Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[Dick Allen]

18 minutes ago, buckweaver said:

I've been here a long time but seldom bother to post because of the constant know-it-all negativity...even in good times.

I always get a kick out of people complaining about others complaining. The sire always sucks but you always read it. Makes no sense.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, buckweaver said:

I've been here a long time but seldom bother to post because of the constant know-it-all negativity...even in good times.

The bad times are much more frequent than the good times and Jerry is to blame for that.  Not Sox fans posting on a message board.

[buckweaver]

2 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I always get a kick out of people complaining about others complaining. The sire always sucks but you always read it. Makes no sense.

I simply don't find the negative banter and back-and-forth personal attacks here all that interesting. I check in because, in fairness, this site posts White Sox news/information more quickly than anywhere else. 

[GreenSox]

On 11/16/2024 at 8:48 AM, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I'm still a believer in Baty.  I think he's gonna hit and is an excellent breakout candidate.  He's a left handed bat with power that they desperately need.  No he's not going to be a longterm third baseman but I think he'll be fine there until Montgomery has to slide over. I think Baty is the major league ready type of player they should be targeting.  

Maybe trade Vaughn for him or something. 

Edited November 18 by GreenSox

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, buckweaver said:

I simply don't find the negative banter and back-and-forth personal attacks here all that interesting. I check in because, in fairness, this site posts White Sox news/information more quickly than anywhere else. 

Agreed. I post more often than I should but still a small fraction of what the regulars do. I would post more if 90% of my posts weren’t met with a negative reply. Even suggesting realistic trade proposals are met with negativity cuz Getz, etc. It gets old.

[steveno89]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

Maybe trade Vaughn for him or something. 

Vaughn has trade value? 

I figure the Sox will non tender him 

[DirtySox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Agreed. I post more often than I should but still a small fraction of what the regulars do. I would post more if 90% of my posts weren’t met with a negative reply. Even suggesting realistic trade proposals are met with negativity cuz Getz, etc. It gets old.

I don't mind the negativity when it's warranted. And it surely is with the state of the organization. It just has come to dominate and overwhelm any value added conversation here.

One can craft nuanced posts picking apart why the Vargas trade sucked. See Timmy U for instance on warning signs, red flags, and prospect evaulation. Compare that to someone like Whitesox2023 whose posts consist of "Lol Getz Sucks!" or "Coulda had Keaschall!" Dude could be replaced with a bot or a soundboard and no one could tell the difference.

There are so many posters here whose takes I enjoy reading. It's a shame those posts often drown amongst so much s%*# posting. But yea. I suppose I'm whining about the whiners. I guess I should accept it will be this way until/if the organization manages to right the ship.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, buckweaver said:

I simply don't find the negative banter and back-and-forth personal attacks here all that interesting. I check in because, in fairness, this site posts White Sox news/information more quickly than anywhere else. 

I try to be positive. I know I'm negative when it comes to JR .Most of the time I try to stay positive .I don't break any stories but I do try to post interesting videos of links for people to watch to make them more informed.

There's a lot of sports content on social media .I especially like vlogs and have been very tuned into the  Crochet story and feel I know his growth pretty well. His path to his incredible 2024 has been very unpredictable and fraught with twists and turns .

The old saying that development isn't always linear applies in spades to him. I try to stick with sound logic and reasoning based on everything I've read and watched to form my opinions.

It seems obvious to me many many hands are involved in developing a player and timing also plays a critical role. There are many decisions and changes along with suggested changes, trial and error. Player development is like a science project. Rarely will I think that there is only one reason for success or think that my reason makes it hard to give others involved their due, especially when I can bare witness to other people developing a player due to it being documented for all to watch or read about, not from people seeking credit, but from the player himself handing out a accolades to his coaches and talking about specifics. He also based career altering decisions on how much he liked the things his coaches did. It's mind numbing to me that any fan can say I find it hard to give anyone else any developmental credit given all the information out there to the contrary.

The last time Crochet had a full season as a starting pitcher was 2017 when he was a Senior in H.S. Yet somehow all he had to do was tell the Sox in 2024 I want to be a Starting Pitcher again and, voila ,7 years of no success magically disappears without any help.

 

[SCCWS]

I would assume Boston's pursuit of Soto will put Crochet talks on back burner until Soto makes a decision. I think he stays in New York but we shall see.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 hours ago, DirtySox said:

I don't mind the negativity when it's warranted. And it surely is with the state of the organization. It just has come to dominate and overwhelm any value added conversation here.

