Chicago White Sox Posted December 6 Author Share Posted December 6 2 hours ago, fathom said: They’d be trading Castillo for Bellinger Seems a bad trade for the Mariners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Seems a bad trade for the Mariners. On the surface it seems like it, but when I looked at their numbers its closer than I thought. Cubs would definitely still need to give something else up though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 1 hour ago, fathom said: I can confirm that there is real interest from multiple teams Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 1 hour ago, fathom said: More than half the league has real interest in Crochet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Seems a bad trade for the Mariners. I could see the M's dealing Castillo's age 32-35 seasons for an offensive upgrade. I'm just not convinced that's Bellinger. I'd definitely want more in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: I could see the M's dealing Castillo's age 32-35 seasons for an offensive upgrade. I'm just not convinced that's Bellinger. I'd definitely want more in return. Agreed. Luis Castillo at 3-years / $68.25 million actually has value. Just look at what mediocre starters are signing for right now. Frankie Montas got 2-years / $34 million after a very mediocre season. Severino is a much better starter than Montas but about par with Castillo and just signed for a similar contract as to the money Castillo has remaining on his deal. However, Bellinger at 2-years / $52.5 million with his most recent performance (.751 OPS, 2.2 WAR) is a bloated deal that even contending teams likely won’t want. Edited December 6 by WhiteSox2023 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 24 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said: More than half the league has real interest in Crochet. Good. Now there's no excuse for failing to get at least 2 55 FV bats, at least one LH. No excuses. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Springfield Soxfan Posted December 6 Share Posted December 6 46 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said: Good. Now there's no excuse for failing to get at least 2 55 FV bats, at least one LH. No excuses. Agreed. No excuses. If a team will not give one of their top two prospects Getz should hang up phone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 1 hour ago, SoCalChiSox said: Good. Now there's no excuse for failing to get at least 2 55 FV bats, at least one LH. No excuses. When you see what pitchers are signing for, they should clean up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Princess Dye Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 4 hours ago, SoCalChiSox said: Good. Now there's no excuse for failing to get at least 2 55 FV bats, at least one LH. No excuses. The Sox will get a good haul but two 55s don't get traded at once, that's doesn't happen anymore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 20 hours ago, southsider2k5 said: 45 wins instead of 41. Awesome. This is not my point. If the Sox actually had some talent on this team, Cease and Crochet at the top of the rotation would be a real weapon. But the Sox don't want to pay either one. And if a franchise doesn't pay for real talent, it never becomes a winner. Trading for prospects gets old. Some prospects never pan out. Some do well but take a long time to develop. Every time the Sox get someone half-way decent, there is a speculation about flipping him. Well, the Sox flipped people last year, and they lost 121 games. A fan can't expect this team to be turned around in one season. But if the club doesn't spend some money to get some talent to make the team a little better, there is no reason to go out to the ballpark to watch what is essentially a minor league team. To hell with rebuilding and trading for prospects. If a franchise isn't willing to keep talent like Cease and Crochet, it isn't serious about winning and it will be rebuilding forever. This team is years away from even being a .500 team. It may never be a .500 team. I could care less about prospects that may never be quality major league players. Meanwhile, we have another 100-loss season to look forward to. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 7 Author Share Posted December 7 48 minutes ago, Highland said: This is not my point. If the Sox actually had some talent on this team, Cease and Crochet at the top of the rotation would be a real weapon. But the Sox don't want to pay either one. And if a franchise doesn't pay for real talent, it never becomes a winner. Trading for prospects gets old. Some prospects never pan out. Some do well but take a long time to develop. Every time the Sox get someone half-way decent, there is a speculation about flipping him. Well, the Sox flipped people last year, and they lost 121 games. A fan can't expect this team to be turned around in one season. But if the club doesn't spend some money to get some talent to make the team a little better, there is no reason to go out to the ballpark to watch what is essentially a minor league team. To hell with rebuilding and trading for prospects. If a franchise isn't willing to keep talent like Cease and Crochet, it isn't serious about winning and it will be rebuilding forever. This team is years away from even being a .500 team. It may never be a .500 team. I could care less about prospects that may never be quality major league players. Meanwhile, we have another 100-loss season to look forward to. Crochet was on the team last year and we were the worst team in baseball history. Adding Dylan Cease to it doesn’t suddenly make us competitive. The damage Jerry, KW, & Hahn have done to the org is practically unfathomable and that’s not an understatement. The key to being successful in Major League baseball is having a continuous pipeline of controllable, young talent. Under this past regime, we basically decided we wouldn’t be serious about adding talent from the Dominican Republic and instead would overpay for whatever Cuban talent became available and sign what we could out of less impactful countries like Venezuela and Panama. This has essentially left us with a lack of young LatAm talent coming into our farm, which is a massive disadvantage. Beyond that, we have under-invested in key functional areas like Player Development and Analytics. For years, we have been so far