Non-Tender Day

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Depends. What is the $ value of not being completely unwatchable for 2 years? It's not like they're going to use the money on something else. If a 2 WAR 1b helps you stay close to .500 a little longer into the season, maybe that $15 mil pays for itself while you develop other players? I'm pretty sure losing 120 games every year would not be good for the club's long-term financial health.

This is happening no matter what the status of Andrew Vaughn is.  In fact he, himself, has been pretty unwatchable since his call up.  And if it is only 2 years we are unwatchable, it will be a minor miracle.  This franchise has 40 games to make up just to get to mediocre. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Snopek said:

I’m not sure if this says more about Vaughn or the state of the roster, but either way I’m lol’ing that Vaughn has a legitimate shot at either:

1. Being non-tendered by the worst team of all time

2. Being the Sox most productive hitter in 2025

It's both.

[southsider2k5]

11 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

That's why I want to either just get Vargas his at bats there (leave Ramos at 3B and play the mid/upper-20s year old OFs in the OF) or play Colas at 1B (he seems to be closer to a DFA candidate than MLB candidate at this point though).

I mean at the end of the day, just move Vargas to 1B and be done with pretending he isn't a terrible 3B.

[Bob Sacamano]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean at the end of the day, just move Vargas to 1B and be done with pretending he isn't a terrible 3B.

Agreed.

C) Lee (at least to open the year)

1B) Vargas

2B) Sosa

3B) Ramos

SS) Baldwin (at least to open the year)

LF) DeLoach

CF) Robert

RF) Fletcher

DH) Benintendi

We can "Hey, the Kids Can Play" our way into the #1 pick in 2026!

Edited Friday at 06:29 PM by Bob Sacamano

[Balta1701]

19 minutes ago, almagest said:

If we can't afford $6 million there are exactly zero 1B free agents worth signing over Vaughn out there. At best, you'll save a little money signing an older, declining, left-handed Vaughn-like guy with zero potential upside.

Trading a premium asset like Crochet for a 1B would be malpractice, so you're left with a smaller trade for a blocked 1B in another org (if one even exists), bringing Elko up, or retaining Vaughn.

If we are spending $6 million, the free agent options look better than Vaughn. Justin Turner, Mark Canha, Josh Bell, Anthony Rizzo, and Carlos Santana are all projected from $7-$8 million on 1 year deals from Fangraphs here. Turner and Canha were 1 WAR players last year, Santana was a 3 WAR player. Turner was tradable last year, Canha was tradable last year, Santana was good enough last year the Twins didn't want to trade him but he was tradable in 2022 and 2023. 

There are other options who are probably cheaper than this. Donovan Solano is regularly a 1 WAR 1b, he made $2 million with the Twins in 2023 and $700k with the Padres in 2024. Abraham Toro has been basically a 0-0.5 fWAR 1b in his career, he made $1.275 million last year. 

If we need to be cheap, sign someone like Solano or Toro. If we are looking to spend $6 million and be a little better, sign one of the guys who has a history of being a 1-3 WAR 1b and a good shot at being tradable mid-season.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, bmags said:

bleh I hate blaming that. This was a body type that had no room to physically improve. His approach that was vaunted at Cal is probably a lot easier to exploit when pitchers can make you more uncomfortable in the strike zone, esp when he doesn't punish anything enough to be scared. There was probably a 99th percentile version of Vaughn that works out and would have been better prepped in another org. But for as highly ranked as he was, this feels like a player who was destined to end up on the white sox or rockies.

Vaughn had a 20% BB rate in his Junior year at Cal vs. the 6% rate he’s been sporting the last three years with the Sox.  His BB to K ratio was nearly 2 to 1.  He was an incredibly disciplined hitter and that has not translated at all to the majors.  And I disagree somewhat on the ability to punish the ball.  His exit velocities (especially his max ones) are mostly fine.  The problem is he’s no longer making good swing decisions and is chasing like crazy (bottom 21st percentile).  I 100% believe having more than 135 plate appearances above Low A ball would have made some difference in that area.  Doesn’t mean he would have turned to out to be a good pick or even a semblance of the guy he was at Cal, but you can pretend that essentially no time in AA & AAA didn’t have some effect on his long term development.

[wegner]

22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I mean at the end of the day, just move Vargas to 1B and be done with pretending he isn't a terrible 3B.

Can I keep pretending he isn't a terrible offensive player though??

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 hours ago, fathom said:

The two things that always caused me doubt about him was how a lot of his homers in college barely cleared the RF fence, as well as hearing on a podcast before the draft that he always seemed to struggle against Friday night pitching.

THE GREATEST COLLEGE HITTER EVER!!!!!   LOL

[almagest]

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

If we are spending $6 million, the free agent options look better than Vaughn. Justin Turner, Mark Canha, Josh Bell, Anthony Rizzo, and Carlos Santana are all projected from $7-$8 million on 1 year deals from Fangraphs here. Turner and Canha were 1 WAR players last year, Santana was a 3 WAR player. Turner was tradable last year, Canha was tradable last year, Santana was good enough last year the Twins didn't want to trade him but he was tradable in 2022 and 2023. 

There are other options who are probably cheaper than this. Donovan Solano is regularly a 1 WAR 1b, he made $2 million with the Twins in 2023 and $700k with the Padres in 2024. Abraham Toro has been basically a 0-0.5 fWAR 1b in his career, he made $1.275 million last year. 

