Ryan Fuller Hired as Director of Hitting

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

30 minutes ago, JoeC said:

@Look at Ray Ray Run and I went over this a couple of weeks back.

Basically, I think you guys are in agreement. That said, the distinction is that, in Ray Ray's view, guys like Bannister (the coaching staff / development-responsible guys) should let the talent acquisition guys (scouts, GM, analysts, etc.) know the types of player they need, but they shouldn't be in charge of acquiring the players.

The talent acquisition guys should know these preferences and tendencies and be able to identify the right players based on the coaches' input, but the acquisitions ultimately need to be made by a group that specializes in it.

This is what I get for reading down instead of bottom up.

What he said.

[almagest]

3 hours ago, Snopek said:

Not sure if you heard, but Getz could've gotten Jake McCarthy instead of Fletcher and Luke Keaschall instead of Vargas.

If I took a shot every time he mentioned Luke Keaschall, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/6/2024 at 11:05 AM, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

At no point in Bannister's career has he been dictating the guys he had those higher success rates with. When guys who develop chose the guys they develop, you can very quickly become incredibly narrow minded and singular in focus and the diversity of perspective. Confirmation bias is something that consumes almost anyone that absorbs both roles in any industry. Evaluators and developers require different skill sets. Evaluators, generally speaking, can be much more analytically influenced and should lean into their evaluations and the mean of outcomes, while a developer often-times will see the ceiling of a player. What "I can get out of him."

People seem to understand this concept with the GM not being the coach, but for some reason they don't understand the implications are the same down stream. If you're the director of pitching, the TA's job is to identify how you succeed and CONSIDER that in their evaluations as a component of value but it shouldn't drive value or be the key decision component of personnel decision.

I did say only when there is no general consensus on which player to trade for or draft among players considered equally talented from the talent  evaluators there can be ways to break the tie where certain opinions are given more value than others.

It can be the top guy like Bannister, it can be a successful scout who has ID'd good pitchers before or an analytics guy with a good track record of doing the same thing.

We're basically splitting hairs since picking young talent and developing it is more difficult in baseball than any other sport.

I know heres a lot of emphasis on some coach or coaches along the way who unlock a key that makes a difference but ultimately it may come down to  mental or physical maturation from the player along with various tweaks through the trial and error part of coaching .

Who can say for example what made Crochet good in 2024 and why he didnt get injured again ?

There's no general consensus on it. Among the Getz haters bristling and embarrassed about the loss record we hear Getz  and by extension Bannister,  who Getz hired,had little or nothing to do with it. It was all Crochet. 

Bannister has talked at length many times what their plan was to make Crochet a healthy and productive starting pitcher . Besides adding and developing grips & pitches there is a sports management team that made a plan to keep him healthy. Between all these people including Crochet's mental and physical maturation and rehab from injuries it all added up to success this season. You could argue he's a smarter ,bigger stronger version of himself which is what development is all about.

Even if you think the previous regime held him back, abused him and Crochet is resentful and bitter about it as some fans are,  it all led  to where he is now. No one can simplify it down to one thing.  Many many things happened on his path . Even if we think Crochet and his agent were wrong to demand an extension because it hurt our baseball sensibilities about being gung ho for winning a championship and team 1st BS you have to look out for yourself in this world . Once you are at your best and in a situation to better contribute to your teams success is the time to be the rah rah guy.

We always hear about putting players in a position to succeed .Crochet didn't want to take any chances on being put into a position to fail. He took charge of his own destiny. However Crochet has also been very happy with the whole plan so much which was what led him to do what he did at the trade tradeline. Turns out everyone was so happy and did such a good job it bit them in the ass for a little while.

Fans got pissed, they wanted shiny new toys for the Sox and Crochet spoiled the party. Many thought he tanked his value or teams wouldn't want him because he made a "me 1st" power play. Many were wrong.

I just don't think it's anything to get hung up on. Go listen to Bannister talk. He's a very bright guy and in touch with modern pitching and player development.

