Montgomery story...

[southsider2k5]

Two articles, and still no one asked about his injuries and hitting a fastball.

[Balta1701]

49 minutes ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

I mean, of course he would say that he wants to be the starting ss for the mlb team. He should say that. Doesn't mean he should get it though. I know spring numbers don't mean much but if he has a great spring I wouldn't mind him breaking with the team. Idk that I would dub him the regular starter though. I'd rather they sign an experienced veteran that he can split time with and learn from throughout the season. 

I get that athletes are typically arrogant, but I definitely prefer honesty when I get it from management and I think I'd prefer it here too.

"I know what I can do and I showed it off in the AFL. I understand my performance this year wasn't where I wanted it to be, so it's my job starting in March to come in ready and show the team the kind of player I can be. They'll make decisions like that, about when I come up and stuff like that, but I'm going to come in ready to dominate next year."

[steveno89]

16 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Says he wants to be the Sox opening day shortstop in 2025:

https://chicago.suntimes.com/white-sox/2024/11/20/white-sox-colson-montgomery-will-venables-arizona-fall-league-mlb-chicago

I mean what is he suppossed to say? 

Sox absolutely should have him start the season in AAA and prove he deserves to be called up to the majors. Zero reason to rush him.

[vilehoopster]

I think his being the starting SS is all but a done deal. And I have to say that I agree with that call. 

Unless he comes in to Spring Ball and is terrible, I really expect to see him at shortstop. 

With there being no other reasonable option, I really think it's a stretch to say calling him up is rushing him. Yes, he struggled, for a while, in AAA; but he had a .815 OPS in September and has had two really good AFL seasons. 

Again, I see him at SS and Sosa (after his September) at 2nd as a done deal, and I'm looking forward to watching them there. 

[Bob Sacamano]

14 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

I think his being the starting SS is all but a done deal. And I have to say that I agree with that call. 

Unless he comes in to Spring Ball and is terrible, I really expect to see him at shortstop. 

With there being no other reasonable option, I really think it's a stretch to say calling him up is rushing him. Yes, he struggled, for a while, in AAA; but he had a .815 OPS in September and has had two really good AFL seasons. 

Again, I see him at SS and Sosa (after his September) at 2nd as a done deal, and I'm looking forward to watching them there. 

I'm good with Baldwin holding down the fort for a few weeks at SS to get that extra year of control personally.

[southsider2k5]

If he wasn't good enough to get a September call up with literally the worst team in MLB history, he'd better hit like .500 in spring if he is going to be the opening day SS.

[vilehoopster]

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I'm good with Baldwin holding down the fort for a few weeks at SS to get that extra year of control personally.

Excellent point. This didn't occur to me. 

[nrockway]

17 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Calling guys up based on artificial timetables and not because they earned it was a defining move of Rick Hahn’s GM career. 

It's fairly arbitrary but there was also a league-mandated deadline to add him to the roster. I don't think it's about 'earning' it so much as he has run out of time to be babied and he should prove that he's an MLB player. I don't think you can say a guy is being rushed if he makes it to rule 5 eligibility. Especially someone with his supposed credentials and in an environment where guys are making the majors earlier than ever before. He's been in MILB forever, it's time to show something. At this point, it's on the player, and I suspect Colson thinks so too. I just think every party involved, Colson, the team, the fans wants to see him make the opening day roster and I don't see a good argument why he shouldn't make it. Or why the entire roster shouldn't be 25 or younger.

If he really sucks, fine, option him, but nobody rushed him to the majors. There's a contradiction between two common fan perspectives: "why are these old bums playing over the kids?" and "why are these kids being rushed when old bums could be playing?". Two reasonable, context-specific questions, but what is gained by signing Jose Iglesias? so Colson can 'earn' it? Strikes me as poor management, a good way to piss off a player the organization holds in high esteem. That almost certainly affects job performance. What happens to Colson if he makes the opening day roster and blows it? His back is going to explode and he'll fall into a deep, Steve Blass-esque depression? Is everybody already writing off Jackson Holliday and his sub.600 OPS? 