One can craft nuanced posts picking apart why the Vargas trade sucked. See Timmy U for instance on warning signs, red flags, and prospect evaulation. Compare that to someone like Whitesox2023 whose posts consist of "Lol Getz Sucks!" or "Coulda had Keaschall!" Dude could be replaced with a bot or a soundboard and no one could tell the difference.

There are so many posters here whose takes I enjoy reading. It's a shame those posts often drown amongst so much s%*# posting. But yea. I suppose I'm whining about the whiners. I guess I should accept it will be this way until/if the organization manages to right the ship.

TimmyU knows his onions.  There's no doubt about that.

[Balta1701]

43 minutes ago, SCCWS said:

I would assume Boston's pursuit of Soto will put Crochet talks on back burner until Soto makes a decision. I think he stays in New York but we shall see.

It only takes 1 team determined to get a deal done for a deal to get done. If Boston and LAD want to wait, but Dombrowski says "We're getting this done", someone will get it done. Boston could easily want Crochet either way, if they don't land Soto, they could land Alonso and it would help their lineup a lot too.

But, every team can find reasons to delay. If several teams are waiting on Sasaki, that's something that could delay things.

[southsider2k5]

56 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It only takes 1 team determined to get a deal done for a deal to get done. If Boston and LAD want to wait, but Dombrowski says "We're getting this done", someone will get it done. Boston could easily want Crochet either way, if they don't land Soto, they could land Alonso and it would help their lineup a lot too.

But, every team can find reasons to delay. If several teams are waiting on Sasaki, that's something that could delay things.

It makes MORE sense for Boston to want a cheaper Crochet the next two years if they spend on Soto, as they will be a a lot more cap blocked.

[caulfield12]

57 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It only takes 1 team determined to get a deal done for a deal to get done. If Boston and LAD want to wait, but Dombrowski says "We're getting this done", someone will get it done. Boston could easily want Crochet either way, if they don't land Soto, they could land Alonso and it would help their lineup a lot too.

But, every team can find reasons to delay. If several teams are waiting on Sasaki, that's something that could delay things.

https://www.espn.com/mlb/player/stats/_/id/41180/triston-casas

He would be the best young hitter on the White Sox but imminently replaceable just like W.Abreu.

Of course, they also have Yoshida and Giolito on the books...the key is that younger core progressing at the upper levels, and pitching pitching pitching.

Feel like the days of half measures are limited for Boston...especially if Toronto's willing to spend for one last bite at the apple with Guerrero/Bichette/Springer.

[Balta1701]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It makes MORE sense for Boston to want a cheaper Crochet the next two years if they spend on Soto, as they will be a a lot more cap blocked.

Yeah but they might be less willing to trade an OF prospect if they don’t land him, or less desperate for a starting pitcher for example.

[Bob Sacamano]

I would have liked Cowser to win RoY so they could get the extra draft pick.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/18/2024 at 1:26 PM, SCCWS said:

I would assume Boston's pursuit of Soto will put Crochet talks on back burner until Soto makes a decision. I think he stays in New York but we shall see.

I think just being a high profile trade piece with the word "haul" being thrown around puts it on the back burner .

Teams just aren't giving up the kind of prospects the Sox are seeking. I'd expect a long wait.

[caulfield12]

https://www.mlb.com/news/the-white-sox-case-for-keeping-garrett-crochet

Of course, what the cost of an extension would be and the unlikelihood of JR authorizing not considered in the article...

 

It's understandable to see fans praising certain returns in mock Crochet trades on social media and scoffing at others. They wholeheartedly embraced the last rebuild, and despite being disappointed by the long-term results, they once again understand the team’s current rough situation with a hope for better days in the not-too-distant future. But think of Crochet working at the front of the pack of starters just mentioned.

Much like a good card player, if you have an ace, you really don’t want to discard it. Check out what Tarik Skubal did for a solid but not always spectacular Detroit team that ultimately reached the playoffs and won its Wild Card Series as a prime example.

 

Gee, this sounds like a familiar argument, right?

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

. But think of Crochet working at the front of the pack of starters just mentioned.

I can imagine that quite easily, it’s a probably weaker version of the Mariners the last couple years.

[steveno89]

15 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.mlb.com/news/the-white-sox-case-for-keeping-garrett-crochet

Of course, what the cost of an extension would be and the unlikelihood of JR authorizing not considered in the article...