Anyone who wants to feel better about Bannister and Katz and educate themselves there are quite a few interviews with him before and after he was hired here .

 

Edited November 8 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Soxfest]

We shall see

[WhiteSox2023]

On 11/6/2024 at 1:11 PM, almagest said:

If I took a shot every time he mentioned Luke Keaschall, I'd be dead of alcohol poisoning.

It’s probably just a conspiracy theory and never really happened, so don’t worry.  🤣

Edited November 10 by WhiteSox2023

[hi8is]

On 11/8/2024 at 8:09 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I did say only when there is no general consensus on which player to trade for or draft among players considered equally talented from the talent  evaluators there can be ways to break the tie where certain opinions are given more value than others.

It can be the top guy like Bannister, it can be a successful scout who has ID'd good pitchers before or an analytics guy with a good track record of doing the same thing.

We're basically splitting hairs since picking young talent and developing it is more difficult in baseball than any other sport.

I know heres a lot of emphasis on some coach or coaches along the way who unlock a key that makes a difference but ultimately it may come down to  mental or physical maturation from the player along with various tweaks through the trial and error part of coaching .

Who can say for example what made Crochet good in 2024 and why he didnt get injured again ?

There's no general consensus on it. Among the Getz haters bristling and embarrassed about the loss record we hear Getz  and by extension Bannister,  who Getz hired,had little or nothing to do with it. It was all Crochet. 

Bannister has talked at length many times what their plan was to make Crochet a healthy and productive starting pitcher . Besides adding and developing grips & pitches there is a sports management team that made a plan to keep him healthy. Between all these people including Crochet's mental and physical maturation and rehab from injuries it all added up to success this season. You could argue he's a smarter ,bigger stronger version of himself which is what development is all about.

Even if you think the previous regime held him back, abused him and Crochet is resentful and bitter about it as some fans are,  it all led  to where he is now. No one can simplify it down to one thing.  Many many things happened on his path . Even if we think Crochet and his agent were wrong to demand an extension because it hurt our baseball sensibilities about being gung ho for winning a championship and team 1st BS you have to look out for yourself in this world . Once you are at your best and in a situation to better contribute to your teams success is the time to be the rah rah guy.

We always hear about putting players in a position to succeed .Crochet didn't want to take any chances on being put into a position to fail. He took charge of his own destiny. However Crochet has also been very happy with the whole plan so much which was what led him to do what he did at the trade tradeline. Turns out everyone was so happy and did such a good job it bit them in the ass for a little while.

Fans got pissed, they wanted shiny new toys for the Sox and Crochet spoiled the party. Many thought he tanked his value or teams wouldn't want him because he made a "me 1st" power play. Many were wrong.

I just don't think it's anything to get hung up on. Go listen to Bannister talk. He's a very bright guy and in touch with modern pitching and player development.

Anyone who wants to feel better about Bannister and Katz and educate themselves there are quite a few interviews with him before and after he was hired here .

 

Those creative writing skills coming in clutch!

[almagest]

38 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It’s probably just a conspiracy theory and never really happened, so don’t worry.  🤣

I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the White Sox could’ve gotten LUKE F’IN KEASCHALL instead of Vargas.

[WhiteSox2023]

2 hours ago, almagest said:

I’m not sure if you’ve heard, but the White Sox could’ve gotten LUKE F’IN KEASCHALL instead of Vargas.

Yes, they could have if our GM wasn’t a dipshit.  Couldn’t send Fedde to the Twins with that additional year cuz he might hurt the Sox playoff chances next year!  🤣

Now we are stuck with watching Vargas for a full season of plate appearances.  Exciting!!!

591 PA / .175 AVG / .273 OBP / .312 SLG / .586 OPS

Vargas blows and so does Getz.  Breathe it in and accept it.

Edited November 10 by WhiteSox2023

[wegner]

On 11/5/2024 at 11:20 PM, caulfield12 said:

Cue Eloy "Hi, mom!" GIF.

Jimenez headed back to the Southside to be fixed up.

Haha, that is the first thing I thought of.

