Roki Sasaki Free Agency - White Sox have a presentation

[Harry Chappas]

2 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

You can not have faith in him, that's fine. But he is very much doing your first sentence. 

They just had a historically bad season and he put the product together.  There is tanking and then there is what last year was.  He seems to be hiring people that other people like but have any of them had success in the position they were hired for.

The guy from Arizona couldn't seem to properly evaluate a player he oversaw.  

[Harry Chappas]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

That was all standard GM speak that every single GM in every single sport says. Of course he knew we were going to suck. He's been getting rid of every single asset possible and replacing them with replacement level players, at best. This is a teardown and rebuild situation.

He failed miserably in his role in the last rebuild and handed the new job hence the reason he gets no leeway. 

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

They just had a historically bad season and he put the product together.  There is tanking and then there is what last year was.  He seems to be hiring people that other people like but have any of them had success in the position they were hired for.

The guy from Arizona couldn't seem to properly evaluate a player he oversaw.  

I know we are seeing the white washing of the 2024 season into they knew this was happening all along, but if you actually watched the moves made in real time, and then the panic that took over when the Sox were a couple of months into a 40 win pace, this was not on purpose.  I don't care what we are told, you don't make the moves the Sox made for, and in, the 2024 season if you know you are going to lose 100+ games, let alone 121.

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

They just had a historically bad season and he put the product together.  There is tanking and then there is what last year was.  He seems to be hiring people that other people like but have any of them had success in the position they were hired for.

The guy from Arizona couldn't seem to properly evaluate a player he oversaw.  

Teams generally don't grant permission for another team to interview their personnel for lateral hires. They only grant permission for positions that would be a promotion. Teams don't generally hire a GM to run their player development to prove he's had success doing it before. 

[Tony]

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Agreed. It's very weird. 

Stop it. I would like to think you're smarter than that. 

"There's not much point in being a fan if we think everything they do is bound to fail."

How do you think fans got there? This organization started rebuilding in 2016, after having below .500 seasons in 2015, 2014, and 2013 when they were "trying to win" and the results of that rebuild netted the Sox 2 playoff victories. They now are on their next rebuild, coming off the worst season in MLB history. 

But White Sox fans saying "We'll believe it when we see it" are the weird ones? Are you out of your fucking mind? 

[Snopek]

15 minutes ago, Tony said:

Stop it. I would like to think you're smarter than that. 

"There's not much point in being a fan if we think everything they do is bound to fail."

How do you think fans got there? This organization started rebuilding in 2016, after having below .500 seasons in 2015, 2014, and 2013 when they were "trying to win" and the results of that rebuild netted the Sox 2 playoff victories. They now are on their next rebuild, coming off the worst season in MLB history. 

But White Sox fans saying "We'll believe it when we see it" are the weird ones? Are you out of your fucking mind? 

Sure, but “we’ll believe it when we see it” and “everything they do is bound to fail” are two completely different sentiments.

Every single Sox fan should be saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” That’s the exact skepticism that’s warranted with this dumb ass organization.

But assuming everything they do will fail is not even skepticism, that’s just nihilism, which, why even bother at that point.

[Kyyle23]

6 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Sure, but “we’ll believe it when we see it” and “everything they do is bound to fail” are two completely different sentiments.

Every single Sox fan should be saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” That’s the exact skepticism that’s warranted with this dumb ass organization.

But assuming everything they do will fail is not even skepticism, that’s just nihilism, which, why even bother at that point.

Gonna be honest about that last sentence. Feels like there are a lot of people that are asking themselves right now that very question “why bother?” And they don’t know.

every single one of us knows Lucy is gonna pull the football as soon as it’s time to get out the check book

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Sure, but “we’ll believe it when we see it” and “everything they do is bound to fail” are two completely different sentiments.

Every single Sox fan should be saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” That’s the exact skepticism that’s warranted with this dumb ass organization.

But assuming everything they do will fail is not even skepticism, that’s just nihilism, which, why even bother at that point.

The game of the sycophants right now is to take "we'll believe it when we see it" and say it actually is people saying "everything will fail".

