Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 30 minutes ago, JoeC said: @Look at Ray Ray Run and I went over this a couple of weeks back. Basically, I think you guys are in agreement. That said, the distinction is that, in Ray Ray's view, guys like Bannister (the coaching staff / development-responsible guys) should let the talent acquisition guys (scouts, GM, analysts, etc.) know the types of player they need, but they shouldn't be in charge of acquiring the players. The talent acquisition guys should know these preferences and tendencies and be able to identify the right players based on the coaches' input, but the acquisitions ultimately need to be made by a group that specializes in it. This is what I get for reading down instead of bottom up. What he said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 3 hours ago, Snopek said: Not sure if you heard, but Getz could've gotten Jake McCarthy instead of Fletcher and Luke Keaschall instead of Vargas. If I took a shot every time he mentioned Luke Keaschall, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted Friday at 04:09 PM Share Posted Friday at 04:09 PM (edited) On 11/6/2024 at 11:05 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said: At no point in Bannister's career has he been dictating the guys he had those higher success rates with. When guys who develop chose the guys they develop, you can very quickly become incredibly narrow minded and singular in focus and the diversity of perspective. Confirmation bias is something that consumes almost anyone that absorbs both roles in any industry. Evaluators and developers require different skill sets. Evaluators, generally speaking, can be much more analytically influenced and should lean into their evaluations and the mean of outcomes, while a developer often-times will see the ceiling of a player. What "I can get out of him." People seem to understand this concept with the GM not being the coach, but for some reason they don't understand the implications are the same down stream. If you're the director of pitching, the TA's job is to identify how you succeed and CONSIDER that in their evaluations as a component of value but it shouldn't drive value or be the key decision component of personnel decision. I did say only when there is no general consensus on which player to trade for or draft among players considered equally talented from the talent evaluators there can be ways to break the tie where certain opinions are given more value than others. It can be the top guy like Bannister, it can be a successful scout who has ID'd good pitchers before or an analytics guy with a good track record of doing the same thing. We're basically splitting hairs since picking young talent and developing it is more difficult in baseball than any other sport. I know heres a lot of emphasis on some coach or coaches along the way who unlock a key that makes a difference but ultimately it may come down to mental or physical maturation from the player along with various tweaks through the trial and error part of coaching . Who can say for example what made Crochet good in 2024 and why he didnt get injured again ? There's no general consensus on it. Among the Getz haters bristling and embarrassed about the loss record we hear Getz and by extension Bannister, who Getz hired,had little or nothing to do with it. It was all Crochet. Bannister has talked at length many times what their plan was to make Crochet a healthy and productive starting pitcher . Besides adding and developing grips & pitches there is a sports management team that made a plan to keep him healthy. Between all these people including Crochet's mental and physical maturation and rehab from injuries it all added up to success this season. You could argue he's a smarter ,bigger stronger version of himself which is what development is all about. Even if you think the previous regime held him back, abused him and Crochet is resentful and bitter about it as some fans are, it all led to where he is now. No one can simplify it down to one thing. Many many things happened on his path . Even if we think Crochet and his agent were wrong to demand an extension because it hurt our baseball sensibilities about being gung ho for winning a championship and team 1st BS you have to look out for yourself in this world . Once you are at your best and in a situation to better contribute to your teams success is the time to be the rah rah guy. We always hear about putting players in a position to succeed .Crochet didn't want to take any chances on being put into a position to fail. He took charge of his own destiny. However Crochet has also been very happy with the whole plan so much which was what led him to do what he did at the trade tradeline. Turns out everyone was so happy and did such a good job it bit them in the ass for a little while. Fans got pissed, they wanted shiny new toys for the Sox and Crochet spoiled the party. Many thought he tanked his value or teams wouldn't want him because he made a "me 1st" power play. Many were wrong. I just don't think it's anything to get hung up on. Go listen to Bannister talk. He's a very bright guy and in touch with modern pitching and player development. Anyone who wants to feel better about Bannister and Katz and educate themselves there are quite a few interviews with him before and after he was hired here . Edited Friday at 04:48 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted Sunday at 12:36 AM Share Posted Sunday at 12:36 AM We shall see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted Sunday at 01:10 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:10 AM (edited) On 11/6/2024 at 1:11 PM, almagest said: If I took a shot every time he mentioned Luke Keaschall, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning. It’s probably just a conspiracy theory and never really happened, so don’t worry. 