If we need to be cheap, sign someone like Solano or Toro. If we are looking to spend $6 million and be a little better, sign one of the guys who has a history of being a 1-3 WAR 1b and a good shot at being tradable mid-season.

Josh Bell was as bad as, if not worse than Vaughn last year. He's 32 and hasn't been good since 2022. There's no upside here.

Justin Turner is 40 and only played first base regularly after he was traded to Boston. I'm not counting on a 40 year old to not fall off a cliff, especially on this team, and double especially when the "upside" is 1.5 bWAR.

Mark Canha is 36 and was basically the same offensively as Vaughn. He is not an upgrade, especially at his age.

Rizzo is 35, was worse than Vaughn, and couldn't stay on the field for the last 2 years. He's not an upgrade on anyone at this point in his career.

Solano is 37 and only played in 96 games last year. He's probably not a full time player anymore, and he's never been a full time first baseman. At best, you'd still need someone else there for more than half the time, and at worst he falls off a cliff due to his age.

Abraham Toro has only played at first in 15 of his 311 career games, and he was a worse hitter than Vaughn last year. I don't care how much cheaper he might be, he'd absolutely be a downgrade especially at a position he barely plays. He's probably the worst option in a field of bad options.

Carlos Santana is the only one with solid production, but he's also going to be 39 years old when the season starts. It's likely he falls off a cliff, and then you're paying a guy who hits like Vaughn or worse as much as or more than you'd pay Vaughn. No thanks.

Yeah, I'll stand by what I said.

[Timmy U]

50 minutes ago, wegner said:

Can I keep pretending he isn't a terrible offensive player though??

Vargas’ best defensive position is DH. But it is hard to count on a guy who hit .105 in a decent sample size with metrics that are as bad as you think. They gotta give him half a season, but as he is without options, he is a slow boat headed to DFA.

[ChiSox59]

I think Sox keep AV, but I'd certainly be trying to get a deal closer to $4.5-$5M done. Lose some leverage there after today.  

I think Sox tender all except Gavin, thought wouldn't be surprised to see everyone back. De Los Santos also a coin flip. 

[Timmy U]

Austin Hays is a non-tender. Might be a good target.

[wegner]

19 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Vargas’ best defensive position is DH. But it is hard to count on a guy who hit .105 in a decent sample size with metrics that are as bad as you think. They gotta give him half a season, but as he is without options, he is a slow boat headed to DFA.

 

[Y2Jimmy0]

I would take Bob Seymour in the Rule 5 Draft and non-tender Sheets. 

[2Deep]

17 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Austin Hays is a non-tender. Might be a good target.

We already landed our top target for the off season

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Austin Hays is a non-tender. Might be a good target.

Would’ve been good had Getz not already pounced on his #1 target.  He’ll pass cuz he already has his savior Austin “The Slayer” Slater.

 

Edited Friday at 08:09 PM by WhiteSox2023

[Harold's Leg Lift]

13 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I would take Bob Seymour in the Rule 5 Draft and non-tender Sheets. 

[Timmy U]

4 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Would’ve been good had Getz not already pounced on his #1 target.  He’ll pass cuz he already has his savior Austin “The Slayer” Slater.

 

A five man platoon of LF Benintendi/Slater CF Robert RF Hays with Fletcher 5th OF occasional starts for Hays against tough righthanders would be pretty good. Let’s not pretend either Fletcher or DeLoach has earned a starting job in mlb.

[Timmy U]

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

One of those Spidermen is gonna get $2 mil in arbitration, though.

[almagest]

"Severe kidney infection"? Yeesh. No thanks. Kidney issues are very serious and could have a big effect on quality of life going forward, and Philly must be concerned about that if they'd DFA him with arb years left after trading for him.

Edited Friday at 08:18 PM by almagest

[nrockway]

3 hours ago, fathom said:

The two things that always caused me doubt about him was how a lot of his homers in college barely cleared the RF fence, as well as hearing on a podcast before the draft that he always seemed to struggle against Friday night pitching.

thirsty thursday is alive and well in berkeley 

[WhiteSox2023]

29 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

A five man platoon of LF Benintendi/Slater CF Robert RF Hays with Fletcher 5th OF occasional starts for Hays against tough righthanders would be pretty good. Let’s not pretend either Fletcher or DeLoach has earned a starting job in mlb.

Maybe not in our eyes, but I think Getz will want to try to show everyone why he acquired them.

Edited Friday at 08:40 PM by WhiteSox2023

[Nokona]

Hays is what Benitendi is meant to be

[WhiteSox2023]

21 minutes ago, almagest said:

"Severe kidney infection"? Yeesh. No thanks. Kidney issues are very serious and could have a big effect on quality of life going forward, and Philly must be concerned about that if they'd DFA him with arb years left after trading for him.

Sounds like he’s back to normal now.  He thinks it came from something he ate.  I can understand the Phillies not wanting to pay him ~$6.5 million via arbitration though.

https://www.nbcsportsphiladelphia.com/mlb/philadelphia-phillies/phillies-news/austin-hays-kidney-infection-phillies-playoff-roster/616260/?amp=1

[WhiteSox2023]

46 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I would take Bob Seymour in the Rule 5 Draft and non-tender Sheets. 

Just looked him up.  Looks like a good move on paper.  A younger lefty power bat 1B…

Maybe he can be everything Sheets failed to be!

But he did go to Mount Carmel…  👎🏻🤣

Edited Friday at 08:45 PM by WhiteSox2023