I will give you one example. I have no idea how this stadium setup works out with the team staying in Chicago. The only options I can plausibly come up with are: the government caves at the last minute and gives Reinsdorf the most expensive stadium in baseball, Reinsdorf suddenly has his heart grow three sizes and funds a reasonable portion of the stadium construction himself, or the team moves or is sold. The only way I can foresee the team staying in Chicago is if they're sold in the next couple years to a group that wants to keep them in Chicago, and everyone has said Reinsdorf doesn't want to sell until after his death due tot he taxes.

If you can tell, I think both of the first 2 options seem exceedingly unlikely. Is this "everything is bound to fail" or is that a proper reading of the current setup?

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Sure, but “we’ll believe it when we see it” and “everything they do is bound to fail” are two completely different sentiments.

Every single Sox fan should be saying “I’ll believe it when I see it.” That’s the exact skepticism that’s warranted with this dumb ass organization.

But assuming everything they do will fail is not even skepticism, that’s just nihilism, which, why even bother at that point.

You guys do realize that this fanbase is at a generational low, right?  Like their ratings are near zero, their attendance has fallen to levels not seen in this millennium.  There are a ton of Sox fans who have gotten to the point where they aren't bothering at all.  I didn't go to a single game all year.  I watched less baseball than I have watch since the years immediate following the 1994 strike.

I think people are taking the doubt in the sunshine and rainbows of this group and combining with the history of having been this exact same plate of spam many times before, and expressing it when being told this time it is all different. 

[WestEddy]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The game of the sycophants right now is to take "we'll believe it when we see it" and say it actually is people saying "everything will fail".

The multiple quote button is hidden under an ad banner, so I just cut and paste:

Quote

Liptak 19 hours ago:
When all is said and done this will simply be another opportunity for the Sox organization to say, "we had a seat at the table...we tried..." without any real chance to succeed.

WhiteSox2023 19 hours ago:
If they weren’t such a joke of a team with a joke of an owner, they’d have a chance at signing international players like Sasaki, but they have neglected this area for years and aren’t a desirable location to land in. 

Dick Allen 8 hours ago:
It’s not overkill to think the probability is the White Sox will f*** up whatever they are doing.

Dick Allen 8 hours ago:
Of course they should try to sign him, but they are the reason they have no chance.

SS2k5 3 hours ago:
Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.

No, Balta, these people aren't saying, "I'll believe it when I see it". They are pretty much saying "everything will fail". 

I don't care if you believe that everything will fail. I don't care if y'all want it to. But you people say things, lie about it, and then accuse the people trying to make sense out of your gaslighting of being bootlickers and sycophants. 

Now go ahead and accuse me of calling you names, secretly wanting to make passionate love to Chris Getz, all while actually being Chris Getz. Oh, and say that everybody gets to call us names, and lie about our motivations because their baseball team has been bad. Jesus, grow up and stop lying, already. 

[Tony]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The multiple quote button is hidden under an ad banner, so I just cut and paste:

No, Balta, these people aren't saying, "I'll believe it when I see it". They are pretty much saying "everything will fail". 

I don't care if you believe that everything will fail. I don't care if y'all want it to. But you people say things, lie about it, and then accuse the people trying to make sense out of your gaslighting of being bootlickers and sycophants. 

Now go ahead and accuse me of calling you names, secretly wanting to make passionate love to Chris Getz, all while actually being Chris Getz. Oh, and say that everybody gets to call us names, and lie about our motivations because their baseball team has been bad. Jesus, grow up and stop lying, already. 

I'm trying to spot any inaccuracies with the people you quoted, and can't seem to find any. 

Quote

When all is said and done this will simply be another opportunity for the Sox organization to say, "we had a seat at the table...we tried..." without any real chance to succeed.

When have the Sox spoken to a top tier free agent and converted? Albert Belle? 

Quote

If they weren’t such a joke of a team with a joke of an owner, they’d have a chance at signing international players like Sasaki, but they have neglected this area for years and aren’t a desirable location to land in. 

They lost the most games in MLB history last season, the opinion on Jerry is subjective (I guess) and given the amount of dollars needed for Sasaki, and again being the worst team in MLB history last year, I don't see the lie in "aren't a desirable location" 

Quote

It’s not overkill to think the probability is the White Sox will f*** up whatever they are doing.