[Balta1701]

43 minutes ago, nrockway said:

It's fairly arbitrary but there was also a league-mandated deadline to add him to the roster. I don't think it's about 'earning' it so much as he has run out of time to be babied and he should prove that he's an MLB player. I don't think you can say a guy is being rushed if he makes it to rule 5 eligibility. Especially someone with his supposed credentials and in an environment where guys are making the majors earlier than ever before. He's been in MILB forever, it's time to show something. At this point, it's on the player, and I suspect Colson thinks so too. I just think every party involved, Colson, the team, the fans wants to see him make the opening day roster and I don't see a good argument why he shouldn't make it. Or why the entire roster shouldn't be 25 or younger.

If he really sucks, fine, option him, but nobody rushed him to the majors. There's a contradiction between two common fan perspectives: "why are these old bums playing over the kids?" and "why are these kids being rushed when old bums could be playing?". Two reasonable, context-specific questions, but what is gained by signing Jose Iglesias? so Colson can 'earn' it? Strikes me as poor management, a good way to piss off a player the organization holds in high esteem. That almost certainly affects job performance. What happens to Colson if he makes the opening day roster and blows it? His back is going to explode and he'll fall into a deep, Steve Blass-esque depression? Is everybody already writing off Jackson Holliday and his sub.600 OPS? 

No, people aren't writing off Jackson Holliday, but there is legitimate concern over why he struggled so much in the big leagues.

His 2024 performance was absolutely a reason to use one of his 3 option years in 2025. If he is actually good enough to earn a call-up in 2025 and sticks as a big league starter, then it shouldn't matter that you've burned an option because he will never go back down. If he comes up and stinks, by the time he's out of options at the end of 2027, you won't be crazy about giving him another shot anyway.

Calling a guy up who isn’t succeeding at Charlotte or BHam because having to fix something or make a decision about the big league roster is tough and no one wants to do things that are challenging - welcome to Rick Hahn s%*#.

[nrockway]

25 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, people aren't writing off Jackson Holliday, but there is legitimate concern over why he struggled so much in the big leagues.

His 2024 performance was absolutely a reason to use one of his 3 option years in 2025. If he is actually good enough to earn a call-up in 2025 and sticks as a big league starter, then it shouldn't matter that you've burned an option because he will never go back down. If he comes up and stinks, by the time he's out of options at the end of 2027, you won't be crazy about giving him another shot anyway.

Well right, it sounds like we agree. If all of Colson's options are used, he probably just sucks at baseball. What's the point in waiting until a mid-season call up to find out? To win a couple extra games with a 30something SS with no trade value? Seems like you're actually hampering the player's development by starting him off with a staff he definitely won't finish the season with; plus it's just offensive. I'd take it personally. Get him around the major league team ASAP and the new coaching staff. I'm genuinely surprised that people think he is being rushed, he's practically graying. 

By the way, Jackson Merrill OPS'd considerably lower than Colson in AA in 2023 and was rewarded with a major league call-up. How'd that work out for the Padres. I think they're comparable players. Same draft class, both high schoolers, both play 'defense-first' positions and had similar prospect rankings. Not a 1:1 comparison, but he had a mediocre AA season then immediately had an excellent MLB season.

Edited Thursday at 10:02 PM by nrockway

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Well right, it sounds like we agree. If all of Colson's options are used, he probably just sucks at baseball. What's the point in waiting until a mid-season call up to find out? To win a couple extra games with a 30something SS with no trade value? Seems like you're actually hampering the player's development by starting him off with a staff he definitely won't finish the season with; plus it's just offensive. I'd take it personally. Get him around the major league team ASAP and the new coaching staff. I'm genuinely surprised that people think he is being rushed, he's practically graying. 

By the way, Jackson Merrill OPS'd considerably lower than Colson in AA in 2023 and was rewarded with a major league call-up. How'd that work out for the Padres

Jackson Merrill's .782 OPS was lower than Colson Montgomery's .710 OPS? 

