Jose Abreu back to the MLB soon?

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Andrew Vaughn will also cost $6.4 million this year give or take, based on arbitration estimates. That's 10% of their currently committed salary for a guy who seemingly doesn't have a future with this team and who seemingly won't bring back anything of value in a trade.

Would Abreu REALLY want to come back to Chicago after watching the ongoing disaster of the last two seasons?

Getz and Venable would need to do an incredible sales job, that's for sure.

I mean, why not Tim Anderson at SS, while we're at it?   We actually have a "youngish/in his prime" 1B in Vaughn, but nobody that really stands out at the SS position...Baldwin and Amaya are the two best candidates right now.

Just don't see it happening, realistically.   And is it really going to sell any additional tickets...to watch a clearly washed Abreu?  We already suffered with Konerko nearing the end of his career, wasn't that enough?

 

Not even sure PR Winter Ball is even at a consistent AA pitching level at this point...maybe?

 

[PaleAleSox]

33 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Would Abreu REALLY want to come back to Chicago after watching the ongoing disaster of the last two seasons?

Getz and Venable would need to do an incredible sales job, that's for sure.

I mean, why not Tim Anderson at SS, while we're at it?   We actually have a "youngish/in his prime" 1B in Vaughn, but nobody that really stands out at the SS position...Baldwin and Amaya are the two best candidates right now.

Just don't see it happening, realistically.   And is it really going to sell any additional tickets...to watch a clearly washed Abreu?  We already suffered with Konerko nearing the end of his career, wasn't that enough?

 

Not even sure PR Winter Ball is even at a consistent AA pitching level at this point...maybe?

 

A sales job?! I am losing my mind here. A sales job of what? He was putting up Maldonado numbers before he was cut. 

[Balta1701]

34 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Would Abreu REALLY want to come back to Chicago after watching the ongoing disaster of the last two seasons?

Getz and Venable would need to do an incredible sales job, that's for sure.

I mean, why not Tim Anderson at SS, while we're at it?   We actually have a "youngish/in his prime" 1B in Vaughn, but nobody that really stands out at the SS position...Baldwin and Amaya are the two best candidates right now.

Just don't see it happening, realistically.   And is it really going to sell any additional tickets...to watch a clearly washed Abreu?  We already suffered with Konerko nearing the end of his career, wasn't that enough?

 

Not even sure PR Winter Ball is even at a consistent AA pitching level at this point...maybe?

 

1. If Jose Abreu isn’t retiring, then yes he will go somewhere that he thinks gives him a chance at a comeback. Unless Getz has a personal problem with players like him; the White Sox don’t have a 1b who could block him:

2. No this isn’t to sell tickets. Maybe for Charlotte.

3. Much more important is not spending $6 million on Vaughn. If the payroll is $80 million, that’s an average of $3 million per player. If a guy is getting more than that, I need a clear answer of how He helps build a .500 roster in 2027. Otherwise, money spent now will cause them to cry poor more that year. Vaughn is low on control and a poor trade candidate given his position and defensive limitations to go with that salary. If Abreu gives them an option where they are willing to cut Vaughn loose, that’s is an intelligent exchange.

[caulfield12]

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

1. If Jose Abreu isn’t retiring, then yes he will go somewhere that he thinks gives him a chance at a comeback. Unless Getz has a personal problem with players like him; the White Sox don’t have a 1b who could block him:

2. No this isn’t to sell tickets. Maybe for Charlotte.

3. Much more important is not spending $6 million on Vaughn. If the payroll is $80 million, that’s an average of $3 million per player. If a guy is getting more than that, I need a clear answer of how He helps build a .500 roster in 2027. Otherwise, money spent now will cause them to cry poor more that year. Vaughn is low on control and a poor trade candidate given his position and defensive limitations to go with that salary. If Abreu gives them an option where they are willing to cut Vaughn loose, that’s is an intelligent exchange.

It's not intelligent if it's based on a one or two week hot streak in PR against AA equivalent pitching...

Not to mention relying on the heat to get his bat going...can't imagine his numbers in April and May when he struggled then in the best of times.

[hogan873]

I think one of the "attractive" reasons for signing Abreu is to not pay Vaughn $6 million.  So, if the Sox are not going to spend money, especially at first base, there are probably several options out there:

Carlos Santana
Joey Gallo
Anthony Rizzo
Josh Bell
Rowdy Tellez

Just to name a few.  Most of these guys, including Abreu, would cost less than Vaughn.  Do they provide better options offensively and/or defensively?  Do they provide better peripherals than Vaughn (leadership, clubhouse presence, etc.)?

[Balta1701]

51 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

I think one of the "attractive" reasons for signing Abreu is to not pay Vaughn $6 million.  So, if the Sox are not going to spend money, especially at first base, there are probably several options out there:

Carlos Santana
Joey Gallo
Anthony Rizzo
Josh Bell
Rowdy Tellez

Just to name a few.  Most of these guys, including Abreu, would cost less than Vaughn.  Do they provide better options offensively and/or defensively?  Do they provide better peripherals than Vaughn (leadership, clubhouse presence, etc.)?