[Snopek]

13 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yes, they could have if our GM wasn’t a dipshit.  Couldn’t send Fedde to the Twins with that additional year cuz he might hurt the Sox playoff chances next year!  🤣

Now we are stuck with watching Vargas for a full season of plate appearances.  Exciting!!!

591 PA / .175 AVG / .273 OBP / .312 SLG / .586 OPS

Vargas blows and so does Getz.  Breathe it in and accept it.

My man you’re becoming a parody of yourself.

[almagest]

 

[Boopa1219]

I’m excited to see the impact he has on players like Wolkow, Perez, Bonemer, Zavala, and Albertus. 

[southsider2k5]

I hope this dude is a fraction as good as some of you are telling us he is.  Though I can't help but thinking if he really was that good, why did Baltimore just fire him.

[PaleAleSox]

I thought his interview with Chuck yesterday was very insightful. He seemed to explain things in a very teachable way. Really hope it pans out. I also like, in general, the younger minds that are coming in (this hire, Venable, bench coach).

[Tnetennba]

On 11/18/2024 at 10:32 AM, southsider2k5 said:

I hope this dude is a fraction as good as some of you are telling us he is.  Though I can't help but thinking if he really was that good, why did Baltimore just fire him.

Someone's head had to roll after another postseason flop.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Someone's head had to roll after another postseason flop.

 

More or less true. Not even sure he was fired. Sox may have just hired him away from the O's. Before that he had been climbing the coaching ladder fairly fast with them.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

More or less true. Not even sure he was fired. Sox may have just hired him away from the O's. Before that he had been climbing the coaching ladder fairly fast with them.

 

Fuller was dumped, along with bench coach Fredi González, Major League coach José Hernández, and co-hitting coach Matt Borgschulte.  They were probably the fall guys for the Orioles offense crapping the bed in the postseason.

https://www.mlb.com/news/orioles-making-coaching-staff-changes-for-2025

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

11 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Fuller was dumped, along with bench coach Fredi González, Major League coach José Hernández, and co-hitting coach Matt Borgschulte.  They were probably the fall guys for the Orioles offense crapping the bed in the postseason.

https://www.mlb.com/news/orioles-making-coaching-staff-changes-for-2025

This is where we have differences. There's nothing in the article that says dumped or fired. I believe it says " will not be returning" which was my reason for questioning if he was fired, which you did not clear up.

[WhiteSox2023]

39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This is where we have differences. There's nothing in the article that says dumped or fired. I believe it says " will not be returning" which was my reason for questioning if he was fired, which you did not clear up.

Do you believe everything you read?  When a VP of a Fortune 500 company “retires after years of service” and has another job a month or two later, do you really believe they weren’t told to get lost?  I have seen it more times than I can count in the 8 years at my current company.  It’s called reading between the lines.  The Orioles are just doing a solid to the coaches that they got rid of so there is no negative connotation, but being “let go” means fired.  Afterall, if the Orioles front office thought those guys did such a great job, why would they let them go?

You literally agreed with @Tnetennba above that heads had to roll after another Orioles postseason flop — you replied, “more or less true”.  But now you are disagreeing with me over semantics?  Yes, they were fired…  in the nicest way possible — “let go.”  I provided you with the article.  Sorry, I can’t clear up gullibility.

Edited November 20 by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

23 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Do you believe everything you read?  When a VP of a Fortune 500 company “retires after years of service” and has another job a month or two later, do you really believe they weren’t told to get lost?  I have seen it more times than I can count in the 8 years at my current company.  It’s called reading between the lines.  The Orioles are just doing a solid to the coaches that they got rid of so there is no negative connotation, but being “let go” means fired.  Afterall, if the Orioles front office thought those guys did such a great job, why would they let them go?

I. I believe if it doesn't say fired then maybe Fuller wasnt fired.

I don't fill in the blank with what I think happened. It just as likely that he was hired away by the Sox. I believe there was anther Oriole source that said that could be the case. I also checked several Orioles vlogs .