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Well right, it sounds like we agree. If all of Colson's options are used, he probably just sucks at baseball. What's the point in waiting until a mid-season call up to find out? To win a couple extra games with a 30something SS with no trade value? Seems like you're actually hampering the player's development by starting him off with a staff he definitely won't finish the season with; plus it's just offensive. I'd take it personally. Get him around the major league team ASAP and the new coaching staff. I'm genuinely surprised that people think he is being rushed, he's practically graying. 

By the way, Jackson Merrill OPS'd considerably lower than Colson in AA in 2023 and was rewarded with a major league call-up. How'd that work out for the Padres

.926 OPS in Spring Training is why he made it.

[Bob Sacamano]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Jackson Merrill's .782 OPS was lower than Colson Montgomery's .710 OPS? 

That math ain't mathing.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

I'm good with Baldwin holding down the fort for a few weeks at SS to get that extra year of control personally.

Pittsburgh did't get a draft pick for Paul Skenes winning ROY because they held him down playing the control game. On top of that he ended up earning that year of service time  from winning the award.  They fucked it up twice.  

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

Pittsburgh did't get a draft pick for Paul Skenes winning ROY because they held him down playing the control game. On top of that he ended up earning that year of service time  from winning the award.  They fucked it up twice.  

They were 100% clear that they held him down to limit his innings. They even got him on board with this right at the start of his career. Note the contrast between "open communication with your player about your plans for them" and "what do you mean the player says he doesn't want to pitch in the postseason I thought we had a good working relationship?". 

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/41443457/paul-skenes-says-pirates-made-right-call-bringing-slowly

 

[Chicago White Sox]

Colson Montgomery put up an 88 wRC+ in AAA while playing half his games in an absolute bandbox.  To think he’s ready for the majors is wild to me and to think he’d have any chance of winning ROY next year is even crazier.  I’m glad he had a nice AFL stint but it was 42 plate appearances.  He needs to have an extended stretch of success in AAA before we consider calling him up.  There is zero benefit of burning a year of service while he hoping he’ll complete critical development in the majors.  Baldwin can and should start for a month or two or however long it takes for Colson to legit be ready for a shot.

[caulfield12]

44 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Well right, it sounds like we agree. If all of Colson's options are used, he probably just sucks at baseball. What's the point in waiting until a mid-season call up to find out? To win a couple extra games with a 30something SS with no trade value? Seems like you're actually hampering the player's development by starting him off with a staff he definitely won't finish the season with; plus it's just offensive. I'd take it personally. Get him around the major league team ASAP and the new coaching staff. I'm genuinely surprised that people think he is being rushed, he's practically graying. 

By the way, Jackson Merrill OPS'd considerably lower than Colson in AA in 2023 and was rewarded with a major league call-up. How'd that work out for the Padres. I think they're comparable players. Same draft class, both high schoolers, both play 'defense-first' positions and had similar prospect rankings. Not a 1:1 comparison, but he had a mediocre AA season then immediately had an excellent MLB season.

Merrill is a much more dynamic fast-twitchy athlete than the Montgomery at Charlotte in 2024...the suggestion that Colson would play nearly GG level defensively in CF in Chicago replacing Robert would be met by more shaking heads of Sox fans who have nearly seen it all.

[Bob Sacamano]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Colson Montgomery put up an 88 wRC+ in AAA while playing half his games in an absolute bandbox.  To think he’s ready for the majors is wild to me and to think he’d have any chance of winning ROY next year is even crazier.  I’m glad he had a nice AFL stint but it was 42 plate appearances.  He needs to have an extended stretch of success in AAA before we consider calling him up.  There is zero benefit of burning a year of service while he hoping he’ll complete critical development in the majors.  Baldwin can and should start for a month or two or however long it takes for Colson to legit be ready for a shot.

This. And if you’re afraid of him winning the award just call him up in like June or July.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

This. And if you’re afraid of him winning the award just call him up in like June or July.