Checking a projections site that I can find without a login, Fangraphs has Santana at $7 million, Bell at $8 million, Rizzo at $8 million next year. 

Compared to Vaughn, Santana for example was tradable in 2022 and 2023, and was a 3 WAR player last year. I'm not sure I am excited about spending $8 million on him at age 39, but I think that's better money spent than the $6.4 million projection on Vaughn.

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Checking a projections site that I can find without a login, Fangraphs has Santana at $7 million, Bell at $8 million, Rizzo at $8 million next year. 

Compared to Vaughn, Santana for example was tradable in 2022 and 2023, and was a 3 WAR player last year. I'm not sure I am excited about spending $8 million on him at age 39, but I think that's better money spent than the $6.4 million projection on Vaughn.

Vaughn isn't going to be around for the World Championship parade. The only reason to gamble on him is that he breaks out, and is another lower level piece to trade for an arm July/2026.

[Bob Sacamano]

Best bet is that some team wants him in a platoon at 1B. But then having a 1B only type player limits yours bench (depending on what you're doing with your DH position I guess).

[PaleAleSox]

Why are people believing this report to begin with? Seems very much a "trying to pretend interest is there" report.

[Bob Sacamano]

8 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

Why are people believing this report to begin with? Seems very much a "trying to pretend interest is there" report.

I think its just a hypothetical "would you rather have A or B" discussion.

Would you rather pay Abreu the league minimum or AV almost $6.5M? I don't care about JR saving money but also don't think Vaughn is good so I'd rather go in a different direction that isn't Abreu or AV.

[PaleAleSox]

28 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I think its just a hypothetical "would you rather have A or B" discussion.

Would you rather pay Abreu the league minimum or AV almost $6.5M? I don't care about JR saving money but also don't think Vaughn is good so I'd rather go in a different direction that isn't Abreu or AV.

Yeah, ideally the answer is neither. But if I have to pick one, it's Vaughn. There is at least a slim chance that can turn into a positive situation for the franchise. 

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

Yeah, ideally the answer is neither. But if I have to pick one, it's Vaughn. There is at least a slim chance that can turn into a positive situation for the franchise. 

And I'd go Abreu, as I have zero desire to pay Vaughn $6.5 million and hear in 2 years how we just can't afford a big name player after doing so. 

[WestEddy]

39 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

Why are people believing this report to begin with? Seems very much a "trying to pretend interest is there" report.

If Abreu cleaned up his issues to OPS .650, that throws him into the Rowdy Tellez/Josh Bell pool. That fills a hole for about 5-7 teams.

[PaleAleSox]

7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And I'd go Abreu, as I have zero desire to pay Vaughn $6.5 million and hear in 2 years how we just can't afford a big name player after doing so. 

What does paying him 6.5 million for one year have to do with 2 years from now? 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

What does paying him 6.5 million for one year have to do with 2 years from now? 

$6.5M less he has to spend later.

Edited November 20 by Bob Sacamano

[PaleAleSox]

7 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

$6.5M less he has to spend later.

I didn't realize it was a finite amount of money that drained. I do not want Andrew Vaughn back, but paying him 6.5 million dollars would not be the reason they don't sign a big name FA. It would be because they are the White Sox and just don't do that regardless.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

What does paying him 6.5 million for one year have to do with 2 years from now? 

This is the team that angrily declared they couldn't guarantee Machado's 2027 and 2028 seasons when offering him a contract in 2019 because they needed to make sure they could extend their next core.

[almagest]

There are better ways of spending 6+ million than a 0.2 WAR 99 wRC+ first baseman. Jose Abreu is absolutely not one of those ways. I cannot believe people here are seriously entertaining this.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, almagest said:

There are better ways of spending 6+ million than a 0.2 WAR 99 wRC+ first baseman. Jose Abreu is absolutely not one of those ways. I cannot believe people here are seriously entertaining this.

Who is spending $6 million on Jose Abreu? Jose Abreu, by rule, would be $750k if he makes a big league roster, and most likely he'd be signed on a minor league deal first.

[almagest]

3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Who is spending $6 million on Jose Abreu? Jose Abreu, by rule, would be $750k.

Vaughn is the 0.2 WAR 6 million dollar first baseman. Abreu would probably be $750k, yes, but for that you'd be getting a -1.7 WAR first baseman (which he managed in only 35 games) with an OPS+ of 4 and wRC+ of 0.

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, almagest said:

Vaughn is the 0.2 WAR 6 million dollar first baseman. Abreu would probably be $750k, yes, but for that you'd be getting a -1.7 WAR first baseman (which he managed in only 35 games) with an OPS+ of 4 and wRC+ of 0.