If you want to believe Fuller was fired go right ahead. Everything written or voiced seems to not know for sure so I'll believe that. When you start making things up is when you misinform people . Well I just assume he was fired because I don't believe everyone reporting on it .

You put let go in quotes .Again did it say " let go " in the article you sent linked or are you now misquoting along with reading between the lines.

Why do you dismiss the possibility that he left to go to the Sox ? What was the time period between Fuller not returning and the Sox hiring him ?

Edited November 20 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

13 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I. I believe if it doesn't say fired then maybe Fuller wasnt fired.

I don't fill in the blank with what I think happened. It just as likely that he was hired away by the Sox. I believe there was anther Oriole source that said that could be the case. I also checked several Orioles vlogs .

If you want to believe Fuller was fired go right ahead. Everything written or voiced seems to not know for sure so I'll believe that. When you start making things up is when you misinform people . Well I just assume he was fired because I don't believe everyone reporting on it .

 

The real meat on this bone is Fuller. I don’t know what happened to this man. Early in his career, he preached patience at the plate with power mixed in, so what changed this year?

This might get a little tinfoil-hatty, but I fully believe either Fuller or Elias wanted to implement a change in the approach of the organization’s hitters.

They wanted to get more balls into the air and hit the ball harder; here is the problem: that doesn’t work for all hitters. Take Rutschman and Jackson Holliday. Holliday wasn’t a power hitter in the minors; he wasn’t the number-one prospect because of his power. Everything else made him unique, so why does it look like he is swinging for the fences on every swing and now has a massive hole in his swing that wasn’t there last year? Adley, like Holliday, was a line-drive hitter with a patient approach, so why did he pop up so much this year? Again, I don’t know what was done with these hitters. Fuller could have just been doing what he was told, and it seems weird for him to change his approach that much. Again, he was a guy who preached patience, so why did it change this year?

I don’t have the answers; no fan does, and the only ones who do are in the Warehouse. In Fuller’s defense, he didn’t take one at-bat for this team; he might not have been the one to spearhead this new approach, instead simply following what Elias told him to do. He is gone now, and Elias wouldn’t have fired him without cause. One thing we’ve learned about Mike is that doesn’t just fire people to appease a loud majority of angry fans (if he did, Hyde wouldn’t still be here). There was a reason why Fuller was let go, and maybe it was because there were just too many cooks in the kitchen. The Orioles technically had three hitting coaches last year. Three! Most teams have one, so maybe that was the impetus here. Perhaps players were getting overloaded with data, and the message from the Warehouse to the player was getting lost in translation.

 

https://eutawstreetreport.com/ryan-fuller/

 

Seems pretty clear that O's fans believe he was fired...or certainly pushed out, with the other two hitting instructors remaining in place.

Luckily, the White Sox don't have many hitters like Rutschman, Holliday (or James McCann, one of the biggest hitting "culprits" in the postseason)...

Edited November 20 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

24 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I. I believe if it doesn't say fired then maybe Fuller wasnt fired.

I don't fill in the blank with what I think happened. It just as likely that he was hired away by the Sox. I believe there was anther Oriole source that said that could be the case. I also checked several Orioles vlogs .

If you want to believe Fuller was fired go right ahead. Everything written or voiced seems to not know for sure so I'll believe that. When you start making things up is when you misinform people . Well I just assume he was fired because I don't believe everyone reporting on it .

You put let go in quotes .Again did it say " let go " in the article you sent linked or are you now misquoting along with reading between the lines.

Why do you dismiss the possibility that he left to go to the Sox ? What was the time period between Fuller not returning and the Sox hiring him ?

Once again, make your own judgment.  It seems pretty obvious to me what happened, but you do you.  @Kyyle23 was right — not worth engaging.

https://www.masnsports.com/blog/fuller

Quote

The Orioles are making multiple changes to their coaching staff following their elimination in the Wild Card series.

According to a source, the club isn’t bringing back co-hitting coach Ryan Fuller, bench coach Fredi González and major league coach José Hernández. The search begins for their replacements.

