southsider2k5 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 10 minutes ago, Highland said: No, keep Crochet and try to build around him. Trading him seems to me like constant rebuilding that leads nowhere. Are they trading him to get value or are they trading him to save money? In the future how many more budget moves are made while the team goes nowhere. Sorry, I've been a fan for a long time and have had enough of rebuilding. This team should be keeping and developing talent instead of trading it away. I will not assume that they will get a good return. You willing to bet $200 to $300 million on getting better without the assets from Crochet that we can make a playoff run by the time a long term contract runs out... or his health runs out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 This sucks. We all know the Sox won't sign Crochet to a long term deal, which means the best course of action is to trade him this off season to maximize the return. The problem is, even the best return probably won't be enough. They can't let him walk for nothing after the 2026 season, and the team won't be good enough over the next two seasons for Crochet to make a difference. So, I'm bracing for a trade this off season where the Sox get back a package that will at best be meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: You willing to bet $200 to $300 million on getting better without the assets from Crochet that we can make a playoff run by the time a long term contract runs out... or his health runs out? Good luck getting $60-75 million for ANYONE out of JR...he is heading in the direction of selling. There's just no way the political winds shift in his favor with such a diminished, almost crippled, franchise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Y2Jimmy0 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said: Who were the Phillies top guys who were agreed to? I've actually heard that Painter was in play and Crawford was a target. Levine has said repeatedly that they couldn't agree on a third player. I have no idea if that means Painter/Crawford were the first two though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: They were close with the Phillies at the deadline from what I've heard and it sounds Aiden Miller was a real sticking point. Dodgers talks involved Josue de Paula and River Ryan. The White Sox decided to hold obviously. I'd be really surprised if he's not moved this off-season. Good to hear we were targeting those 2 at the very least (Miller and Paula) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 Even in the ideal situation where Crochet stays healthy and productive for years, this calculus doesn't change. 1. The White Sox have clear payroll limitations. Crochet would be ~30% of their projected payroll the next couple years if extended. That is money that could be used somewhere else. 2. The White Sox system is bereft of talent across the board. They are limited in what they can do to fix this through the draft. Bringing in players, even players who are a couple years away, via trades, is basically their only way to make a dent in this problem. The money spent on Crochet can help with this also, if people who are brought in are later traded for low-level minor leaguers. They shouldn't take a crappy deal for Crochet, they have the option to hold him to the trade deadline. However, they are a worse team spending $200 million to extend Crochet than they are moving Crochet and having both a return for him and more money to spend. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 10 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I've actually heard that Painter was in play and Crawford was a target. Levine has said repeatedly that they couldn't agree on a third player. I have no idea if that means Painter/Crawford were the first two though. If that were true, the 3rd piece could be inconsequential to me honestly. Painter would've been a wild get. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 35 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: I've actually heard that Painter was in play and Crawford was a target. Levine has said repeatedly that they couldn't agree on a third player. I have no idea if that means Painter/Crawford were the first two though. If those were the first two, I doubt Getz would have quibbled over the third prospect. I doubt the offer was that good (Painter and Crawford). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 27 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said: If that were true, the 3rd piece could be inconsequential to me honestly. Painter would've been a wild get. Exactly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: Another interesting quote suggests we were pretty close to a deal last deadline PHI would be a great match. LAD would be horrible. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 9 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: PHI would be a great match. LAD would be horrible. Philly would be intriguing to me because they definitely have the resources to make a deal done, they would be highly motivated given that they've been in the playoffs but haven't finished the job, and they have a pretty substantial payroll and are likely already in multi-year taxpayer territory so a cheap guy could be extra useful to them as they could use money elsewhere. That said, Philly seems to have a habit of making decisions and getting things done, particularly with their rotation. They might have overspent on Nola last year but got him done. They didn't let Wheeler get to FA, and when they originally signed him it was early in the offseason. Trea Turner signed at the winter meetings. Trying to wait and hoping to negotiate through leaks to make a better offer appear probably won't work with them, if Dombrowski gets told no at an offer he is willing to make, he probably moves on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 Cubs seem like an ideal match for both. Cubs want TOR pitching, and they have an absurd amount of position prospects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Good luck getting $60-75 million for ANYONE out of JR...he is heading in the direction of selling. There's just no way the political winds shift in his favor with such a diminished, almost crippled, franchise. Some would argue the bolded point including recently in an interview Tony LaRussa. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Cubs seem like an ideal match for both. Cubs want TOR pitching, and they have an absurd amount of position prospects. I agree, this would be my hope. If i'm them though - crochet would not be 1a and I think that may hold for market as a whole. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 15 minutes ago, fathom said: Cubs seem like an ideal match for both. Cubs want TOR pitching, and they have an absurd amount of position prospects. Do you think they would be willing to take on Benintendi's contract? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 1 hour ago, Snopek said: Keeping him is not a realistic option with JR, therefore he has to be traded. It sucks, but such is a life as a Sox fan. I'm torn. JR will be 89 in a few months. Yes the Sox need offensive help .Trying to figure out the next competitive window and saying a 25 year old doesn't fit into it is really weird .He'd need an extension of course but a rebuilding team starting at ground zero needs to have a strength to operate from. Right now starting pitching and with some failed starters converting to relief like Peyton Pallette or others pitching in general can be a very good strength. I don't know if JR passing away will make things better .However I'm tired of thinking Crochet will get hurt. Treat him like the asset he currently is. I want to see great things for Garrett Nolan Crochet with the Sox. There are no fast answers to even getting to .500 now but you have to start accumulating young talent and keeping it. Maybe Crochet is dead set on becoming a FA and if that's the case then sure trade him but I'd be spreading rumors and making a serious, if only in words, push to resign him and talking about the way back to respectability is through our biggest strength right now. Let teams think he'll be unavailable. When you're desperate you don't get as much. I want to see "White Sox Making a Serious Bid To Extend Crochet" rumors flying. None of this "we tried but we failed" BS that deflates the fans. Resign the dude fast and build some momentum for the 20th Anniversary of 2005. Give the fans some hope. I don't care if he's traded after he gets extended. Sox need to create some positive buzz in the fanbase and that always starts with getting or retaining good players. Pitching will keep you in games. See what Jose Iglesias wants to have a starting role. Roberts needs to not feel isolated .A veteran Cuban player who has always been a great fielder and has found ways to improve his hitting will perhaps help Robert regain his form and have a strong 1st half. At this point I'd prefer to trafe Robert over Crochet. It opens up more money and he's had just too many serious injuries. Let's face it some part of the roster is going to have to suffer and it's going to be hitting because this is going to take some time . But having one strength gives you more talent and thus more tradable assets while keeping you in more games where even a few good players popping balls over the fence with a few guys who can take walks on base will get you some wins and let the young pitchers develop in the majors while hitting develops in the minors. With Crochet there's less need to rush Schultz and Hagen Smith. Withe a great 1st half and an extension Crochet can actually increase his value. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 15 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Do you think they would be willing to take on Benintendi's contract? No shot 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 18 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Maybe Crochet is dead set on becoming a FA and if that's the case then sure trade him but I'd be spreading rumors and making a serious, if only in words, push to resign him and talking about the way back to respectability is through our biggest strength right now. Let teams think he'll be unavailable. When you're desperate you don't get as much. I want to see "White Sox Making a Serious Bid To Extend Crochet" I think Garret Crochet is dead set on getting paid a fair contract, and after how he has been treated in his career I totally understand that. THat's how he acted this season, if the White Sox want to pay him a fair contract then he would consider it. A fair contract, for a starter who could genuinely be an all star multiple times during the contract, would be well over $200 million at this point. If the White Sox don't make that kind of offer, then it's not a serious bid. If they make an offer like Strasburg's final contract, that's both a serious offer and one that would get Crochet's side's attention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 2 hours ago, Highland said: No, keep Crochet and try to build around him. Trading him seems to me like constant rebuilding that leads nowhere. Are they trading him to get value or are they trading him to save money? In the future how many more budget moves are made while the team goes nowhere. Sorry, I've been a fan for a long time and have had enough of rebuilding. This team should be keeping and developing talent instead of trading it away. I will not assume that they will get a good return. Except how do we build around him? How do we acquire foundational pieces to go with him? It is easy to say you don't want perpetual rebuilding. No one actually wants that. But building around him is a fools errand when the org refuses to do what it takes to actually build properly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: I think Garret Crochet is dead set on getting paid a fair contract, and after how he has been treated in his career I totally understand that. THat's how he acted this season, if the White Sox want to pay him a fair contract then he would consider it. A fair contract, for a starter who could genuinely be an all star multiple times during the contract, would be well over $200 million at this point. If the White Sox don't make that kind of offer, then it's not a serious bid. If they make an offer like Strasburg's final contract, that's both a serious offer and one that would get Crochet's side's attention. Dude is set to be a free agent at like 27 with very limited innings on his arm. I don't know if I would completely say this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted November 6 Author Share Posted November 6 38 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Do you think they would be willing to take on Benintendi's contract? Every time I gain the slightest bit of optimism about Getz, Harold pops in with this godforsaken idea that Chris must be pondering. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Every time I gain the slightest bit of optimism about Getz, Harold pops in with this godforsaken idea that Chris must be pondering. Yup. It's scary. It's like he's using this forum as a sounding board for the worst ideas to come out of this FO. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Every time I gain the slightest bit of optimism about Getz, Harold pops in with this godforsaken idea that Chris must be pondering. Saving JR money is his first priority. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said: They were close with the Phillies at the deadline from what I've heard and it sounds Aiden Miller was a real sticking point. Dodgers talks involved Josue de Paula and River Ryan. The White Sox decided to hold obviously. I'd be really surprised if he's not moved this off-season. Red Sox - Roman Anthony, Kyle Teel, Marcelo Mayer (1 of them) Dodgers - Josue De Paula Phillies - Aiden Miller Whomever they trade him to, those are the musts in any trade. I think the Phillies considering Dombrowski's hunger to win and them completely falling on their face in the playoffs, this one would be the most realistic. Either way Chris Getz has set himself up really well this offseason to move him, what he can't do though is take an underwhelming package just because you feel you have to move him like he did with the Dylan Cease deal Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted November 6 Share Posted November 6 51 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: Do you think they would be willing to take on Benintendi's contract? So do they have a plan to sign ANYTHING this offseason or will it literally just be subtractions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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