🤣 Edited Sunday at 01:10 AM by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted Sunday at 01:46 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:46 AM On 11/8/2024 at 8:09 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: I did say only when there is no general consensus on which player to trade for or draft among players considered equally talented from the talent evaluators there can be ways to break the tie where certain opinions are given more value than others. It can be the top guy like Bannister, it can be a successful scout who has ID'd good pitchers before or an analytics guy with a good track record of doing the same thing. We're basically splitting hairs since picking young talent and developing it is more difficult in baseball than any other sport. I know heres a lot of emphasis on some coach or coaches along the way who unlock a key that makes a difference but ultimately it may come down to mental or physical maturation from the player along with various tweaks through the trial and error part of coaching . Who can say for example what made Crochet good in 2024 and why he didnt get injured again ? There's no general consensus on it. Among the Getz haters bristling and embarrassed about the loss record we hear Getz and by extension Bannister, who Getz hired,had little or nothing to do with it. It was all Crochet. Bannister has talked at length many times what their plan was to make Crochet a healthy and productive starting pitcher . Besides adding and developing grips & pitches there is a sports management team that made a plan to keep him healthy. Between all these people including Crochet's mental and physical maturation and rehab from injuries it all added up to success this season. You could argue he's a smarter ,bigger stronger version of himself which is what development is all about. Even if you think the previous regime held him back, abused him and Crochet is resentful and bitter about it as some fans are, it all led to where he is now. No one can simplify it down to one thing. Many many things happened on his path . Even if we think Crochet and his agent were wrong to demand an extension because it hurt our baseball sensibilities about being gung ho for winning a championship and team 1st BS you have to look out for yourself in this world . Once you are at your best and in a situation to better contribute to your teams success is the time to be the rah rah guy. We always hear about putting players in a position to succeed .Crochet didn't want to take any chances on being put into a position to fail. He took charge of his own destiny. However Crochet has also been very happy with the whole plan so much which was what led him to do what he did at the trade tradeline. Turns out everyone was so happy and did such a good job it bit them in the ass for a little while. Fans got pissed, they wanted shiny new toys for the Sox and Crochet spoiled the party. Many thought he tanked his value or teams wouldn't want him because he made a "me 1st" power play. Many were wrong. I just don't think it's anything to get hung up on. Go listen to Bannister talk. He's a very bright guy and in touch with modern pitching and player development. Anyone who wants to feel better about Bannister and Katz and educate themselves there are quite a few interviews with him before and after he was hired here . Those creative writing skills coming in clutch! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted Sunday at 01:47 AM Share Posted Sunday at 01:47 AM 38 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: It’s probably just a conspiracy theory and never really happened, so don’t worry. 🤣 I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the White Sox could’ve gotten LUKE F’IN KEASCHALL instead of Vargas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted Sunday at 03:28 AM Share Posted Sunday at 03:28 AM (edited) 2 hours ago, almagest said: I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the White Sox could’ve gotten LUKE F’IN KEASCHALL instead of Vargas. Yes, they could have if our GM wasn’t a dipshit. Couldn’t send Fedde to the Twins with that additional year cuz he might hurt the Sox playoff chances next year! 🤣 Now we are stuck with watching Vargas for a full season of plate appearances. Exciting!!! 591 PA / .175 AVG / .273 OBP / .312 SLG / .586 OPS Vargas blows and so does Getz. Breathe it in and accept it. Edited Sunday at 04:01 AM by WhiteSox2023 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted Sunday at 04:16 PM Share Posted Sunday at 04:16 PM On 11/5/2024 at 11:20 PM, caulfield12 said: Cue Eloy "Hi, mom!" GIF. Jimenez headed back to the Southside to be fixed up. Haha, that is the first thing I thought of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snopek Posted Sunday at 04:55 PM Share Posted Sunday at 04:55 PM 13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said: Yes, they could have if our GM wasn’t a dipshit. Couldn’t send Fedde to the Twins with that additional year cuz he might hurt the Sox playoff chances next year! 🤣 Now we are stuck with watching Vargas for a full season of plate appearances. Exciting!!! 591 PA / .175 AVG / .273 OBP / .312 SLG / .586 OPS Vargas blows and so does Getz. Breathe it in and accept it. My man you’re becoming a parody of yourself. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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