Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[steveno89]

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

Could you get a backend top 100 for him though?

Probably a guy in a teams 7-10 prospect range if I had to guess 

[Tony]

6 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Actually he has very little job security.

If Getz was anything other than a moron, he'd realize he's one very old man not waking up the next morning away from being unemployable in baseball unless he actually makes some decent decisions. 

If he truly feels no pressure than he's an even bigger idiot than we think. 

But that's true if he does a great job or a poor job. Unless Getz performs a literal miracle in the next two seasons, he's going to have one of the worst W-L records of all-time as a GM, and if Jerry were to go in the next 2-3 years, the entire FO would almost certainly be replaced. 

The point, and it's a correct one...the odds are incredibly high Chris Getz will be the last GM Jerry has as owner of the White Sox. 

[46DidIt]

45 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Oh, no don't get me wrong, I think it is an absolutely idiotic idea, but based on the previous reports of them trying to include Benny at the deadline, it adds up as the framework of a larger deal.

There was no previous report of them trying to add him to trade offers. The report was that another team offered to take him in tdl deal that didn’t happen

[southsider2k5]

33 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Actually he has very little job security.

If Getz was anything other than a moron, he'd realize he's one very old man not waking up the next morning away from being unemployable in baseball unless he actually makes some decent decisions. 

If he truly feels no pressure than he's an even bigger idiot than we think. 

That's true for literally anyone at any job.  As long Jerry is alive, this job is Getz.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, steveno89 said:

I would be surprised if the Sox took back players who have already burned service time as the main pieces in return

Logic would suggest prospects who have not had their clocks started yet is in the Sox best interests

Getz might just be dumb enough to think this hypothetical return is a quick fix short cut to being decent again. We can never underestimate the stupidity of a Reinsdorf front office.

[Tnetennba]

1 hour ago, steveno89 said:

The Sox are a disater, and watering down the trade return of your best trade asset would be criminal 

You have to receive prospects with blue chip upside if you are moving him

Didn't we say the same thing about Cease?

[SoCalChiSox]

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's true for literally anyone at any job.  As long Jerry is alive, this job is Getz.

Nah....if he actually does a good job at being a GM rather than bring a mindless bootlicker he could have a future in baseball post Jerry. 

Evidently he doesn't care about that, though. 

[bmags]

The red sox top ten update from BA had me salivate, such a bummer how expensive position prospects are in deals like this.

[steveno89]

16 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Didn't we say the same thing about Cease?

We did

Jury is still out on that trade, but does not seem like a great deal for the Sox 

[TheFutureIsNear]

8 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

We did

Jury is still out on that trade, but does not seem like a great deal for the Sox 

I think there is also an aspect where fans need to adjust expectations. Teams just aren’t unloading top prospects like they used to

[46DidIt]

26 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Didn't we say the same thing about Cease?

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

[steveno89]

9 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

I like Thorpe, and think he can have a nice career as a starting pitcher

His ceiling is likely a #3 at best and more likely a solid #4 due to the below average fastball 

He is a good prospect, but not the sort of pitcher a club like the Padres would be scared to move

 

Iriarte is still a question mark on if he is a starter or reliever. His stuff regressed a bit and the velocity dipped in 2024.

 

Zavala looked overmatched as a younster vs high A pitching. He has to make more contact if there is a MLB future. 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

I would define any pitching prospect not in the top 15-20 as "not blue chip". 

[bmags]

9 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

I would define any pitching prospect not in the top 15-20 as "not blue chip". 

[Fielder Jones]

3 hours ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Probably need to start a Luis Robert trade discussion thread.

Though, article makes it sound more like it wont actually happen. we want a lot in a downyear

[Tnetennba]

28 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

A pitching prospect with more than a good Change Up with no velocity to change off of?

[GreenSox]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

It sure sounds like the Phillies ran Bohm by Getz. Why would Getz be asking about Bohm if they're concerned about his 2024 2nd half?