behind the times in using technology and data to develop our prospects and it shows with our hit rates. The vast majority of players drafted come in and make little progress before eventually flaming out. The really high end prospects may reach the show but usually come up ill prepared for the major league game. When you combine this with an empty LatAm pipeline you end up with a consistently bad farm system. All that being said, the single biggest way to improve our long-term outlook is to destroy the insular nature of the org. I am not a big Getz fan, but to his credit, he is going outside to bring many key people and those additions will come with fresh ideas and best practices. And when your foundation is rotten to its core, there is so much low hanging fruit that even an unqualified GM hire can make material improvements. However, those changes will take some time to bare fruit and we can’t rush that process. What that means is accepting defeat these couple seasons and running out a really bad product. Spending a bunch of money right now would be an exercise in futility and would in another failed outcome. A year or two from now is when you start being serious in free agency and add some win now prices. Until then enjoy a bad team lose a lot of games and hope we can identify a few surprises who can be a part of the next core. 3 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2Deep Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Crochet was on the team last year and we were the worst team in baseball history. Adding Dylan Cease to it doesn’t suddenly make us competitive. The damage Jerry, KW, & Hahn have done to the org is practically unfathomable and that’s not an understatement. The key to being successful in Major League baseball is having a continuous pipeline of controllable, young talent. Under this past regime, we basically decided we wouldn’t be serious about adding talent from the Dominican Republic and instead would overpay for whatever Cuban talent became available and sign what we could out of less impactful countries like Venezuela and Panama. This has essentially left us with a lack of young LatAm talent coming into our farm, which is a massive disadvantage. Beyond that, we have under-invested in key functional areas like Player Development and Analytics. For years, we have been so far behind the times in using technology and data to develop our prospects and it shows with our hit rates. The vast majority of players drafted come in and make little progress before eventually flaming out. The really high end prospects may reach the show but usually come up ill prepared for the major league game. When you combine this with an empty LatAm pipeline you end up with a consistently bad farm system. All that being said, the single biggest way to improve our long-term outlook is to destroy the insular nature of the org. I am not a big Getz fan, but to his credit, he is going outside to bring many key people and those additions will come with fresh ideas and best practices. And when your foundation is rotten to its core, there is so much low hanging fruit that even an unqualified GM hire can make material improvements. However, those changes will take some time to bare fruit and we can’t rush that process. What that means is accepting defeat these couple seasons and running out a really bad product. Spending a bunch of money right now would be an exercise in futility and would in another failed outcome. A year or two from now is when you start being serious in free agency and add some win now prices. Until then enjoy a bad team lose a lot of games and hope we can identify a few surprises who can be a part of the next core. What was eye opening to me is the last part of what you said, on the worst team in history there was not one person who surprised and could be considered somebody you move forward with as a core piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 Great, now everybody gets to delay to the opening of Spring Training on the hope that Sasaki wants their $7 million over everyone else's. News: Japanese right-hander Roki Sasaki is expected to be officially posted at Major League Baseball’s winter meetings, opening a 45-day window Tuesday that will allow him to sign after Jan. 15, 2025, sources told ESPN. Story, free and unlocked, at ESPN: https://t.co/rvyFTBrMHf — Jeff Passan (@JeffPassan) December 7, 2024 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said: What that means is accepting defeat these couple seasons and running out a really bad product. Spending a bunch of money right now would be an exercise in futility and would in another failed outcome. A year or two from now is when you start being serious in free agency and add some win now prices. Until then enjoy a bad team lose a lot of games and hope we can identify a few surprises who can be a part of the next core. One caveat. If you could find a player in his mid 20s who probably has a hall of fame career still coming and who might be effective in 2040, taking advantage of your super low payroll to sign this guy early would be a smart move even if your team is a year or two away. The Phillies and Padres fully demonstrated this with Harper and Machado, and now those contracts look fine or even like bargains. I wonder if there’s a player right now who would fit this description. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted December 7 Author Share Posted December 7 4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: One caveat. If you could find a player in his mid 20s who probably has a hall of fame career still coming and who might be effective in 2040, taking advantage of your super low payroll to sign this guy early would be a smart move even if your team is a year or two away. The Phillies and Padres fully demonstrated this with Harper and Machado, and now those contracts look fine or even like bargains. I wonder if there’s a player right now who would fit this description. We are a year or two away from normal bad. Signing Soto a $700M+ contract right now doesn’t make much sense IMO and that contract will never be the steal that the Harper / Machado ones were. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be ecstatic if we signed him, but I can’t really fault Getz for not pursuing Soto right now even if we assume a theoretical Reinsdorf doesn’t exist world. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 22 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: We are a year or two away from normal bad. Signing Soto a $700M+ contract right now doesn’t make much sense IMO and that contract will never be the steal that the Harper / Machado ones were. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be ecstatic if we signed him, but I can’t really fault Getz for not pursuing Soto right now even if we assume a theoretical Reinsdorf doesn’t exist world. Agree about those deals looking like steals. Only way would be if you could defer a lot of it so the AAV on the luxury tax is lower like the dodgers did with Ohtani. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 26 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: One caveat. If you could find a player in his mid 20s who probably has a hall of fame career still coming and who might be effective in 2040, taking advantage of your super low payroll to sign this guy early would be a smart move even if your team is a year or two away. The Phillies and Padres fully demonstrated this with Harper and Machado, and now those contracts look fine or even like bargains. I wonder if there’s a player right now who would fit this description. Juan Soto will not be "effective" in 2040. Two of the greatest hitters of our time, Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols - the last half dozen years of their multi-year deals were under water, with their teams stowing them at DH for negative value. Harper and Machado are settling in to their 2-5 WAR careers, now, giving back value on defense, or moving to less challenging positions. 2-3 of Soto's initial great years will be spent toiling on losing teams. Then you'll have a LF for 3-6 seasons, giving you anywhere between 2-5 WAR. That's a great player to have, but if we can't develop that for somewhere less than $700 million, then I need to pick another sport to waste my time on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 4 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Agree about those deals looking like steals. Only way would be if you could defer a lot of it so the AAV on the luxury tax is lower like the dodgers did with Ohtani. Naw, payroll is so low right now there’s no reason to defer anything. Fan interest is also so low right now that a large chunk of his deal will pay for itself in the first few years even if they’re still poor. The one thing you can’t give him is a full No Trade Clause, because in 5 years you might want out if that deal and you could probably cash him in for a strong prospect if needed, and if you haven’t deferred anything then that makes him easier to trade if he comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 7 minutes ago, WestEddy said: Juan Soto will not be "effective" in 2040. Two of the greatest hitters of our time, Miguel Cabrera and Albert Pujols - the last half dozen years of their multi-year deals were under water, with their teams stowing them at DH for negative value. Harper and Machado are settling in to their 2-5 WAR careers, now, giving back value on defense, or moving to less challenging positions. 2-3 of Soto's initial great years will be spent toiling on losing teams. Then you'll have a LF for 3-6 seasons, giving you anywhere between 2-5 WAR. That's a great player to have, but if we can't develop that for somewhere less than $700 million, then I need to pick another sport to waste my time on. And yet guys including Carlos Santana and Justin Turner have remained effective at least average players into their late 30s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 13 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: And yet guys including Carlos Santana and Justin Turner have remained effective at least average players into their late 30s. Finding outliers doesn't mean we can apply their unique abilities to every single baseball player. Whoever winds up servicing the last 5 years of Soto's mega deal would be delirious to get 2 slightly better than average seasons in that span out of their full time DH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey21 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said: We are a year or two away from normal bad. Signing Soto a $700M+ contract right now doesn’t make much sense IMO and that contract will never be the steal that the Harper / Machado ones were. Don’t get me wrong, I’d be ecstatic if we signed him, but I can’t really fault Getz for not pursuing Soto right now even if we assume a theoretical Reinsdorf doesn’t exist world. If the Bryce Harper/Manny Machado sweepstakes were happening now in 2024 and they were 27 years old, how much would they be getting? My point being that I think 5 years from now we’re going to look at Soto’s contract as a steal, all the more reason Jerry Reinsdorf like 20 other owners should not be allowed to own a professional sports team in 2025 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 6 minutes ago, Rey21 said: If the Bryce Harper/Manny Machado sweepstakes were happening now in 2024 and they were 27 years old, how much would they be getting? My point being that I think 5 years from now we’re going to look at Soto’s contract as a steal, all the more reason Jerry Reinsdorf like 20 other owners should not be allowed to own a professional sports team in 2025 For the same reason that every first time home buyer is soiling themselves at closing, but in 3 years, those mortgage payments don't hurt so bad anymore. They make more money, and inflation has pushed the cost of a new home higher than when they purchased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 9 minutes ago, Rey21 said: If the Bryce Harper/Manny Machado sweepstakes were happening now in 2024 and they were 27 years old, how much would they be getting? My point being that I think 5 years from now we’re going to look at Soto’s contract as a steal, all the more reason Jerry Reinsdorf like 20 other owners should not be allowed to own a professional sports team in 2025 Weren’t they 26-year old free agents at the time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted December 7 Share Posted December 7 20 hours ago, Rey21 said: I can confirm that there is real interest from multiple teams You sound like an insider. You should start an X account. I suggest “Lou Malnati’s Deep Dish” as your profile name. I don’t think that one has been taken yet. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts