Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[Rey21]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Also, Abreu is basically a platoon player 

But but but “he won a gold glove!!!” 
These Red Sox fans are almost as delusional as Yankees fans 

If one of Anthony, Teel, or Mayer aren’t the headliner move on. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Also, Abreu is basically a platoon player 

You have Chris Getz attention.

[Y2Jimmy0]

I think Wilyer Abreu is pretty good. I’d hope they get really good prospects with him though. I’d assume Anthony and Mayer are off the table. 

[Bob Sacamano]

I’d be more concerned if he was a RHH and he had extreme platoon splits.

[caulfield12]

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/wilyer-abreu/23772/stats?position=OF

 

At least he graded out positively on defense, but didn't we hear over and over again how acquiring 25 year olds/(26 in the middle of next season) players when the Sox are YEARS away from competing was considered foolhardy at best with the Burger trade?????

By the time they're even close to hitting .500 (theoretically), he's already going to be into his arbitration years.

 

You can't trade a future Cy Young winner for a platoon corner outfielder (whose service clock has already started) as the headliner if you are in the position of the White Sox here...you just can't.

 

 

Run: Average speed. Solid baserunning instincts, but has already started to slow down and has the type of frame that might cause him to slow even more as he matures. Unlikely to steal more than 5-10 bases a year at the major league level.

Field: Profiles best in a corner outfield position. Solid instincts and efficient routes. Not a flashy defender, but makes the routine plays and does a good job getting to balls on the move. Could be an above-average defender in right field, but projects as average in center field.

Summation: Potential platoon bench outfielder. Ceiling of an average regular. Development of hit tool will determine his major league potential. Has raw power and will take a walk, but needs to cut down on his swing-and-miss and show he can consistently make contact and impact the baseball against advanced pitching. Concerns about his platoon splits will linger until he shows the ability to put together quality at-bats and make consistent contact against left-handed pitching.

https://soxprospects.com/players/abreu-wilyer.htm

 

Edited Thursday at 12:54 AM by caulfield12

[fathom]

29 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Wilyer Abreu is pretty good. I’d hope they get really good prospects with him though. I’d assume Anthony and Mayer are off the table. 

Campbell is likely a more impactful player than Mayer

[PaleAleSox]

When would Abreu be a FA? 2030?

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

When would Abreu be a FA? 2030?

After the 2029 season. 5 years of control.

Edited Thursday at 01:13 AM by Bob Sacamano

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

When would Abreu be a FA? 2030?

https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/player/_/id/23911/wilyer-abreu

2030 seemingly....about the time the stadium issue comes to a head.

[Lip Man 1]

From MLB.com:

Nov. 13: These clubs could be involved in trade market for Crochet
Although the White Sox didn't move Crochet prior to the Trade Deadline, there appears to be little doubt about their intentions for the left-hander this offseason.

"They're going to trade him this winter," a rival evaluator told ESPN's Buster Olney at the GM Meetings last week. "It's not a matter of if; it's a question of when."

Olney shed some light on Crochet's potential market in an article for ESPN+ (subscription required) on Wednesday, noting that general manager Chris Getz is looking for "a package of prospects constructed around at least one high-ceiling youngster to anchor the deal." Chicago's preference is for that main piece to be a position player, but the team is open to a pitcher being the centerpiece, "depending on the depth and quality of the prospects offered."

Based on conversations with industry sources, Olney names the Phillies, Padres, Yankees, Dodgers, Braves, Orioles, Red Sox and Mets as teams that could pursue a Crochet trade.

[Eminor3rd]

18 hours ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

This is my argument from earlier.  Let's say we get in time machine and make a trade with 2022 Tigers.  We get #4 overall prospect Spencer Torkelson (career -0.3 WAR), #40 overall Jackson Jobe (Career WAR 0.1) and solve our long-term catching problem with Tigers #4 prospect Dillon Dingler (Career WAR -0.3) plus a flyer pick.  That's a top 5 a top 50, PLUS Tigers 4th best prospect plus some A ball player we think has real upside???  If we got that package we would have been over the moon.  If we get that from some team, in this era of teams not trading top position players, we would be hugging ourselves.  The problem is prospects are all risky until they're not.  Certainly, SSS but Jackson Holiday with about the same number of at bats as James McCann put up 1/8 of the WAR.   Coby Mayo struck out in half his at bats in 17 games.  Untouchable.  Our 25-year-old ace who's succeeded in the majors...MUST be traded.  Sigh 

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Out of the three prospects you mentioned today they are: now the #5 overall prospect (Jobe), a 24-year old that has been inconsistent but already has a 30-plus homer season and still three more years of control (Torkelson), and a good-glove backup catcher with upside and 5 more years of control (Dingler). As of today, Jobe alone makes that trade a win, even if Tork never figures it out. You're trading a guy with only two more years on your team that just lost almost every game in the season. You can't look at this like a snapshot -- taking things one year at a time is exactly why the White Sox have delivered you exactly one flukey championship in the last 100 years.