If Colson Montgomery gets off to an incredible April, comes up mid-May, and wins Rookie of the Year, I promise to not be mad about his excellent performance.

All that will mean is...if they want to keep him around for his career, Jerry Reinsdorf would have to pay a fair price for a guy his organization had developed in a few years. I will have zero sympathy for Reinsdorf crying that he's unable to pay a guy who has apparently come up and started winning awards contributing to his roster, in this setup where everything works that well.

[Bruce_Blixton]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Jackson Merrill's .782 OPS was lower than Colson Montgomery's .710 OPS? 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=montgo001col

Looks like Montgomery put up an .828 OPS in AA in 2023, which I believe is higher than .782.

Edited Friday at 01:34 AM by Bruce_Blixton
Formatting

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Bruce_Blixton said:

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=montgo001col

Looks like Montgomery put up an .828 OPS in AA in 2023, which I believe is higher than .782.

And by this logic his .710 OPS in 2024 at AAA says he should have been in MLB last year? 

I wonder how people would be talking about him if he played 400 PAs and put up like a sub .600 OPS and burned a year of control already.

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And by this logic his .710 OPS in 2024 at AAA says he should have been in MLB last year? 

I wonder how people would be talking about him if he played 400 PAs and put up like a sub .600 OPS and burned a year of control already.

There wouldn't be many shocked or surprised posters, that's fore sure...

[Bruce_Blixton]

14 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

And by this logic his .710 OPS in 2024 at AAA says he should have been in MLB last year? 

I wonder how people would be talking about him if he played 400 PAs and put up like a sub .600 OPS and burned a year of control already.

My interpretation of that post is that Montgomery had a similar profile to Merrill through 2023 and Merrill managed to get to the majors the next year so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that Montgomery could grab the starting SS next year, especially with a potentially more competent MLB coaching staff next year. It's very unlikely but not completely impossible.

Also, I don't really understand all the pessimism surrounding Montgomery, we all knew that he was going to be a raw project with tantalizing physical tools and up until last season he's exceeded all expectations. Even last season he struggled at AAA as 22 year-old still learning the game, but reading the sentiment about him on here and you'd think he was a 28 year-old journeyman.

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Bruce_Blixton said:

My interpretation of that post is that Montgomery had a similar profile to Merrill through 2023 and Merrill managed to get to the majors the next year so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that Montgomery could grab the starting SS next year, especially with a potentially more competent MLB coaching staff next year. It's very unlikely but not completely impossible.

Also, I don't really understand all the pessimism surrounding Montgomery, we all knew that he was going to be a raw project with tantalizing physical tools and up until last season he's exceeded all expectations. Even last season he struggled at AAA as 22 year-old still learning the game, but reading the sentiment about him on here and you'd think he was a 28 year-old journeyman.

If you can’t understand at least some disappointment in Montgomery after the season he just had, you’re being deliberately naive. 

He may well grab the starting SS spot next year, but we should not Rick Hahn this position and hand it to him until he proves he’s ready for it.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, Bruce_Blixton said:

My interpretation of that post is that Montgomery had a similar profile to Merrill through 2023 and Merrill managed to get to the majors the next year so it isn't out of the realm of possibilities that Montgomery could grab the starting SS next year, especially with a potentially more competent MLB coaching staff next year. It's very unlikely but not completely impossible.

Also, I don't really understand all the pessimism surrounding Montgomery, we all knew that he was going to be a raw project with tantalizing physical tools and up until last season he's exceeded all expectations. Even last season he struggled at AAA as 22 year-old still learning the game, but reading the sentiment about him on here and you'd think he was a 28 year-old journeyman.

The pessimism around Montgomery is primarily related to his struggles with velocity.  And candidly speaking, those concerns are warranted until he proves otherwise.  I’m optimistic he can adjust and become a very productive major leaguer, but he certainly has lost some of his prospect shine and no longer looks like a potential superstar IMO.  Hopefully he proves me wrong though.