 

It's understandable to see fans praising certain returns in mock Crochet trades on social media and scoffing at others. They wholeheartedly embraced the last rebuild, and despite being disappointed by the long-term results, they once again understand the team’s current rough situation with a hope for better days in the not-too-distant future. But think of Crochet working at the front of the pack of starters just mentioned.

Much like a good card player, if you have an ace, you really don’t want to discard it. Check out what Tarik Skubal did for a solid but not always spectacular Detroit team that ultimately reached the playoffs and won its Wild Card Series as a prime example.

 

Gee, this sounds like a familiar argument, right?

I get the devil's advoate approach used here, but with how putrid the club's offense is and will be moving forward I am not sure how they could justify not cashing Crochet in for position prospects?

Why would Crochet want to resign here vs be dealt and sign with a contender? 

[Tony]

57 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

I get the devil's advoate approach used here, but with how putrid the club's offense is and will be moving forward I am not sure how they could justify not cashing Crochet in for position prospects?

Why would Crochet want to resign here vs be dealt and sign with a contender? 

IMO, there would be a compelling pitch to be made to Crochet that would be somewhat unique to the White Sox, and that would be significantly front loading the contract extension. The Sox payroll should be historically low the next 2 seasons, Crochet is still just 25. Additionally, it's objectively true he's dealt with injuries and missed significant time during his career, which creates risk for both Crochet and the team signing him to an extension. A front loaded deal gets him paid more, faster, and creates payroll flexibility for the White Sox in 2027-2028 when theoretically the team is in a position to compete, and Crochet is still 28-29 years old. 

[Tnetennba]

15 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I can imagine that quite easily, it’s a probably weaker version of the Mariners the last couple years.

With an owner even more risk averse and reluctant to spend.

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, Tony said:

IMO, there would be a somewhat compelling pitch to be made to Crochet that would be somewhat unique to the White Sox, and that would be significantly front loading the contract extension. The Sox payroll should be historically low the next 2 seasons, Crochet is still just 25. Additionally, it's objectively true he's dealt with injuries and missed significant time during his career, which creates risk for both Crochet and the team signing him to an extension. A front loaded deal gets him paid more, faster, and creates payroll flexibility for the White Sox in 2027-2028 when theoretically the team is in a position to compete, and Crochet is still 28-29 years old. 

In theory, a front loaded contract would make a ton of sense if Garrett wanted to move some of his future earnings forward, while taking a slight haircut on future earnings.  The main problem here is ownership seems to think we are the Oakland A's when it comes to payroll, plus we have zero future in terms of a complete offensive team which is currently projectable in the next three to five years to turn Crochet into something other than 1987 Nolan Ryan  or 1972 Steve Carlton in terms of putting up insane pitching numbers on historically awful offensive situations.

[Tony]

19 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

In theory, a front loaded contract would make a ton of sense if Garrett wanted to move some of his future earnings forward, while taking a slight haircut on future earnings.  The main problem here is ownership seems to think we are the Oakland A's when it comes to payroll, plus we have zero future in terms of a complete offensive team which is currently projectable in the next three to five years to turn Crochet into something other than 1987 Nolan Ryan  or 1972 Steve Carlton in terms of putting up insane pitching numbers on historically awful offensive situations.

I obviously don't think it happens because of the items you listed, but I do think the concept still makes sense, in addition to the idea of trading away a 25 year old arm like Crochet is generally a mistake, especially when it's for lottery tickets and the track record the White Sox have in player development. 

[steveno89]

14 minutes ago, Tony said:

I obviously don't think it happens because of the items you listed, but I do think the concept still makes sense, in addition to the idea of trading away a 25 year old arm like Crochet is generally a mistake, especially when it's for lottery tickets and the track record the White Sox have in player development. 

I really like Crochet, let me start with that

I also feel like there is more risk for the White Sox in an extension at this point than reward with him being two years removed from free agency and a limited track record as a starting pitcher

Even a theoretical front loaded contract would still likely require opt outs that favor Crochet, and I just dop not see the club being competitive for the next two seasons any way you slice it. 

[almagest]

33 minutes ago, Tony said:

I obviously don't think it happens because of the items you listed, but I do think the concept still makes sense, in addition to the idea of trading away a 25 year old arm like Crochet is generally a mistake, especially when it's for lottery tickets and the track record the White Sox have in player development. 

The hope I have is that Getz is bringing what appear to be talented people here to help rectify the awful position player development record the Sox have. They may be better off going for a large quantity of lower level promise instead of top 100 guys on the cusp, especially because those top 100 guys just aren't available it seems, unless they're in free fall like Vargas. Hopefully the Sox learn from that mistake.