I mean, are you suggesting Mayo and Holliday are busts? Neither of them even has HALF a season under their belts. Coby Mayo is 22 years old dude. You know who else was sub replacement at 22? Paul Konerko. Jackson Holliday is TWENTY.

[Eminor3rd]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Wilyer Abreu is pretty good. I’d hope they get really good prospects with him though. I’d assume Anthony and Mayer are off the table. 

Didn't Wilyer get  in trouble for some kind of attitude-related problem this year? Or am I thinking of someone else.

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Out of the three prospects you mentioned today they are: now the #5 overall prospect (Jobe), a 24-year old that has been inconsistent but already has a 30-plus homer season and still three more years of control (Torkelson), and a good-glove backup catcher with upside and 5 more years of control (Dingler). As of today, Jobe alone makes that trade a win, even if Tork never figures it out. You're trading a guy with only two more years on your team that just lost almost every game in the season. You can't look at this like a snapshot -- taking things one year at a time is exactly why the White Sox have delivered you exactly one flukey championship in the last 100 years.

I mean, are you suggesting Mayo and Holliday are busts? Neither of them even has HALF a season under their belts. Coby Mayo is 22 years old dude. You know who else was sub replacement at 22? Paul Konerko. Jackson Holliday is TWENTY.

Basically, we can't automatically project or extrapolate the White Sox failure rate to other teams...

Baltimore has already had success with Rutschman, Henderson, Cowser, Westburg and Kjerstad (.745 OPS blows away anyone on the Sox)...Grayson Rodriguez is a TOR starter, he caveat being when healthy.

Henderson is one of the 10 best players in baseball and was the first pick of the second round, not far off from Mike Trout draft territory.

Henderson was drafted with the first pick in the second round and is one of the bigger scouting misses in recent memory. Most of the prospects drafted before Henderson are still in the minors, or struggling to prove they belong in the big leagues.

 

The names kept ticking off. The group kept waiting. The Yankees had always preferred another high school shortstop, Anthony Volpe, and took him – the eighth shortstop drafted – at No. 30. A faction of Houston’s scouting department wanted Henderson, but the Astros ultimately selected Cal catcher Korey Lee with pick No. 32.

Every team but Boston, which didn’t have a first-round pick that year, passed on Henderson. The Pirates passed on him twice, as did the Dodgers. Arizona and Tampa Bay passed on him three times each. The athleticism was enticing, as were Henderson’s raw tools, but he wasn’t a sure bet. He hadn’t fared that well on the recent summer circuit. The Astros weren’t sure he could make enough contact and stick at shortstop, and the Dodgers had concerns about his swing and lack of domination against the weaker competition Henderson faced in Selma. Team after team didn’t want to take the risk.

When the Texas Rangers took Baylor third baseman David Wendzel with pick No. 41, the broadcast of the draft ended — only the first round and nine compensatory/competitive balance picks were televised — and the TV was switched to another channel.

As the draft picks got to the low 30s, and with Henderson’s name still out there, Elias — who had scouted Henderson more than two dozen times — called Henderson’s then-agent, Larry Reynolds, to ask: Would Henderson sign if they paid him over slot value? Reynolds wasn’t sure. The family had been pretty clear it was the first round or Auburn. They patched in Allen, who was still lingering at the Waters’ home. After the Auburn announcement, Kerry had gone to try to eat something. Gunnar was out back playing cornhole. There wasn’t time to gather them and relay the message, let alone make a life-altering decision.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5781950/2024/09/30/gunnar-henderson-orioles-mlb-draft-development/

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

6 hours ago, T R U said:

This team is the least talented team in baseball, coming off a 121 loss season, and looking to trade their two best remaining assets. They aren't going to be spending money, and they have a terrible track record with development. 

Its going to be an extremely long road to get competitive again before 2028. Next year is going to be just as bad as 2024. Then you are hoping they start taking steps in 2026 and 2027. 