Oh no that performance will totally sabotage the White Sox's playoff chances next year. Whatever will we do.

Anyway, the hope would be that you can get better out of him than that, for whatever reason. If you can't...hey look, you put him on a minor league deal, you don't have to call him up, you can look for an alternate option later in the year because you're not committed to Vaughn.

[almagest]

46 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Oh no that performance will totally sabotage the White Sox's playoff chances next year. Whatever will we do.

Anyway, the hope would be that you can get better out of him than that, for whatever reason. If you can't...hey look, you put him on a minor league deal, you don't have to call him up, you can look for an alternate option later in the year because you're not committed to Vaughn.

Didn't you and others spend most of the season complaining about how the Sox wouldn't have lost so many games if they didn't make these exact kinds of moves, for players with extreme negative value? But now you're ok with losing that many because the Sox can save 5.25 million by signing an ancient Jose Abreu, who might rebound from a stretch where he was the least valuable player in baseball, solely because he's hitting a couple dingers against low level competition in PR?

I don't really care if Vaughn stays or goes, but if there's a binary option only I'm taking Vaughn over Abreu 100% of the time. If we're being realistic, then I'd just give Elko a shot for league minimum, because while he might be awful, the FA options in the Sox range are also all awful and he's likely still gonna be better than Abreu.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, almagest said:

Didn't you and others spend most of the season complaining about how the Sox wouldn't have lost so many games if they didn't make these exact kinds of moves, for players with extreme negative value? But now you're ok with losing that many because the Sox can save 5.25 million by signing an ancient Jose Abreu, who might rebound from a stretch where he was the least valuable player in baseball, solely because he's hitting a couple dingers against low level competition in PR?

I don't really care if Vaughn stays or goes, but if there's a binary option only I'm taking Vaughn over Abreu 100% of the time. If we're being realistic, then I'd just give Elko a shot for league minimum, because while he might be awful, the FA options in the Sox range are also all awful and he's likely still gonna be better than Abreu.

No, I complain about moves like Vaughn, Lopez, and Maldonado, where they spend $4.5 million or $6.5 million on negative value guys, because they always come back a few years later and cry poor. 

If you're going to lose 120, then don't spend $4 million here, $4.5 million here, $6.5 million here on your precious veterans. Spend $1 million on them, or $750k. 

If you're spending $3 million on someone, on a team that may have an $80 million payroll, tell me how that player helps us in 2027. Does the player have multiple years of control?  Is the player likely to be tradable? For a reliever, sure if they're cheap enough. For a 1b? Eh, maybe depends on the player.

[almagest]

35 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, I complain about moves like Vaughn, Lopez, and Maldonado, where they spend $4.5 million or $6.5 million on negative value guys, because they always come back a few years later and cry poor. 

If you're going to lose 120, then don't spend $4 million here, $4.5 million here, $6.5 million here on your precious veterans. Spend $1 million on them, or $750k. 

If you're spending $3 million on someone, on a team that may have an $80 million payroll, tell me how that player helps us in 2027. Does the player have multiple years of control?  Is the player likely to be tradable? For a reliever, sure if they're cheap enough. For a 1b? Eh, maybe depends on the player.

The argument for Vaughn is his pedigree, complete mishandling by Hahn and to see if their new hitting director can help him unlock more power and patience. The ship has probably already sailed for him, but that is why you'd take a chance on him for 1 year/$6 mil.

Like I said, if you're really worried about payroll then you just give Elko a shot, or maybe see what's available after the 40 man roster crunch settles. Bring Abreu in on a 1 day contract to retire as a White Sox player, or add him to the coaching staff or as a special assistant. His playing days are over.

[champagne030]

51 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, I complain about moves like Vaughn, Lopez, and Maldonado, where they spend $4.5 million or $6.5 million on negative value guys, because they always come back a few years later and cry poor. 

If you're going to lose 120, then don't spend $4 million here, $4.5 million here, $6.5 million here on your precious veterans. Spend $1 million on them, or $750k. 

If you're spending $3 million on someone, on a team that may have an $80 million payroll, tell me how that player helps us in 2027. Does the player have multiple years of control?  Is the player likely to be tradable? For a reliever, sure if they're cheap enough. For a 1b? Eh, maybe depends on the player.

Jerry will come back and cry poor no matter what.  I don't want Vaughn or Jose, but it's not like that's going into a "piggy bank" to use down the road.  Any and all savings, on a yearly basis, are going into JR's pocket.  Yes, I would want to sign as many former/younger/failed "prospects" as possible and hope to hit lighting in a bottle and then trade them for a Lotto ticket.  Getz sucks at trades so does it really matter?  I guess the best hope is Getz becomes better at trades or I'd just rather JR eat the loss.

And by "loss", I mean less of a profit.

 

Edited November 20 by champagne030