Fuller served as full-season hitting coordinator and Double-A Bowie’s hitting coach in 2021 before his promotion to the Orioles. The offense slumped in the second half this season, batting .246/.319/.412 after the break, .238/.307 /.395 over the last two months and struggling to produce with runners in scoring position. Injuries to Jordan Westburg and Ramón Urías were contributing factors.

The lull carried into the playoffs. The Orioles scored one run in the two losses to Kansas City that resulted in their second consecutive sweep.

Edited November 20 by WhiteSox2023

[Boopa1219]

Know what’s crazy?

All those guys would still be with the Orioles if only Elias got another quality starter.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

 

The real meat on this bone is Fuller. I don’t know what happened to this man. Early in his career, he preached patience at the plate with power mixed in, so what changed this year?

This might get a little tinfoil-hatty, but I fully believe either Fuller or Elias wanted to implement a change in the approach of the organization’s hitters.

They wanted to get more balls into the air and hit the ball harder; here is the problem: that doesn’t work for all hitters. Take Rutschman and Jackson Holliday. Holliday wasn’t a power hitter in the minors; he wasn’t the number-one prospect because of his power. Everything else made him unique, so why does it look like he is swinging for the fences on every swing and now has a massive hole in his swing that wasn’t there last year? Adley, like Holliday, was a line-drive hitter with a patient approach, so why did he pop up so much this year? Again, I don’t know what was done with these hitters. Fuller could have just been doing what he was told, and it seems weird for him to change his approach that much. Again, he was a guy who preached patience, so why did it change this year?

I don’t have the answers; no fan does, and the only ones who do are in the Warehouse. In Fuller’s defense, he didn’t take one at-bat for this team; he might not have been the one to spearhead this new approach, instead simply following what Elias told him to do. He is gone now, and Elias wouldn’t have fired him without cause. One thing we’ve learned about Mike is that doesn’t just fire people to appease a loud majority of angry fans (if he did, Hyde wouldn’t still be here). There was a reason why Fuller was let go, and maybe it was because there were just too many cooks in the kitchen. The Orioles technically had three hitting coaches last year. Three! Most teams have one, so maybe that was the impetus here. Perhaps players were getting overloaded with data, and the message from the Warehouse to the player was getting lost in translation.

 

https://eutawstreetreport.com/ryan-fuller/

 

Seems pretty clear that O's fans believe he was fired...or certainly pushed out, with the other two hitting instructors remaining in place.

Luckily, the White Sox don't have many hitters like Rutschman, Holliday (or James McCann, one of the biggest hitting "culprits" in the postseason)...

I'm not saying he couldn't have been fired I'm just saying it's speculaton. What you're quoting is speculation.The guy says so himself. "This might get a little tinfoil hatty", so your conclusion is  most Orioles fan believe he was fired ? Is that you saying that Caulfield ? If so how did you reach that conclusion ? Based on  admitted "tin foil hatty " speculation ?

Edited November 20 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'm not saying he couldn't have been fired I'm just saying it's speculaton. What you're quoting is speculation.The guy says so himself. "This might get a little tinfoil hatty", so your conclusion is  most Orioles fan believe he was fired ? Is that you saying that Caulfield ? If so how did you reach that conclusion ? Based on  admitted "tin foil hatty " speculation ?

“On Friday, we got our answer to what they found, as bench coaches Fredi Gonzales and Jose Hernandez were let go, along with the big one, co-hitting Coach Ryan Fuller.

I have nothing for Hernández. I have yet to learn if he was let go or simply chose to move on. However, Gonzales is surprising to me. He was Hyde’s right-hand man, and it makes me wonder if he is leaving for a better job elsewhere. When Hyde would be ejected (no, it wasn’t often enough), Fredi filled in as stand-in manager, so this is quite surprising. We can only assume they wanted a new voice, or Fredi is eyeing a promotion elsewhere.”

 

O’s Part Ways With Several, Including Co-Hitting Coach Ryan Fuller

• by Jared Pinder

·

• October 14, 2024
• 10:37 am