Why in the world would anyone think that the White Sox would consider Bohm when he has the exact same length of control as crochet does.  They would have to bring a third team in, but no team is going to give more than second or third tier prospects for an average player like Bohm.  

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, 46DidIt said:

How do you define blue chip? Thorpe was ranked in top 60 by BA and BP. 

He has mid rotation stuff.  So they traded 2 years of a TOR pitcher for 5/6 years of a pitcher who could end up in the middle of the rotation.  Need to stop trading on the other team's terms (which they also did with Bummer and Fedde/Kopech).  That's made more difficult  by the not so subtle message that they "have" to trade a particular player.  

[GreenSox]

1 hour ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

I think there is also an aspect where fans need to adjust expectations. Teams just aren’t unloading top prospects like they used to

That's true, but it's the front office that needs to figure out a different way to extract value, whether it's compensating with higher volume or something else.  

Maybe they can use the draft better; Cags was right there for the taking - high risk/high reward - and they went for the high risk/high reward pitcher.

Abreu, the guy that the RedSox apparently are peddling, was a non-descript prospect in a 2022 trade of Christian Vasquez to the Astros.  His RedSox debut was #23 on their prospect list.   The next year, he's in the majors..   A lot of that is luck, but you can put yourself in a better position to get lucky when you analyze, develop and scout well.

Edited November 25 by GreenSox

[steveno89]

13 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

That's true, but it's the front office that needs to figure out a different way to extract value, whether it's compensating with higher volume or something else.  

Maybe they can use the draft better; Cags was right there for the taking - high risk/high reward - and they went for the high risk/high reward pitcher.

Abreu, the guy that the RedSox apparently are peddling, was a non-descript prospect in a 2022 trade of Christian Vasquez to the Astros.  His RedSox debut was #23 on their prospect list.   The next year, he's in the majors..   A lot of that is luck, but you can put yourself in a better position to get lucky when you analyze, develop and scout well.

No question the Sox have to start making better moves if they want any hope of digging out from the mess that the organization is in

New manager and coaching staff could be the start of that, but nailing the Crochet deal is the next major step 

[JoeC]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox should do one of 2 things with Andrew.  Either release him and eat the money like a professional MLB franchise in 2025, or they should find a band contract for bad contract deal that gets them something they need more than Benny.

Or 3: trade him + cash considerations for a prospect.

I know Jerry would be giving up his favorite player (Cash Considerations)....

[GreenSox]

16 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Or 3: trade him + cash considerations for a prospect.

I know Jerry would be giving up his favorite player (Cash Considerations)....

Trade him to Philly for Walker.  May have to add some $ (Beni is owed $9 mill more).  If nothing else, Walker's contract ends after 2026 rather than 2027.

[JoeC]

2 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Trade him to Philly for Walker.  May have to add some $ (Beni is owed $9 mill more).  If nothing else, Walker's contract ends after 2026 rather than 2027.

On some level, it would make sense. Trading for a bounceback candidate who plays a position (pitcher) where the Sox seem to at least not suck at coaching / developing.

That said, Beni's 2nd half to me makes him more valuable than Walker.

[steveno89]

7 minutes ago, JoeC said:

On some level, it would make sense. Trading for a bounceback candidate who plays a position (pitcher) where the Sox seem to at least not suck at coaching / developing.

That said, Beni's 2nd half to me makes him more valuable than Walker.

Sox are in all liklihood stuck with Benintendi for the time being

They have to hope he can build off his much better second half and restablish some value in 2025 

[almagest]

52 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

He has mid rotation stuff.  So they traded 2 years of a TOR pitcher for 5/6 years of a pitcher who could end up in the middle of the rotation.  Need to stop trading on the other team's terms (which they also did with Bummer and Fedde/Kopech).  That's made more difficult  by the not so subtle message that they "have" to trade a particular player.  

Cease did not pitch like a TOR starter in 2023 and he only really showed that potential in 2022, so no matter how much fans or the White Sox valued him as one, other teams didn't. The Sox got roughly fair value for him - the question now is if they picked the right prospects to fill that value.