Potential Crochet Trade discussion Thread

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

Think about this: Cease and Crochet at the top of the White Sox rotation.

45 wins instead of 41.  Awesome.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

Think about this: Cease and Crochet at the top of the White Sox rotation.

Still not scoring runs

[JoeC]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Still not scoring runs

Can't Cease hit for himself under the new Ohtani rules?

Instant offensive upgrade over probably half of our existing lineup.

[Bob Sacamano]

14 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Can't Cease hit for himself under the new Ohtani rules?

Instant offensive upgrade over probably half of our existing lineup.

You're onto something here.

[JoeC]

47 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

You're onto something here.

Fun fact... if anyone plays Immaculate Grid, Dylan Cease is a nice obscure answer for any Sox player who has hit .300 or more in a season.

[Chicago White Sox]

Merkin keeps suggesting that Getz is targeting a SS in a Crochet return.  While you can never have too many SS prospects, I do think it lends some credence to the Montgomery is a 3B talk.

Edited Friday at 07:14 PM by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Merkin keeps suggesting that Getz is targeting a SS in a Crochet return.  While you can never have too many SS prospects, I do think it lends credence to the Montgomery is a 3B talk.

Or the worries about Montgomery are legitimate.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Or the worries about Montgomery are legitimate.

That’s exactly what I’m saying.  Again, SS’s can move anywhere, we all know this, but our OF talent in the system is atrocious.  An elite CF or RF to headline a deal would be just as good IMO as a legit SS prospect given where we stand today.

[southsider2k5]

7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

That’s exactly what I’m saying.  Again, SS’s can move anywhere, we all know this, but our OF talent in the system is atrocious.  An elite CF or RF to headline a deal would be just as good IMO as a legit SS prospect given where we stand today.

Specifically I am not talking about him not being able to defensively handle SS, I am talking about his not being able to hit a velocity fastball.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Specifically I am not talking about him not being able to defensively handle SS, I am talking about his not being able to hit a velocity fastball.

Oh gotcha

[Tnetennba]

21 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Bellinger Hoerner package to M’s?

M's ownership is pretty cheap, absorbing Bellinger's money is probably a no go unless they find a taker for Haniger.

[Rey21]

24 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Merkin keeps suggesting that Getz is targeting a SS in a Crochet return.  While you can never have too many SS prospects, I do think it lends some credence to the Montgomery is a 3B talk.

If Aidan Miller is ever on the table - Crochet is playing in Philly next year 

[fathom]

37 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

M's ownership is pretty cheap, absorbing Bellinger's money is probably a no go unless they find a taker for Haniger.

They’d be trading Castillo for Bellinger 

[almagest]

7 minutes ago, fathom said:

They’d be trading Castillo for Bellinger 

That is much more of a fair trade than my initial knee jerk reaction thought it was.

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, almagest said:

That is much more of a fair trade than my initial knee jerk reaction thought it was.

Me too lol only thing is Luis Castillo is signed for 3 years + vesting option and Bellinger is signed for another year plus has a player option for the following year. I feel like the Mariners would need something else.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

6 hours ago, WestEddy said:

We all talked about this in the summer. Why would Crochet sign a reasonably priced extension? I could see getting one extra year to guarantee the arb years, and 3/$45 would probably be cheap. All he has to do is wait his 2 seasons, stay healthy, and he's in the money. 

His concern about the extension was mostly about last year, throwing starter innings for the first time, then being relied upon to pitch well into the playoffs. 

I think I explained all already in detail in previous posts. Do you think he can do 2 years of elite quality starting pitching and stay healthy standing on his head ? There's a huge downside risk that could be the difference between making $10M for 2 years and $200M or more.

God forbid he bets on himself and he gets so injured that's he's never the same.Common sense would say sign an extension asap while youre at the top of your game but leave an out for you to make more. if everything goes right for 3 years youre into huge money. If everything goes wrong you're talking out of baseball or always injured and chasing money. You just can't slough off 2 years of pitching as if there's no risk involved.

All he has to do is sign a 1 year extension and do whatever with opt outs if he wants more years. He could probably get the 2 remaining arb years bought out and the extra year and get $60M easy. It's just a difference of 1 year. Why gamble with the 1st 2 years when you can get paid for them plus another year.  Even if you do blow your arm out at least you get $60M instead of $10M. These are all just hypothetical dollar guesses.

He would still be a FA at 28 with $60M already banked with a huge contract waiting. All you're doing is mitigating the risk and banking an extra $50M for 1 more year of servitude.

I have no idea why he wouldn't want to do this. He's not hurting his big money chances at all. Seems like a no brainier to me. Explain to me how it costs him money ?

 

Edited Friday at 08:47 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Merkin keeps suggesting that Getz is targeting a SS in a Crochet return.  While you can never have too many SS prospects, I do think it lends some credence to the Montgomery is a 3B talk.

