Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Those last 2 came in a deal for a guy who was one of the worst SP and another guy who was one of the worst RP that year so not really the same page.

The point remains.  The Dodgers still know better than the Sox which players to throw in a trade that they won’t miss.  Meanwhile, the Sox thought they were striking gold with these guys, just like Jake Eder from the Marlins.

The Sox thought they acquired two rotation starters, a closer, and a big bat in these trades.  🤣

Edited November 15 by WhiteSox2023

[nrockway]

5 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I say no to that garbage as well.

Lux makes absolutely zero sense for the Sox being a mediocre 2B with only 2 years of control left before he hits free agency, all while the Sox are pretty much guaranteed to suck.

Which is probably why our awful GM will trade for him — because it makes no sense.

lux sux

why do I keep thinking your avatar of aj pierzynski is the vice president-elect? the beard only highlights the weak chin, it doesn't mask it. somebody needs to tell these guys.

[WhiteSox2023]

3 minutes ago, nrockway said:

lux sux

why do I keep thinking your avatar of aj pierzynski is the vice president-elect? the beard only highlights the weak chin, it doesn't mask it. somebody needs to tell these guys.

Agreed, AJ’s beard is pretty gross if you watch him on Foul Territory.

[Chicago White Sox]

30 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Those last 2 came in a deal for a guy who was one of the worst SP and another guy who was one of the worst RP that year so not really the same page.

Fully agree.  And too early to give up on Nastrini & Leasure.

[pcq]

1 hour ago, Vote4Pedro said:

 

Bruce Levine still around yawn. 

[WhiteSox2023]

38 minutes ago, pcq said:

Bruce Levine still around yawn. 

Someone has to milk a Chicago sports media job.  It may as well be a boring old fogey.  He thought about asking hard-hitting questions back in his 30’s, but then decided it would be a better idea to milk an easy career into his 70’s.

Edited November 15 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

"And while some might argue that the second base job should go to prospect Kristian Campbell, there's no comparison between a rookie and an established star like Bregman, besides which, Campbell can also play shortstop and outfield; there are other ways to get his bat into the lineup if that's the goal. Signing Bregman would also open the possibility of making Campbell the centerpiece of a deal for young pitching, should management choose to fill any rotation openings that way."

 

www.yahoo.com/sports

Edited November 15 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

29 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

"And while some might argue that the second base job should go to prospect Kristian Campbell, there's no comparison between a rookie and an established star like Bregman, besides which, Campbell can also play shortstop and outfield; there are other ways to get his bat into the lineup if that's the goal. Signing Bregman would also open the possibility of making Campbell the centerpiece of a deal for young pitching, should management choose to fill any rotation openings that way."

 

www.yahoo.com/sports

Campbell as a centerpiece of a Crochet trade would be so familiar and a Getz-like move.

If Campbell fails to hit in the majors, he could become our Vargas Part II that can’t hit or play defense.

Edited November 15 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Campbell as a centerpiece of a Crochet trade would be so familiar and a Getz-like move.

If Campbell fails to hit in the majors, he could become our Vargas Part II that can’t hit or play defense.

Field: Versatile defender who has played second base, third base, shortstop and center field. Looks most comfortable at second base, where he played in college. At short and third, shows solid athleticism and range, but is a little unorthodox with his movements. In the outfield, he Is still learning the nuances of the position, especially with his reads and routes, but has the raw athleticism and speed you look for out there and to cover up for most errors. Potential average defensive profile with the versatility to adequately play at least three positions.

Arm: Fringe-average arm. Passable on the left side of the infield, but best suited for second base.

 

Summation: Potential above-average regular. Ceiling of a consistent all-star. Still has some variance in his projection due to his unorthodox swing, but is a plus athlete who has taken a major step forward in 2024 and established himself as one of the top prospects not just in the organization, but in all of baseball. Has made massive strides at the plate with his quality of contact while maintaining the ability to make good swing decisions. Hit-over-power profile, but hits the ball hard enough that he should be able to hit 15-plus home runs a season and a bunch of extra base hits while maintaining a high average and consistently getting on base.

 

https://soxprospects.com/players/campbell-kristian.htm

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Campbell as a centerpiece of a Crochet trade would be so familiar and a Getz-like move.

If Campbell fails to hit in the majors, he could become our Vargas Part II that can’t hit or play defense.

I’d certainly take him over Coby Mayo if those are the top two prospects being offered by Baltimore and Boston.

[Chicago White Sox]

Dream trade from the Red Sox would be Mayer, Montgomery, Zanetello, and a filler piece.  I would do the same trade with Mayer swapped for Campbell.

[Balta1701]

11 hours ago, Vote4Pedro said:

 

I’d like to note that the NL comeback player of the year is one Chris Sale.

This has nothing to do with a Crochet trade I just liked this.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’d certainly take him over Coby Mayo if those are the top two prospects being offered by Baltimore and Boston.

I doubt the Orioles will even make an offer for Crochet worth considering.

[Baron]

Problem we've had for the last 8+ years is we need to stop counting on the teams that prospect hug to do anything different than they have in the past decade. Look away from the Orioles. 

[PaleAleSox]

8 minutes ago, Baron said:

Problem we've had for the last 8+ years is we need to stop counting on the teams that prospect hug to do anything different than they have in the past decade. Look away from the Orioles. 

At this point I hope the O's keep prospect hugging and continue to make early first round exits at best. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

16 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

https://www.mlb.com/redsox/news/exploring-the-red-sox-options-for-landing-garrett-crochet

Id feel a lot better if I heard Getz talking about these things when discussing trading  Crochet with the media.

At least let the other teams know that you know what you have and have entered the 21st Century basic analytics data points.

 

Edited November 15 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Rey21]

4 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’d certainly take him over Coby Mayo if those are the top two prospects being offered by Baltimore and Boston.

Personally Coby Mayo is my top choice outside of Roman Anthony and Aidan Miller as a return 

I think Mayo is going to absolutely mash and could handle 1B for a long time here. 

Edited November 15 by Rey21

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Yeah silly for people to think the Sox would say no when in reality the Orioles laugh at you and hang up the phone.

The Orioles are in no position to laugh at anyone.

They lost in the 1st round of the playoffs 2 years in a row and lost their best starting pitcher.

The clock is ticking on their window.

We have no idea yet how much money Baltimore's new ownership is willing to spend.

If Crochet is willing to sign a reasonable extension with a contende because he believes deep runs into the postseason are potentially harmful to his career, that makes him much more valuable .

The potential for the proverbial haul is higher if teams believe this.

People were pissed about an extension which threw a monkey wrench into the TDL chances of a Crochet deal but it honestly couldn't have turned out any better.

The plan that he and the Sox put together worked like a charm and he pitched way beyond the innings anyone thought  he could , stayed healthy and was in  near or 90%+ in many Statcast pitching categories.

He's worth considerably more now than he was then.

I never believed the haul talk for Cease because there was doubt . He looked like a typical Sox prospect starting to regress .

Crochet is quite valuable for 2 years and beyond if there's some way for the the Sox to get a higher trade package letting the trading team work on getting Crochet to sign an extension.

I need help in knowing if that's allowed.

Edited November 15 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Lip Man 1]

https://www.mlb.com/news/garrett-crochet-trade-proposals

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/14/2024 at 7:13 AM, Kyyle23 said:

It’s hard to consider Sale and Crochet development wins for the minors.  They developed at the major league level because their talent was just that great 

It's a win for plenty of people  in the Sox organization. Let's not forget Sale was the 13th pick in the 1st round in 2020 and Crochet was 11th in 2020.

Both were passed up by plenty of teams for various good reasons. The same reasons many pitchers with great arms get passed up and never make it.

Let's not pretend they were so obviously great that the Sox lucked into them or didn't work with them to make them better. If it was so easy they both would have been drafted much higher. The only 2 players from the 2010  draft who are equally great are Harper, who was perhaps the most hyped player ever drafted and Manny Machado. That leaves 10 teams who passed on Sale.

Crochet barely pitched at all in College because of health, performance and COVID . 10 teams passed on him too who probably regret it now , although some in his class still have a chance to become better .

[Kyyle23]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a win for plenty of people  in the Sox organization. Let's not forget Sale was the 13th pick in the 1st round in 2020 and Crochet was 11th in 2020.

Both were passed up by plenty of teams for various good reasons. The same reasons many pitchers with great arms get passed up and never make it.

Let's not pretend they were so obviously great that the Sox lucked into them or didn't work with them to make them better. If it was so easy they both would have been drafted much higher. The only 2 players from the 2010  draft who are equally great are Harper, who was perhaps the most hyped player ever drafted and Manny Machado. That leaves 10 teams who passed on Sale.

