JoeC Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 7 hours ago, greg775 said: 225 wins will not get Greinke in unless a ton of starters in the 200-220 range get in before him. No way on Scherzer at 216 wins. And no way on Verlander at 260. You do realize the Hall of Fame's standards, generally speaking, are greatness in comparison to your era's peers, right? That's why you have guys like Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, and Trevor Hoffman in the Hall. Back when they were playing, there was still a lot of debate over if they deserved to be in the Hall because of their positions (DH = failed fielder; CL / RP = failed starter). The Hall's standards evolve with the game, so the whole "you need (x) wins to get in the Hall" is an extremely outdated notion. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 13 minutes ago, JoeC said: You do realize the Hall of Fame's standards, generally speaking, are greatness in comparison to your era's peers, right? That's why you have guys like Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, and Trevor Hoffman in the Hall. Back when they were playing, there was still a lot of debate over if they deserved to be in the Hall because of their positions (DH = failed fielder; CL / RP = failed starter). The Hall's standards evolve with the game, so the whole "you need (x) wins to get in the Hall" is an extremely outdated notion. There's also a lot of guys in the Hall without 300 wins in eras where it was "easier" to get it https://www.baseball-reference.com/awards/hof_pitching.shtml 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 (edited) In 1963 Dick Allen was the first black professional baseball player in the state of Arkansas. This might sound unbelievable but add in he did this at the height of the Civil Rights Movement. If you want to look at Allen's career stats and discount him because he didn't hit 500 homers or 3,000 hits, I think you have to understand the struggles he went through in Arkansas and then Philly for being born black and how that impacted hiss baseball career. if I had a vote Dick Allen would have already been in the HoF. Dick Allen's Journey - BallNine Edited November 5 by Falstaff 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 3 hours ago, Falstaff said: In 1963 Dick Allen was the first black professional baseball player in the state of Arkansas. This might sound unbelievable but add in he did this at the height of the Civil Rights Movement. If you want to look at Allen's career stats and discount him because he didn't hit 500 homers or 3,000 hits, I think you have to understand the struggles he went through in Arkansas and then Philly for being born black and how that impacted hiss baseball career. if I had a vote Dick Allen would have already been in the HoF. Dick Allen's Journey - BallNine I seem to remember reading that as the Phillies fell out of first place in 1964, Dick Allen became a focus of the press, even though the guy hit .419/.471/.710 from 9/18 through the end of the season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 16 hours ago, flavum said: Yes, Cole has won a Cy-last year. Couple 2nds too. On the Hall of Fame highway. My bad. Maybe he is in then. I didn’t know he won last year. I remembered Verlander beating him out a couple years ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 15 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Compare to Pettite pre-steroids...who earned so much of his reputation in the post-season. I would put Cole ahead of him, but obviously he needs to go for another five years at least. I guess I’ve just blacked out on Cole after 2019 World Series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 6 hours ago, JoeC said: You do realize the Hall of Fame's standards, generally speaking, are greatness in comparison to your era's peers, right? That's why you have guys like Edgar Martinez, Frank Thomas, and Trevor Hoffman in the Hall. Back when they were playing, there was still a lot of debate over if they deserved to be in the Hall because of their positions (DH = failed fielder; CL / RP = failed starter). The Hall's standards evolve with the game, so the whole "you need (x) wins to get in the Hall" is an extremely outdated notion. Agree with what you say but it sucks. You’re going to see guys with 150 wins and no shutouts in the Hall of Fame and nobody will be able to figure out why unless they have a computer in front of them. I hate how the pitching game has evolved. One of my best memories was Jack Morris and John Smoltz in Game 7, 0-0 in the tenth inning. Something that will never, ever happen again. No memorable games. “Hey remember we saw that pitcher’s duel with four guys from the home team and three from the visiting team? That was great.” Ugh. You are 100% right, it just sucks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted November 5 Share Posted November 5 14 hours ago, greg775 said: 225 wins will not get Greinke in unless a ton of starters in the 200-220 range get in before him. No way on Scherzer at 216 wins. And no way on Verlander at 260. Scherzer and Verlander have won three Cy Young awards a piece. Only four pitchers have won more. WTF? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 9 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: Agree with what you say but it sucks. You’re going to see guys with 150 wins and no shutouts in the Hall of Fame and nobody will be able to figure out why unless they have a computer in front of them. I hate how the pitching game has evolved. One of my best memories was Jack Morris and John Smoltz in Game 7, 0-0 in the tenth inning. Something that will never, ever happen again. No memorable games. “Hey remember we saw that pitcher’s duel with four guys from the home team and three from the visiting team? That was great.” Ugh. You are 100% right, it just sucks. Even Britt Burns went a full nine innings vs Orioles in the playoff game four. He might have even given up the homer in the 10th. Now ... LOL, five inning wonders. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 18 hours ago, WestEddy said: I seem to remember reading that as the Phillies fell out of first place in 1964, Dick Allen became a focus of the press, even though the guy hit .419/.471/.710 from 9/18 through the end of the season. I thought Gene Mauch was the focus of the press in 1964. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 22 hours ago, Falstaff said: In 1963 Dick Allen was the first black professional baseball player in the state of Arkansas. This might sound unbelievable but add in he did this at the height of the Civil Rights Movement. If you want to look at Allen's career stats and discount him because he didn't hit 500 homers or 3,000 hits, I think you have to understand the struggles he went through in Arkansas and then Philly for being born black and how that impacted hiss baseball career. if I had a vote Dick Allen would have already been in the HoF. Dick Allen's Journey - BallNine Allen was scarred by his experience in Arkansas. He is still the most talented player I had ever seen play on the White Sox. He had his issues and under-achieved. I think he enjoyed his experience in Chicago. He really should have a better career. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 47 minutes ago, Highland said: Allen was scarred by his experience in Arkansas. He is still the most talented player I had ever seen play on the White Sox. He had his issues and under-achieved. I think he enjoyed his experience in Chicago. He really should have a better career. Dick Allen was King of Chicago in 1972. That iconic Sports Illustrated cover juggling baseballs with a cigarette dangling from his lips. https://metalposters.com/featured/chicago-white-sox-dick-allen-june-12-1972-sports-illustrated-cover.html?product=metal-print 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 8 hours ago, greg775 said: Even Britt Burns went a full nine innings vs Orioles in the playoff game four. He might have even given up the homer in the 10th. Now ... LOL, five inning wonders. Burns did go into the 10th and gave up Landrum's home run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Falstaff Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 (edited) 1 hour ago, Highland said: Allen was scarred by his experience in Arkansas. He is still the most talented player I had ever seen play on the White Sox. He had his issues and under-achieved. I think he enjoyed his experience in Chicago. He really should have a better career. In 1967 I was 10 years old, we went on a 2-week family vacation. We drove from Chicago to New Orleans and then to Biloxi Mississippi, Mobile Alabama and Pensacola Florida. I saw firsthand the way blacks were treated and couldn't believe it. I could just imagine a ballplayer like Dick Allen growing up in Pennsylvania and the culture shock he went through and the emotional scars he endured. So many black and brown players before Allen paved the way and are never heard of or talked about, it's sad. 1966 was the year the first Black football player was allowed to play in the SEC. Edited November 6 by Falstaff 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flavum Posted December 3 Share Posted December 3 Mentioned it before, but who gets in is mostly a result of who is on the committee- and then it’s basically fixed on who gets 12 or more to get in. Based on the committee this year… I’ll say Dick Allen and John Donaldson get in. Announcement on Sunday night. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Grinder Posted December 5 Share Posted December 5 Dick is my all time favorite Sox. I read his bio many yrs ago. A great read. Hope he gets in 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted December 5 Share Posted December 5 Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 This is MUST SEE TV. I have no idea where WGN got some of these highlights. My library is extensive but I've never seen some of Dick's game action before that was shown in this. Didn't even know the footage still existed. And WGN must have enhanced the highlights because they look brilliant and crystal clear. Fingers crossed for Dick and Tommy Sunday night: 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 20 hours ago, South Side Fireworks Man said: Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame. Definitely. Great hitter and great poster. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
South Side Fireworks Man Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 9 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: This is MUST SEE TV. I have no idea where WGN got some of these highlights. My library is extensive but I've never seen some of Dick's game action before that was shown in this. Didn't even know the footage still existed. And WGN must have enhanced the highlights because they look brilliant and crystal clear. Fingers crossed for Dick and Tommy Sunday night: I'm in my mid 60s now and don't really get excited over sports figures or athletes anymore. But when I see clips of Dick Allen, it brings back that same thrill as when I was a kid. He was my baseball hero, and to me he will always be the greatest White Sox player of all time. Dick Allen belongs in the Hall of Fame. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 https://www.chicagotribune.com/2024/12/07/chicago-white-sox-dick-allen-hall-of-fame-voting/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 (edited) On 11/6/2024 at 9:10 AM, Lip Man 1 said: Burns did go into the 10th and gave up Landrum's home run. The fact the Sox couldn't get one run in 9 innings that day to force an automatic Game Five victory with Hoyt is one of the most disappointing days the White Sox have experienced. That team was built to win a WS and should have won a World Series. Disgusting to waste BB's performance. Also the biggest baserunning blunder in Sox history if not all of MLB history. Edited December 7 by greg775 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 5 hours ago, greg775 said: The fact the Sox couldn't get one run in 9 innings that day to force an automatic Game Five victory with Hoyt is one of the most disappointing days the White Sox have experienced. That team was built to win a WS and should have won a World Series. Disgusting to waste BB's performance. Also the biggest baserunning blunder in Sox history if not all of MLB history. Fred Merkle says, "hello." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 16 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Agreed. Makes sense to me. Also makes an opening in LF for a younger outfielder (Colas, DeLoach, etc.). I do not believe that any of the young lefties have earned a job, let alone two of them. There will plenty of at bats to go around for 4A types without opening another position for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 8 Share Posted December 8 1 hour ago, Timmy U said: I do not believe that any of the young lefties have earned a job, let alone two of them. There will plenty of at bats to go around for 4A types without opening another position for them. Agreed, but there isn’t much of a reason to watch Benintendi get at bats either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.