White Sox asking for "top prospects" for Robert

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

How many times in the last 10 years have we heard “maybe a new hitting/pitching coach will fix player X” and how often has it actually happened?

The difference is that Robert has historically been a good player.  He doesn’t need reinvention, but rather just adjustments.  I do think new voices will help, especially if paired with real analytics and better pro scouting.  I can’t stress enough the amount of low hanging fruit that can be quickly fixed by bringing in outside people and ideas.  I’m not a Getz fan by any stretch, but I think he is making real structural changes that will bare immediate fruit.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Outside of generational talents like Juan Soto, when’s the last time a position player cashed in substantially at the trade deadline?

In a deadline deal you’re asking?

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The difference is that Robert has historically been a good player.  He doesn’t need reinvention, but rather just adjustments.  I do think new voices will help, especially if paired with real analytics and better pro scouting.  I can’t stress enough the amount of low hanging fruit that can be quickly fixed by bringing in outside people and ideas.  I’m not a Getz fan by any stretch, but I think he is making real structural changes that will bare immediate fruit.

I believe I've heard this exact same statement each of the last 2 offseasons about various people, if not more. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Why? The Sox lineup is horrible so he has no protection. He’s chasing pitches and his strikeout rate is trending up. His defense appears to be trending down. He’s not going to get any faster as he ages combined with the injuries he’s experienced. He looked completely disinterested at times last year playing for the worst team in mlb, I doubt this changes. Just to name a few.

The lack of protection is a concern, but mostly because he wasn’t being pitched to and he was too aggressive.  That is a correctable with the right coaching.

I’m not really worried about his defense as the speed is still there.  And yes, he looked disinterested at times (he wasn’t the only one).  These guys aren’t robots and playing for a historically bad team will wear you down.  And if you have a weak manager, then it’s much easier for that to happen.  I also think he wasn’t fully healthy even when playing.

I really think you are taking one bad year and trying to make a trend out of it because a bias you have against the player.

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The lack of protection is a concern, but mostly because he wasn’t being pitched to and he was too aggressive.  That is a correctable with the right coaching.

I’m not really worried about his defense as the speed is still there.  And yes, he looked disinterested at times (he wasn’t the only one).  These guys aren’t robots and playing for a historically bad team will wear you down.  And if you have a weak manager, then it’s much easier for that to happen.  I also think he wasn’t fully healthy even when playing.

I really think you are taking one bad year and trying to make a trend out of it because a bias you have against the player.

What is a new hitting coach going to say that an old one didn't say about this exact situation other than "layoff the garbage."

[JoeC]

6 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

What is a new hitting coach going to say that an old one didn't say about this exact situation other than "layoff the garbage."

I think it's more of a matter of actually getting coaching on what to anticipate in various situations against certain pitchers.

From the articles that have come out, it seems like they've basically just told guys "swing at strikes and don't swing at not-strikes." There was limited emphasis on applying analytics and coming up with cohesive strategies for specific pitchers in specific scenarios / situations.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

In a deadline deal you’re asking?

Yes

[Harold's Leg Lift]

When he plays I expect Robert to play well next year because he'll actually be motivated by something. Money. He has a $20M payday waiting for him.  That said I still think the risk of injury is too great (just like it was for Moncada) and they should move on from him now.  Don't make the same mistake twice.

[Dick Allen]

Chris Getz sucks, but if I was him, I'm asking for the moon for Robert too. What is he supposed to do, ask for garbage? And if he can't trade him, and Robert gets hurt, so what, the team missed out on garbage. Either they get something good, or he plays and hopefully plays really well so someone will give up something for him. if not, let him go after next season.

[steveno89]

4 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

When he plays I expect Robert to play well next year because he'll actually be motivated by something. Money. He has a $20M payday waiting for him.  That said I still think the risk of injury is too great (just like it was for Moncada) and they should move on from him now.  Don't make the same mistake twice.

