Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[southsider2k5]

13 hours ago, Eminor3rd said:

I'm not sure what point you're trying to make with this. Out of the three prospects you mentioned today they are: now the #5 overall prospect (Jobe), a 24-year old that has been inconsistent but already has a 30-plus homer season and still three more years of control (Torkelson), and a good-glove backup catcher with upside and 5 more years of control (Dingler). As of today, Jobe alone makes that trade a win, even if Tork never figures it out. You're trading a guy with only two more years on your team that just lost almost every game in the season. You can't look at this like a snapshot -- taking things one year at a time is exactly why the White Sox have delivered you exactly one flukey championship in the last 100 years.

I mean, are you suggesting Mayo and Holliday are busts? Neither of them even has HALF a season under their belts. Coby Mayo is 22 years old dude. You know who else was sub replacement at 22? Paul Konerko. Jackson Holliday is TWENTY.

Look, if Baltimore came to the Sox and was willing to start a deal with Jackson Holliday for Crochet, it would probably be the leader in the clubhouse.

[SCCWS]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Red Sox may be the best fit unless Abreu is the headliner..

Agree. Abreu had a very good year but he is still adjusting to hitting lefties. He cannot be the headliner. Abreu may be great in the future but right now the White Sox need a player who can offset, to some degree, if we are trading a potential number top 5-10 starter. Some team, desperate for an ace, will trade a headliner to offset Crochet

[Chicago White Sox]

To me, the pitching roadmap for us is pretty straightforward.  First, you trade Crochet for much needed positional talent.  Then you go with something like this for your opening day rotation.

1. Davis Martin
2. Drew Thorpe
3. Sean Burke
4. Jonathan Cannon
5. Ky Bush* vs. Nastrini vs. Adams

At some point during the season, Schultz will likely be ready for a spot.  He takes over for the weak link whenever that is.  Iriarte and the other guys who lost out on the #5 role can also reclaim a spot if they dominant in Charlotte.  More or less, you are looking at nine semi-interesting guys to fill about five spots.  I feel pretty good that we come away with a future ace in Schultz (if healthy), at least one mid-rotation starter, and several BOR types.

From there, you really are just buying time until Smith & Taylor are ready for the big leagues.  Smith should be ready by Y26, while Taylor may need a bit more time before he arrives.  There are a lot more arms coming, but almost all of them are MOR / BOR types.  Regardless, they provide important depth in the event some of the guys mentioned above get hurt or flame out.  And hopefully they allow you to trade some of the proven backend types for other needs.

As such, the top of your future rotation likely is built around Schultz, Smith, & Taylor.  If one of those guys flop or gets injured (which is probable), we should have plenty of money to sign a short mercenary deal with a free agent SP.  The rest of the rotation should be solid to good depending which guys emerge, but realistically Thorpe & Cannon already look like legit major league starters.

The key point here is there is a path forward with the rotation.  Trying to do this with our positional group requires basically every prospect of note to be a hit, Wolkow becoming a star, and some off the radar prospects emerging.  It simply won’t happen.  But if we can get two quality positional prospects for Crochet, the roadmap to building a competent lineup becomes much clearer.

[Kyyle23]

11 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

By dumb luck really. A guy like Chris Sale who’s too good to f*** up comes along.

It’s hard to consider Sale and Crochet development wins for the minors.  They developed at the major league level because their talent was just that great 

[hi8is]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

To me, the pitching roadmap for us is pretty straightforward.  First, you trade Crochet for much needed positional talent.  Then you go with something like this for your opening day rotation.

1. Davis Martin
2. Drew Thorpe
3. Sean Burke
4. Jonathan Cannon
5. Ky Bush* vs. Nastrini vs. Adams

At some point during the season, Schultz will likely be ready for a spot.  He takes over for the weak link whenever that is.  Iriarte and the other guys who lost out on the #5 role can also reclaim a spot if they dominant in Charlotte.  More or less, you are looking at nine semi-interesting guys to fill about five spots.  I feel pretty good that we come away with a future ace in Schultz (if healthy), at least one mid-rotation starter, and several BOR types.