Really not a lot of analysis needed. The Sox are 102-222 in the last two years, and the o/u for wins in 2025 has to be like 55? 

I could go on...but here is the other point. If the Sox were to sign Sasaki, everyone here would be ecstatic and for good reason. They are adding high end talent and investing serious resources in the product on the field. I, along with most others, would happily eat crow. Would love to. But based on what historical data tells me, I'm not saving room in my stomach for a crow burger in the near future. 

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Tony said:

I'm trying to spot any inaccuracies with the people you quoted, and can't seem to find any. 

When have the Sox spoken to a top tier free agent and converted? Albert Belle? 

They lost the most games in MLB history last season, the opinion on Jerry is subjective (I guess) and given the amount of dollars needed for Sasaki, and again being the worst team in MLB history last year, I don't see the lie in "aren't a desirable location" 

Really not a lot of analysis needed. The Sox are 102-222 in the last two years, and the o/u for wins in 2025 has to be like 55? 

I could go on...but here is the other point. If the Sox were to sign Sasaki, everyone here would be ecstatic and for good reason. They are adding high end talent and investing serious resources in the product on the field. I, along with most others, would happily eat crow. Would love to. But based on what historical data tells me, I'm not saving room in my stomach for a crow burger in the near future. 

Dude, there's 3-4 mods here who turn every single string into an "Everything Chris Getz has ever done in his life failed" string. Then you blame us trying to make sense of or correct the obvious BS. Now you're going to drag out this string arguing that people saying something won't happen, aren't actually saying that something won't happen. I guess that's a desperate way to pad out these posts and look busy. 

You're right. Because the White Sox lost an historic number of games last year, all the dour folks get to make up their own facts, lie about what they said, and call those of us not joining in names. Again, just be honest about it. Stop gaslighting. 

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Dude, there's 3-4 mods here who turn every single string into an "Everything Chris Getz has ever done in his life failed" string. Then you blame us trying to make sense of or correct the obvious BS. Now you're going to drag out this string arguing that people saying something won't happen, aren't actually saying that something won't happen. I guess that's a desperate way to pad out these posts and look busy. 

You're right. Because the White Sox lost an historic number of games last year, all the dour folks get to make up their own facts, lie about what they said, and call those of us not joining in names. Again, just be honest about it. Stop gaslighting. 

You telling people to stop gaslighting is highly entertaining, as is pretending that you aren't responding to all of these posts like you are being paid to put out propaganda.  If you don't like the threads, don't respond.  No one is holding you hostage... or are they?

[Quin]

I love the "why be a fan" schtick cause it's gaslighting people.

People are fans because Chris Getz and Jerry Reinsdorf aren't eternal. The reality is that Reinsdorf is going to sell the team or die in the next decade. Chris Getz's tenure will likely end with him being fired by his successor, even if he has some modicum of success, because he probably  won't turn into a Top 5 GM in the sport.

Bluntly: If you're spouting this nonsense, you should just ignore all negative opinions in all of sports forever, because you're criticizing fans for being skeptical of a historically bad owner (outside of inheriting Michael Jordan) and a GM who has proven absolutely nothing. 

The defense for Getz has always been that he was hamstrung in his old job. Then why did he deserve this one, with no job search? He didn't.

His hires, on paper, look good. The previous rebuild, on paper, looked fucking great until it didn't.

Like Tony stated: I'll eat crow if Getz can actually achieve something. Signing Roki? That would be a massive implication that they're actually selling players on their plan outside of past-their-prime journeymen. Then we're talking. 

But is the inverse true? If Getz marches this team to another 100 losses are we going to hear another round of "he has limitations that no one has ever had to deal with ever before in the sport"?

[Tony]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Dude, there's 3-4 mods here who turn every single string into an "Everything Chris Getz has ever done in his life failed" string. Then you blame us trying to make sense of or correct the obvious BS. Now you're going to drag out this string arguing that people saying something won't happen, aren't actually saying that something won't happen. I guess that's a desperate way to pad out these posts and look busy. 

You're right. Because the White Sox lost an historic number of games last year, all the dour folks get to make up their own facts, lie about what they said, and call those of us not joining in names. Again, just be honest about it. Stop gaslighting. 

