Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 (edited) So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain. Edited November 13 by Look at Ray Ray Run 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain. Teams don't trade top 10/20ish prospects hardly ever now. Take the best possible deal ever. If this were to happen with Painter as a headliner, I would bet there would be a few prospect trades this off season. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 10 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain. No, we’re hoping we trade him because we are realistic about ownership and understand they have no chance of signing Crochet in two years if he’s anywhere near as good as he was in 2024. There’s a difference between reality and fantasy land that you seem to be living in. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Moooton Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Seems like whether he should or shouldn’t be traded is an irrelevant point to argue. He’s going to be traded. The logical discussion is what for? 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GGajewski18 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: No, we’re hoping we trade him because we are realistic about ownership and understand they have no chance of signing Crochet in two years if he’s anywhere near as good as he was in 2024. There’s a difference between reality and fantasy land that you seem to be living in. Right. This isn't hard to figure out. Crochet has two years left and Jerry won't pay him. Whereas, Painter (if in deal) would have 6/7 years of control Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 52 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Crochet's lack of innings is a good thing, not a bad thing. What % weight are you putting on Garrett Crochet's injury risk compared to any other pitcher - I would guess it's too much based on what you're saying. Crochet's thrown limited innings post opp AND he's changed the way he pitches. Right now, the injury risk for Crochet is a massive unknown and with any form of uncertainty, it's just as likely he reverts to the league average than otherwise. Understanding that from a statistical standpoint, there's no reason not to then approach Crochet as any other available 25 year old arm. Benefit Crochet has going for him is the limited innings. Similar to the comments I made on this board about Zach Wheeler 5 years ago when he was a FA. Difference was Wheeler had two years post-opp under his belt while Crochet has one AND Wheeler had been a starter in the minors. Crochet was 3rd in baseball in FIP, 1st in xFIP, 8th in WAR, 2nd in WAR/9 (behind Sale lol), 1st in K-rate, 15th in walk rate. He wore down a little bit, but still nearly touched 150 innings. Crochet would be on my list of 3 arms to take over the next 5 years in all of baseball. You want the White Sox to trade him so they can trade down again, just like they did with Sale. 25 million dollars is nothing in MLB. The White Sox have 66 million committed for next year and under 40 million the year after. Paying Garrett Crochet should have no impact on the team. This is entertainment and they're supposed to be keeping star talent, not always thinking about how they can move on from them. And sorry, wasn't calling you a dumb ass. Just hate the idea of trading unicorn skill sets. The last one we traded is about to win a Cy Young after already winning a World Series and we got no where near his value returned. Isn't the best indicator of future injury, a past injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: No, we’re hoping we trade him because we are realistic about ownership and understand they have no chance of signing Crochet in two years if he’s anywhere near as good as he was in 2024. There’s a difference between reality and fantasy land that you seem to be living in. We keep bringing up ownership, and I really don't think that even enters into it. If the greatest team owner in history bought the White Sox tonight, they're not going to be "competitive" before.... what, 2028-2029? So we sign Crochet for 6 years, and we'll be competitive for his last 3 because no other good pitchers will ever come along? I've been bullish on Crochet coming back from injury, being fine, physically, and doing well, all along. I do think it would be a bit foolish to re-up him for most of the next decade until we see him barrel through most of 2025 without incident. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: Isn't the best indicator of future injury, a past injury? To an extent, yes. We also have a lot of data on TJ injuries now and recurrence rates and frequencies. All things considered, I'd trust Crochet over the next 5 years about as much as I'd trust any average arm over that period. There's risked tied to all, but Crochet is immediate post-opp and actually had a lot of very positive signs last year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 27 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: No, we’re hoping we trade him because we are realistic about ownership and understand they have no chance of signing Crochet in two years if he’s anywhere near as good as he was in 2024. There’s a difference between reality and fantasy land that you seem to be living in. 16 minutes ago, GGajewski18 said: Right. This isn't hard to figure out. Crochet has two years left and Jerry won't pay him. Whereas, Painter (if in deal) would have 6/7 years of control So please in both your future proposals, ask for lesser talent back then you'd want because we have a bad GM. You can't tell me you're being reasonable with your expectations because of ownership and then propose trade offers that don't consider the failure of your GM. Or wait... let me guess. It's totally fine for you to live in fantasy land when it comes to trades? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 13 minutes ago, WestEddy said: We keep bringing up ownership, and I really don't think that even enters into it. If the greatest team owner in history bought the White Sox tonight, they're not going to be "competitive" before.... what, 2028-2029? So we sign Crochet for 6 years, and we'll be competitive for his last 3 because no other good pitchers will ever come along? I've been bullish on Crochet coming back from injury, being fine, physically, and doing well, all along. I do think it would be a bit foolish to re-up him for most of the next decade until we see him barrel through most of 2025 without incident. 2028-2029? How old are you? If you think the Sox aren't going to compete again (even with great ownership) until 2028-2029 why are you even still here? Sheesh. No league requires 6-7 years of awfulness to be competitive. There's zero reason a competent leadership couldn't have the White Sox competitive in the AL Central by 2026. Competitive doesn't mean the best team in the world. It doesn't even mean winning the division, but it means playing competitive baseball into the year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt574 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 If it were me I'd extend Crochet to anchor a potentially really good future rotation involving Schultz, Smith, Thorpe, etc., but we all know that isn't happening so it's sort of pointless to even argue about. There's enough interest in Crochet where even Getz should get a nice haul on paper. The key is obviously landing a couple guys who actually pan out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 2028-2029? How old are you? If you think the Sox aren't going to compete again (even with great ownership) until 2028-2029 why are you even still here? Sheesh. No league requires 6-7 years of awfulness to be competitive. There's zero reason a competent leadership couldn't have the White Sox competitive in the AL Central by 2026. Competitive doesn't mean the best team in the world. It doesn't even mean winning the division, but it means playing competitive baseball into the year. I'm 61, how old are you? Sure. I don't think 81-85 wins is out of the question by 2026. I meant making the playoffs, and looking like they could be a factor. Having 7+ starting offensive pieces. Full rotation with no question marks. The richest person on Earth could buy the White Sox, and they're not signing the top 3 agents for the next 3 years. This is year zero. They have 3 stud pitchers in the minors. They have 4 nice rotation pieces on the ML team. Maybe they have 3 positional starters in the organization right now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 14 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So please in both your future proposals, ask for lesser talent back then you'd want because we have a bad GM. You can't tell me you're being reasonable with your expectations because of ownership and then propose trade offers that don't consider the failure of your GM. Or wait... let me guess. It's totally fine for you to live in fantasy land when it comes to trades? Even a bad GM is getting a top 100 mlb prospect in return for Crochet and that’s better than letting him walk for nothing in two years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 13 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 2028-2029? How old are you? If you think the Sox aren't going to compete again (even with great ownership) until 2028-2029 why are you even still here? Sheesh. No league requires 6-7 years of awfulness to be competitive. There's zero reason a competent leadership couldn't have the White Sox competitive in the AL Central by 2026. Competitive doesn't mean the best team in the world. It doesn't even mean winning the division, but it means playing competitive baseball into the year. Requires? No. But as long Jerry and his hindsuckers are in control, this is reality. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirmin' for Yermin Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 56 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain. 6 years is a lot more than 2. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenSox Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 48 minutes ago, WestEddy said: We keep bringing up ownership, and I really don't think that even enters into it. If the greatest team owner in history bought the White Sox tonight, they're not going to be "competitive" before.... what, 2028-2029? So we sign Crochet for 6 years, and we'll be competitive for his last 3 because no other good pitchers will ever come along? I've been bullish on Crochet coming back from injury, being fine, physically, and doing well, all along. I do think it would be a bit foolish to re-up him for most of the next decade until we see him barrel through most of 2025 without incident. I agree with this except for the 28-29 part. It’s not a Jerry issue. We need more good position players and we have two guys coming up who look like they could be Lefty aces. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 32 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: 2028-2029? How old are you? If you think the Sox aren't going to compete again (even with great ownership) until 2028-2029 why are you even still here? Sheesh. No league requires 6-7 years of awfulness to be competitive. There's zero reason a competent leadership couldn't have the White Sox competitive in the AL Central by 2026. Competitive doesn't mean the best team in the world. It doesn't even mean winning the division, but it means playing competitive baseball into the year. This team is the least talented team in baseball, coming off a 121 loss season, and looking to trade their two best remaining assets. They aren't going to be spending money, and they have a terrible track record with development. Its going to be an extremely long road to get competitive again before 2028. Next year is going to be just as bad as 2024. Then you are hoping they start taking steps in 2026 and 2027. If they get some gems from development and nail trades of Crochet and Robert, then you may be looking at 2027 as a best case scenario. Do people not realize how dire this situation is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: So now we're hoping we trade our ace lefty arm, because of his injury risk, so we can acquire a 22 year old coming off TJ who has thrown 15 innings since 2022? Some of you guys really like pain. While I wouldn't trade for a pitcher headliner in a Crochet deal, I'll play along. If Crochet's arm explodes next season, he very well may never pitch another inning for the White Sox, and if he does, we're talking 2nd half of 2026, and he'd have next to zero trade value, if any. If the Sox were to acquire Andrew Painter, he has 6-7 years of control. If he goes down with another TJS, he either has 6-7 years of control still, or worst case, you lose a season and a half of control if he happens to be on the active roster when the injury happens. This is pretty meaningful difference when the Sox might lose more than 121 games in 2025 (even with Crochet!), and would require a miraculous turn around to be remotely competitive in 2026 (even with Crochet!). But we can continue to ignore those extremely relevant details if you so wish. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wegner Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 40 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said: Even a bad GM is getting a top 100 mlb prospect in return for Crochet and that’s better than letting him walk for nothing in two years. #99 on the MLB Pipeline list is Carson Benge, OF in the Mets organization. Red rover, red rover send Benge on over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 10 minutes ago, T R U said: This team is the least talented team in baseball, coming off a 121 loss season, and looking to trade their two best remaining assets. They aren't going to be spending money, and they have a terrible track record with development. Its going to be an extremely long road to get competitive again before 2028. Next year is going to be just as bad as 2024. Then you are hoping they start taking steps in 2026 and 2027. If they get some gems from development and nail trades of Crochet and Robert, then you may be looking at 2027 as a best case scenario. Do people not realize how dire this situation is? Also keeping in mind that we're really firing on half our cylinders in amateur acquisition - international will take a few years to get cooking, if all goes right. Quero/Monty/Hagen/Schultz/Taylor all have to hit (at least as league average regulars), or we're really at zero. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 8 minutes ago, fathom said: Gross. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 I can see why you'd want to keep Crochet - we finally have someone who could be a top tier ace again, which hasn't happened since Giolito for like one season. Our trade record under Hahn was ABYSMAL, honestly setting the franchise back by 5+ years when you look at what he traded (Semien, Bassitt, Tatis in particular, using these assets in trades for JAGs like Samardzijia, Shields and Kimbrel, plus getting little sustained value from the Sale, Eaton and Quintana trades). We have been terrible at prospect development. We just "finished" a rebuild where basically everyone we acquired busted. A part of me wants to hang on to Crochet and enjoy him being one of the best left handed starters in the league, and not deal with the potential disappointment of a failed rebuild again. We can't afford to be gun shy, though. This team just needs way too much talent to have any chance in the future, and they're not going to sign premier free agents. They have to amass as much talent as they can, and figure out how to develop that talent internally with a high success rate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fielder Jones Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 JP Hoonstra says crochet will be traded very soon. if i'm crochet i buy a condo now and get real nice and settled here in chicago Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rocky Posted November 13 Share Posted November 13 32 minutes ago, fathom said: A Boston Fan Page Twitter account is hardly a source we should be paying attention to. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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