From there, you really are just buying time until Smith & Taylor are ready for the big leagues.  Smith should be ready by Y26, while Taylor may need a bit more time before he arrives.  There are a lot more arms coming, but almost all of them are MOR / BOR types.  Regardless, they provide important depth in the event some of the guys mentioned above get hurt or flame out.  And hopefully they allow you to trade some of the proven backend types for other needs.

As such, the top of your future rotation likely is built around Schultz, Smith, & Taylor.  If one of those guys flop or gets injured (which is probable), we should have plenty of money to sign a short mercenary deal with a free agent SP.  The rest of the rotation should be solid to good depending which guys emerge, but realistically Thorpe & Cannon already look like legit major league starters.

The key point here is there is a path forward with the rotation.  Trying to do this with our positional group requires basically every prospect of note to be a hit, Wolkow becoming a star, and some off the radar prospects emerging.  It simply won’t happen.  But if we can get two quality positional prospects for Crochet, the roadmap to building a competent lineup becomes much clearer.

This is so bleak 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, hi8is said:

This is so bleak 

It’s what happens when your organization can’t draft or develop position players at all.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Look, if Baltimore came to the Sox and was willing to start a deal with Jackson Holliday for Crochet, it would probably be the leader in the clubhouse.

Thankfully I don’t think they will and I’m grateful for that. Crochet for Holliday straight up would be a bad trade for the Sox imo.

[WestEddy]

A team has 14 starting slots to fill - 9 offensive players, and 5 rotational starters. A contending team has to at least get close to that 14. Maybe they can carry a light-hitting 2B, or do 5th starter by committee. Effective platoons certainly help. 

The 2004 White Sox started out with about 8 of those set - Konerko, Uribe, Crede, Lee, Rowand, Buehrle, Garland and Thomas/Everett. They added Garcia and Contreras at the TDL, and swapped out Podsednik for Lee in the offseason. Then, they added Pierzynski, Iguchi and Dye. That's 13 of 14 starting slots they had filled with legitimate major leaguers. (Argue about Pods and Uribe, if you want)

This team starts out with Crochet, Robert, ... maybe a healthy Benintendi.... Cannon & Thorpe? 4-5 legitimate major league starters. Signing and keeping Crochet doesn't get you any closer to that 14, especially when you have 3 studs coming along, any one of which could replace his production among those 14. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Thankfully I don’t think they will and I’m grateful for that. Crochet for Holliday straight up would be a bad trade for the Sox imo.

I said START A DEAL, but OK.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Thankfully I don’t think they will and I’m grateful for that. Crochet for Holliday straight up would be a bad trade for the Sox imo.

How would that be a bad deal for the Sox?

By the way.. The Orioles would say no, rather easily.

[Bob Sacamano]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

How would that be a bad deal for the Sox?

By the way.. The Orioles would say no, rather easily.

BeCaUsE hE dIdN't Do WeLl HiS fIrSt CaLlUp As A 20 YeAr OlD.

[WhiteSox2023]

13 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

How would that be a bad deal for the Sox?

By the way.. The Orioles would say no, rather easily.

Yep.  If Getz had a shot at a franchise player, a new young face for his crappy team, he would jump at it in a second.  Especially for a pitcher with two years of control that everyone and their grandmother knows that Jerry won’t pay for.  The Orioles wouldn’t even make the offer.

[Squirmin' for Yermin]

35 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yep.  If Getz had a shot at a franchise player, a new young face for his crappy team, he would jump at it in a second.  Especially for a pitcher with two years of control that everyone and their grandmother knows that Jerry won’t pay for.  The Orioles wouldn’t even make the offer.

Yeah silly for people to think the Sox would say no when in reality the Orioles laugh at you and hang up the phone.

[WhiteSox2023]

On 11/7/2024 at 5:18 PM, Balta1701 said:

If the White Sox have decided that they are dumping Robert, I can't say I'd be furious. I fully believe they have completely screwed up his mindset and work ethic, and if they don't believe their coaches can fix it, they will be right.

Taking "Whatever the best you can get" is for Robert, at this point, I can follow that.

However, if the best you can get is a guy who is already in arbitration, yeah just hold him. At least give me one of Getz'z A-ball specials that the Getzlyfans can oggle for a few years until they're out of the sport. Better chance of being useful. 

🤣  Getz + OnlyFans = Getzlyfans?

[Tnetennba]

41 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

🤣  Getz + OnlyFans = Getzlyfans?

Is that the kind of  site that you pay to not see? Cuz...

[WhiteSox2023]

On 11/13/2024 at 2:11 PM, fathom said:

 

And reality slaps Sox fans right in the face, cold and hard…

Getz would be okay with a headliner that will turn 26 next season.

Meanwhile, some posters wouldn’t trade Crochet straight up for what will be a 21 year old Jackson Holliday with true star potential.

[Fielder Jones]

FWIW Eaton was 25 when he was here, played great, and his value rolled over to netting us Giolito, Lopez, Dunning - so you can still win a few games and then move him for something else at his peak if you get him. You have to trust your evaluation of the guy though and thread that needle perfectly. 

Harder now to get a Giolito type name in a trade. Those days seem gone. You have to uncover diamonds in the rough.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

How would that be a bad deal for the Sox?

By the way.. The Orioles would say no, rather easily.

1. Service clock already ticking

2. He’s a second basemen

3. Struggled in MLB (yes, he’s super young but so were the two other Jacksons)

4. Need more than one player in return for Crochet unless said player is a proven young star like Jackson Merrill

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

24 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And reality slaps Sox fans right in the face, cold and hard…

Getz would be okay with a headliner that will turn 26 next season.

Meanwhile, some posters wouldn’t trade Crochet straight up for what will be a 21 year old Jackson Holliday with true star potential.

https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/exploring-the-red-sox-options-for-landing-garrett-crochet

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Fielder Jones said:

FWIW Eaton was 25 when he was here, played great, and his value rolled over to netting us Giolito, Lopez, Dunning - so you can still win a few games and then move him for something else at his peak if you get him. You have to trust your evaluation of the guy though and thread that needle perfectly. 

Harder now to get a Giolito type name in a trade. Those days seem gone. You have to uncover diamonds in the rough.

Eaton was an established top prospect with AZ and put up a huge fWAR season playing RF in 2016 due to a boat load of assists...almost double the overall Aybar numbers.  Plus he was a legit stolen base threat at that time as well, and overall health was not yet a concern.

Edited Thursday at 10:55 PM by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/exploring-the-red-sox-options-for-landing-garrett-crochet

If Abreu is the headliner, I don’t think the Sox get a single one of the Red Sox top four prospects.  It will be two or three more prospects after those guys.

Edited Thursday at 10:57 PM by WhiteSox2023

[PaleAleSox]

28 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

And reality slaps Sox fans right in the face, cold and hard…

Getz would be okay with a headliner that will turn 26 next season.

Meanwhile, some posters wouldn’t trade Crochet straight up for what will be a 21 year old Jackson Holliday with true star potential.

The reality of what? That is some guy talking.  

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If Abreu is the headliner, I don’t think the Sox get a single one of the Red Sox top four prospects.  It will be two more prospects after those guys.

If you actually listened McAdam’s interview he implies that one of the big four would be included but two of them (Anthony and possibly Campbell) are off limits. So if Mayer is included in the deal is Abreu really the “headliner”? I guess but Mayer is a damn good prospect in his own right.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

My guess is it would look something like Abreu + Mayer + Perales + Jordan in a deal with Boston. I’d be good with that.

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

The reality of what? That is some guy talking.  

The reality of Getz getting his ass played like a fiddle in the majority of his trades.

Edited Thursday at 11:05 PM by WhiteSox2023