For as much as you cry about everyone else here, you continue to engage with those people. So either stop engaging, or quit crying about the same thing you claim everyone else is. 

[WestEddy]

45 minutes ago, Quin said:

I love the "why be a fan" schtick cause it's gaslighting people.

People are fans because Chris Getz and Jerry Reinsdorf aren't eternal. The reality is that Reinsdorf is going to sell the team or die in the next decade. Chris Getz's tenure will likely end with him being fired by his successor, even if he has some modicum of success, because he probably  won't turn into a Top 5 GM in the sport.

Bluntly: If you're spouting this nonsense, you should just ignore all negative opinions in all of sports forever, because you're criticizing fans for being skeptical of a historically bad owner (outside of inheriting Michael Jordan) and a GM who has proven absolutely nothing. 

The defense for Getz has always been that he was hamstrung in his old job. Then why did he deserve this one, with no job search? He didn't.

His hires, on paper, look good. The previous rebuild, on paper, looked fucking great until it didn't.

Like Tony stated: I'll eat crow if Getz can actually achieve something. Signing Roki? That would be a massive implication that they're actually selling players on their plan outside of past-their-prime journeymen. Then we're talking. 

But is the inverse true? If Getz marches this team to another 100 losses are we going to hear another round of "he has limitations that no one has ever had to deal with ever before in the sport"?

I don't see people being criticized for "being skeptical". I see people criticized for turning every move into multiple "Chris Getz is in over his head, he sucks" posts every day. I see a couple mods criticized for mocking people who want to evaluate moves on face value, not based on "the guy making them didn't deserve his job, so they must suck". 

I don't feel like I defend Getz. I root for a team. I really want to see if Fletcher grows into a 4th OF who can hit. Getz was made GM 16 months ago. It's been litigated. 

[WestEddy]

5 minutes ago, Tony said:

For as much as you cry about everyone else here, you continue to engage with those people. So either stop engaging, or quit crying about the same thing you claim everyone else is. 

Yeah, when somebody calls me a dunce and other names for making note that the Sox are being mentioned as a team "in" on Sasaki, it's not "crying" to push back. When somebody regularly mocks a single comment made back in spring training to end every convo, it's not "crying" to find a comment of his and push back with it. If you don't like commenters pushing back on rude behavior, I'm not sure why you're a mod and subject yourself to all this "crying" on a daily basis. 

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't see people being criticized for "being skeptical". I see people criticized for turning every move into multiple "Chris Getz is in over his head, he sucks" posts every day. I see a couple mods criticized for mocking people who want to evaluate moves on face value, not based on "the guy making them didn't deserve his job, so they must suck". 

I don't feel like I defend Getz. I root for a team. I really want to see if Fletcher grows into a 4th OF who can hit. Getz was made GM 16 months ago. It's been litigated. 

We don't need fourth outfielders...that's building in the opposite way of up the middle strength at C SS CF and perhaps even a legit 2B at some point.

Now hopefully they have C and maybe 2B, but two key spots are completely uncertain.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, when somebody calls me a dunce and other names for making note that the Sox are being mentioned as a team "in" on Sasaki, it's not "crying" to push back. When somebody regularly mocks a single comment made back in spring training to end every convo, it's not "crying" to find a comment of his and push back with it. If you don't like commenters pushing back on rude behavior, I'm not sure why you're a mod and subject yourself to all this "crying" on a daily basis. 

Because we have seen this same song and dance with 100+ players previously.

Not converting on Machado Wheeler and Harper was actually so on brand for this team when the opportunity was sitting there basically on a silver platter.

Over two plus decades, Dunn Abreu Robert and Hendriks were the only consequential players they truly "won"...as they overpaid Grandal and Benintendi.

[Dick Allen]

29 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't see people being criticized for "being skeptical". I see people criticized for turning every move into multiple "Chris Getz is in over his head, he sucks" posts every day. I see a couple mods criticized for mocking people who want to evaluate moves on face value, not based on "the guy making them didn't deserve his job, so they must suck". 

I don't feel like I defend Getz. I root for a team. I really want to see if Fletcher grows into a 4th OF who can hit. Getz was made GM 16 months ago. It's been litigated. 