That makes sense then.  They must think Montgomery will get bigger as he ages.

[PaleAleSox]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

That makes sense then.  They must think Montgomery will get bigger as he ages.

It also just gives you more flexibility. SS can usually translate to any position pretty well.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

It doesn’t happen. They would get an exclusive 2 years to negotiate an extension. Why would a team give up more if they don’t have to?

TB signed Glasnow to a $25M 1 yr contract then traded him and the trade was contigent on being extended by the Dodgers. Glasnow hadn't ever put up more than 120 inning. Crochet pitched 146 in his 1st year of starting. Dodgers extended Glasnow 5 more years.

Why would a team give up more when they don't have to ? Because he could be at the  top of your rotation leading you to multiple World Series wins. Its the same reason why you sign free agents only Crochet would still be a relative bargain. All it takes is 1 team. The Orioles aren't any better off having had Burns for a year. The longer you have elite talent the longer your window.

Teams extend  and buy out arbitration years all the time .The Sox did it with Moncada ,  Eloy and Robert didn't they ?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

If you were trading for Crochet wouldn't you want him for more than 2 years if he was willing to sign a  reasonably priced extension if only for another year guaranteed then another couple years but with opt outs.

While many players take the stance of betting on themselves Crochet and his agent have to know you weigh the risk of pitching for 2 more years for maybe $10M and ending up with less future $ if you get hurt or underperform vs signing for close to $100M to get 10 x as much while getting opt outs to possibly make $200M+  best case scenario. Worst case scenario is saying I'll take the risk I'm a healthy great pitcher for 2 more years and then youre not and you end up getting a bare minimum pension.

Why not get paid $20-25M   per year for the next 3 years if you can get it then opt out if you live up to the hype and then get a $200M contract. It's a lot better than getting  $10M for 2 years of service time while risking all your future paychecks.  If he does this right and becomes elite he could amass over $300M.

Most teams don't operate like the White Sox. If they wanted to trade for Crochet with the intent to sign him, they'll just do that without the Sox offering them some extension period.

[WhiteSox2023]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

TB signed Glasnow to a $25M 1 yr contract then traded him and the trade was contigent on being extended by the Dodgers. Glasnow hadn't ever put up more than 120 inning. Crochet pitched 146 in his 1st year of starting. Dodgers extended Glasnow 5 more years.

Why would a team give up more when they don't have to ? Because he could be at the  top of your rotation leading you to multiple World Series wins. Its the same reason why you sign free agents only Crochet would still be a relative bargain. All it takes is 1 team. The Orioles aren't any better off having had Burns for a year. The longer you have elite talent the longer your window.

Teams extend  and buy out arbitration years all the time .The Sox did it with Moncada ,  Eloy and Robert didn't they ?

Yep, and those extensions sure paid off…

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Most teams don't operate like the White Sox. If they wanted to trade for Crochet with the intent to sign him, they'll just do that without the Sox offering them some extension period.

Yep.

[Bob Sacamano]

39 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

TB signed Glasnow to a $25M 1 yr contract then traded him and the trade was contigent on being extended by the Dodgers. Glasnow hadn't ever put up more than 120 inning. Crochet pitched 146 in his 1st year of starting. Dodgers extended Glasnow 5 more years.

Why would a team give up more when they don't have to ? Because he could be at the  top of your rotation leading you to multiple World Series wins. Its the same reason why you sign free agents only Crochet would still be a relative bargain. All it takes is 1 team. The Orioles aren't any better off having had Burns for a year. The longer you have elite talent the longer your window.

Teams extend  and buy out arbitration years all the time .The Sox did it with Moncada ,  Eloy and Robert didn't they ?

Don't think I've ever heard of an extension window to negotiate with another team for multiple years of arbitration.

It may sound like a good idea but zero chance it happens.

Edited Friday at 09:44 PM by Bob Sacamano

[fathom]

 

[Bob Sacamano]

41 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Most teams don't operate like the White Sox. If they wanted to trade for Crochet with the intent to sign him, they'll just do that without the Sox offering them some extension period.

Exactly. A team would be dumb to pay a premium for a small window of time when you can just trade for him and then buy out his 2 arb years or give a big extension. Also, Crochet might agree to a deal that buys out those 2 arb years, but he ain't giving up a year of free agency when he's set to be a FA at like 27. He would sign a bigger deal than that.

Glasnow example: how much more did the Rays really get in that deal for the Dodgers opportunity to pay him $150M over 5 years? Really don't think it's that much of a difference. It's not adding that much value to it.

I think some people are reading way too into Crochet's extension comments around the trade deadline where he was trying to leverage himself pitching in the playoffs in a year he was way past what people thought he would pitch innings wise for guaranteed money.

Edited Friday at 09:53 PM by Bob Sacamano