Crochet barely pitched at all in College because of health, performance and COVID . 10 teams passed on him too who probably regret it now , although some in his class still have a chance to become better .

The point was not that the Sox didn’t develop them, the point was the minors did not develop them.  None of the above changes my feelings, the Sox drafted both of them based on immense natural talent and brought them up immediately with little to no seasoning.  
 

and honestly it’s hard to credit crochet even more as a development win since he took it upon himself this season to make himself a starter 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

The point was not that the Sox didn’t develop them, the point was the minors did not develop them.  None of the above changes my feelings, the Sox drafted both of them based on immense natural talent and brought them up immediately with little to no seasoning.  
 

and honestly it’s hard to credit crochet even more as a development win since he took it upon himself this season to make himself a starter 

I understand the desire to discredit all things White Sox but even if you say the decision to become a starter is all on Crochet is true, there was so much more that went into his great season it belittles everything and everyone involved to say it's very hard to credit as a development win.

Crochet's success this year was very much a development win unless you know nothing about it. There is plenty out there about much that went into it. And there was also incorporated things to help him beyond 2024 for this off season and his future to become more efficient. Crochet thinks like most great players,  that he can always get better or learn new things when their physical gifts start to wane.

Crochet is on record multiple times crediting the plan the Sox put him on to maintain his health and get him more innings than many thought possible. He liked it so much he refused to deviate from it unless he got an extention.

If you think developing a player's health plan and changing grips on pitches and changing pitch repertoire and sequencing or making future plans to cut down on HRs and get more doubleplays is not development then you're just not paying attention or there's no reasoning with you. Your opinion is myopically biased.

Sometimes it takes years and sometimes it just has to be done at a time more conducive to the player's physical and mental maturation.

In Crochet's case it was the right people at the right time in his life . The same people 2 or 3 years ago likely do not produce the same results.

 

Edited November 15 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Kyyle23]

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I understand the desire to discredit all things White Sox but even if you say the decision to become a starter is all on Crochet is true, there was so much more that went into his great season it belittles everything and everyone involved.

Crochet's success this year was very much a development win unless you know nothing about it. There is plenty out there about much that went into it. And there was also incorporated things to help him beyond 2024 for this off season and his future to become more efficient. Crochet thinks like most great players,  that he can always get better or learn new things when their physical gifts start to wane.

Crochet is on record multiple times crediting the plan the Sox put his on to maintain his heLth and get him more in ings that many thought possible. He liked it so much he refused to deviate from it unless he got an extention.

If you don't think developing a players health plan and changing grips on pitches and changing pitch repertoire and sequencing or making future plans to cut down on HRs and ge more plays is not development there's no reasoning with you. Sometimes it takes years and sometimes it just has to be done at a time more conducive to the player's physical and mental maturation.

In Crochet's case it was the right people at the right time in his life .

 

I don’t agree.  Thanks for the lecture 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

It's a win for plenty of people  in the Sox organization. Let's not forget Sale was the 13th pick in the 1st round in 2020 and Crochet was 11th in 2020.

Both were passed up by plenty of teams for various good reasons. The same reasons many pitchers with great arms get passed up and never make it.

Let's not pretend they were so obviously great that the Sox lucked into them or didn't work with them to make them better. If it was so easy they both would have been drafted much higher. The only 2 players from the 2010  draft who are equally great are Harper, who was perhaps the most hyped player ever drafted and Manny Machado. That leaves 10 teams who passed on Sale.

Crochet barely pitched at all in College because of health, performance and COVID . 10 teams passed on him too who probably regret it now , although some in his class still have a chance to become better .

Largely due to concerns about how thin he was and the profile looked more like a high leverage reliever…at least at FGCU.

They also protected him so much by having him throw FBs at lower velocity unless he really needed to ramp up into the high 90s in key situations.

 

[caulfield12]

The bigger problem is Crochet just follows along in the line of Sale Quintana Rodon Giolito Cease Lopez Kopech, heck even Fedde … having success with other organizations.  Or at least getting paid by them.

So being a feeder team for MLB or the equivalent of the Washington Generals doesn’t really accomplish all that much for fans of sustainable, winning baseball.

And the far bigger problem clearly lies on the position player side.

Until that’s fixed, we could produce the 1990’s Braves rotations and still be a .500 ballclub.

Edited November 15 by caulfield12