If they get some gems from development and nail trades of Crochet and Robert, then you may be looking at 2027 as a best case scenario. Do people not realize how dire this situation is?

got it.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

Also, Abreu is basically a platoon player 

White Sox could do much worse than a 3 WAR platoon player. In fact, he’d be by far the best position player on the mlb roster, not saying much I know.

[michelangelosmonkey]

49 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Out of the three prospects you mentioned today they are: now the #5 overall prospect (Jobe), a 24-year old that has been inconsistent but already has a 30-plus homer season and still three more years of control (Torkelson), and a good-glove backup catcher with upside and 5 more years of control (Dingler). As of today, Jobe alone makes that trade a win, even if Tork never figures it out. You're trading a guy with only two more years on your team that just lost almost every game in the season. You can't look at this like a snapshot -- taking things one year at a time is exactly why the White Sox have delivered you exactly one flukey championship in the last 100 years.

I mean, are you suggesting Mayo and Holliday are busts? Neither of them even has HALF a season under their belts. Coby Mayo is 22 years old dude. You know who else was sub replacement at 22? Paul Konerko. Jackson Holliday is TWENTY.

Vaughn is better than Torkelson and we think he's a bust.   Korey Lee is better than Dingler and we think he is a bust.  Jobe = Schultz.   By almost every metric Crochet was a top 5 pitcher in baseball in his first season as a starter and he's 25 with almost no tread off the tire.   If we trade Crochet for Vaughn, Lee and Schultz and say just getting Schultz is a win...really? Montreal traded a power lefty pitcher at 25 and for the next 12 years he averaged 7 WAR a season and then he got better.  

We love prospects too much and what's even worse is that by all accounts...we won't even GET a team's top prospects for Crochet just secondary prospects.  

My point about Holliday and Mayo is that we write off our SSS guys like FG top 60 Ramos because he didn't do it in the majors but then say other teams SSS failure are just an illusion.  

[Rey21]

I wonder if including Vaughn in a deal with Crochet would increase or decrease the return 

[SoCalChiSox]

5 hours ago, steveno89 said:

I doubt that from the White Sox perspective^ 

Why?

We settle for uninspiring returns all the time.

 

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, Rey21 said:

I wonder if including Vaughn in a deal with Crochet would increase or decrease the return 

Why would you decrease a Crochet return when you can just non-tender him?

[michelangelosmonkey]

12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

White Sox could do much worse than a 3 WAR platoon player. In fact, he’d be by far the best position player on the mlb roster, not saying much I know.

Getting a 3 WAR platoon player for Crochet would be an unmitigated disaster.  He stays (my preference) or what he can bring are the keys to the future.  I think we would consider ourselves fortunate to get the equivalent of what we got in the Sale trade. 

[T R U]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

got it.

Just because they don’t have a great track record of development doesn’t mean they never develop anyone. 

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, T R U said:

Just because they don’t have a great track record of development doesn’t mean they never develop anyone. 

By dumb luck really. A guy like Chris Sale who’s too good to f*** up comes along.

Edited Thursday at 03:30 AM by Bob Sacamano

[Fielder Jones]

23 minutes ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Getting a 3 WAR platoon player for Crochet would be an unmitigated disaster.  He stays (my preference) or what he can bring are the keys to the future.  I think we would consider ourselves fortunate to get the equivalent of what we got in the Sale trade. 

Getting 3 WAR in your first true season is-- really good. Also the days are over where superstar prospect bats get traded. All those first tier guys are staying where they are and you are gonna have to do homework to find the next tier's underappreciated guy, whoever he is

If i have an issue with him it's the age and ceiling-left...but again - young bats really arent being traded these days

Edited Thursday at 03:32 AM by Fielder Jones

[michelangelosmonkey]

18 minutes ago, T R U said:

Just because they don’t have a great track record of development doesn’t mean they never develop anyone. 

Just because they haven't offered a pitcher top of the market contract (actually twice in 12 years) doesn't mean they won't.  Sign Crochet

[michelangelosmonkey]

19 minutes ago, Fielder Jones said:

Getting 3 WAR in your first true season is-- really good. Also the days are over where superstar prospect bats get traded. All those first tier guys are staying where they are and you are gonna have to do homework to find the next tier's underappreciated guy, whoever he is

If i have an issue with him it's the age and ceiling-left...but again - young bats really arent being traded these days

He's 3 days younger than Crochet who put up a 4 WAR in his first half a season as a starter.  

If the days are over where you get a top hitting prospect...why are we trading him????