I try not to lie to anyone, especially myself. Sometimes you have to believe what you see. I’m still a White Sox fan.  I’m just sick of the BS. You’re not. That’s fine.

[almagest]

1 hour ago, Quin said:

I love the "why be a fan" schtick cause it's gaslighting people.

People are fans because Chris Getz and Jerry Reinsdorf aren't eternal. The reality is that Reinsdorf is going to sell the team or die in the next decade. Chris Getz's tenure will likely end with him being fired by his successor, even if he has some modicum of success, because he probably  won't turn into a Top 5 GM in the sport.

Bluntly: If you're spouting this nonsense, you should just ignore all negative opinions in all of sports forever, because you're criticizing fans for being skeptical of a historically bad owner (outside of inheriting Michael Jordan) and a GM who has proven absolutely nothing. 

The defense for Getz has always been that he was hamstrung in his old job. Then why did he deserve this one, with no job search? He didn't.

His hires, on paper, look good. The previous rebuild, on paper, looked fucking great until it didn't.

Like Tony stated: I'll eat crow if Getz can actually achieve something. Signing Roki? That would be a massive implication that they're actually selling players on their plan outside of past-their-prime journeymen. Then we're talking. 

But is the inverse true? If Getz marches this team to another 100 losses are we going to hear another round of "he has limitations that no one has ever had to deal with ever before in the sport"?

I’d be really surprised if they win more than 60 in 2025, and I’m one of the more hopeful posters here. This is not something they’ll recover from quickly.

Edited 16 hours ago by almagest

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Because we have seen this same song and dance with 100+ players previously.

Not converting on Machado Wheeler and Harper was actually so on brand for this team when the opportunity was sitting there basically on a silver platter.

Over two plus decades, Dunn Abreu Robert and Hendriks were the only consequential players they truly "won"...as they overpaid Grandal and Benintendi.

Yeah, reminiscent of Brett Hull wanting to come to the Hawks. I guess, like Dick Allen said below, I'm just not sick of it, yet. I used to be a Bears' fan. Watched every game. Listened to sports radio all the time in the car. I just got sick of being angry, and stopped paying attention. Maybe I'll get there with the Sox, at some point. I just don't hang around Bears' boards and jump on the people liking on the team. 

[TaylorStSox]

3 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

You guys do realize that this fanbase is at a generational low, right?  Like their ratings are near zero, their attendance has fallen to levels not seen in this millennium.  There are a ton of Sox fans who have gotten to the point where they aren't bothering at all.  I didn't go to a single game all year.  I watched less baseball than I have watch since the years immediate following the 1994 strike.

I think people are taking the doubt in the sunshine and rainbows of this group and combining with the history of having been this exact same plate of spam many times before, and expressing it when being told this time it is all different. 

Yet, you still found time to post 33 times a day during the year. Your interest couldn't have been that low.

[TaylorStSox]

2 hours ago, Quin said:

I love the "why be a fan" schtick cause it's gaslighting people.

People are fans because Chris Getz and Jerry Reinsdorf aren't eternal. The reality is that Reinsdorf is going to sell the team or die in the next decade. Chris Getz's tenure will likely end with him being fired by his successor, even if he has some modicum of success, because he probably  won't turn into a Top 5 GM in the sport.

Bluntly: If you're spouting this nonsense, you should just ignore all negative opinions in all of sports forever, because you're criticizing fans for being skeptical of a historically bad owner (outside of inheriting Michael Jordan) and a GM who has proven absolutely nothing. 

The defense for Getz has always been that he was hamstrung in his old job. Then why did he deserve this one, with no job search? He didn't.

His hires, on paper, look good. The previous rebuild, on paper, looked fucking great until it didn't.

Like Tony stated: I'll eat crow if Getz can actually achieve something. Signing Roki? That would be a massive implication that they're actually selling players on their plan outside of past-their-prime journeymen. Then we're talking. 

But is the inverse true? If Getz marches this team to another 100 losses are we going to hear another round of "he has limitations that no one has ever had to deal with ever before in the sport"?

That's not what gaslighting means. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

That's not what gaslighting means. 

It is a quality post to tell someone they don't know what gaslighting means.