that generated national headlines, but still not sure the franchise's future actually looks THAT MUCH rosier.

Attendance still would have been 22nd through 26th as a .500ish team.  They still likely would have had similarly abysmal t.v. ratings as well.   You're talking marginal differences in ratings points, like maybe 0.1 or 0.2 but well under 1.0.

86-76 and a playoff berth and actually winning the wildcard against Houston in Houston is different than mired in mediocrity. They also were up 2-1 against Cleveland with all their wins coming on the road before losing in 5 games.

Are you saying A.J. Hinch wouldn't have made a difference had we not chosen TLR over Hinch?  

Show the South Side a winner and they will come to the ballpark in 2006 they drew 2,957,414

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/attend.shtml