Sox best bet would be to keep Robert and hope he stays healthy and is productive in the first half

He could be a strong trade chip at the deadline for a contender in that case

Right now I just do not think the returns would be enough to justify trading him 

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Chris Getz sucks, but if I was him, I'm asking for the moon for Robert too. What is he supposed to do, ask for garbage? And if he can't trade him, and Robert gets hurt, so what, the team missed out on garbage. Either they get something good, or he plays and hopefully plays really well so someone will give up something for him. if not, let him go after next season.

Well there's your problem. 

If you could get a weak return deal, like the one the White Sox got for Cease, that's better than winding up with nothing for him. 

[JoeC]

3 minutes ago, steveno89 said:

Sox best bet would be to keep Robert and hope he stays healthy and is productive in the first half

He could be a strong trade chip at the deadline for a contender in that case

Right now I just do not think the returns would be enough to justify trading him 

To this point, what Getz is doing (asking for the moon as a return) I would think makes sense. Hold onto him if you can't get the return you think you can get at the deadline, but if someone's willing to meet the price now, go for it.

[GREEDY]

3 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

What is a new hitting coach going to say that an old one didn't say about this exact situation other than "layoff the garbage."

Robert needs to be a guess hitter... specifically where he isn't the guesser.

To my eye it feels like he is just so stubborn about not missing a fastball opportunity that he consistently ruins at-bats.  Let them get him out with fastball once in a damn while, it won't kill him.  Put some tape out there calmly taking sliders away and that will change everything. 

The bench needs to give him a Yes or a No pre-pitch in most situations.  I'm guessing Thames ain't the guy for the job.   

Then maybe down the road once he reestablishes himself, (and possibly learns to think along with the dugout & the pitcher) that then he can try and go back to a more traditional approach.  

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well there's your problem. 

If you could get a weak return deal, like the one the White Sox got for Cease, that's better than winding up with nothing for him. 

Weak returns don't help you win. They have to hold out and hope he plays better.The only one getting burned is JR because he has to pay him. So I don't care.

Edited 2 hours ago by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Weak returns don't help you win. They have to hold out and hope he plays better.

They help you more than holding onto the guy, spending $15 million on him, getting a bad performance from him, then releasing him at the end of the season. We've done that several times recently. It's how we built the sterling roster we have today.

[nitetrain8601]

3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It’s just Russian roulette hanging on to him though, if he gets injured yet again in the early season and misses a large chunk of the season yet again, the return for him will be next to nothing.

Which it is now anyway. I rather sit on the known asset then just trade him just to trade him (since his value is at an all time low) and end up with a "prospect" worse than Vargas who I could've told you was not a legit prospect. His advanced numbers showed he was not the hitter his numbers showed in the minors. 

Could I be convinced to deal him this year? Of course, but I rather sit on the 15 million player at a 2 WAR because the basement can get a lot lower. 

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I do wonder if a bigger reason they could be slashing revenue next year beyond the “Jerry is preparing to sell the team” theory is the fact that Chicago Sports Network is not yet being carried by multiple companies (Comcast, YouTube TV, etc.) and therefore revenue will be greatly impacted during this transition year.  In a normal year it would be nearly impossible for the Sox to lose money with a $75M payroll, but perhaps that’s not the case in 2025 because of lower than usual local TV money.

I don't think so. This was always part of the plan.

[Dick Allen]

5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They help you more than holding onto the guy, spending $15 million on him, getting a bad performance from him, then releasing him at the end of the season. We've done that several times recently. It's how we built the sterling roster we have today.

You keep telling us how bad Thorpe is. Now you're saying it's better to have a guy like him, then gamble and hope Robert plays to his talent level, because if he doesn't, you wind up with nothing. I'm rolling the dice. Panicking with Cease cost the Sox. Hopefully, they learned a lesson.

Edited 2 hours ago by Dick Allen

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

You keep telling us how bad Thorpe is. Now you're saying it's better to have a guy like him, then gamble and hope Robert plays to his talent level, because if he doesn't, you wind up with nothing. I'm rolling the dice. 

yes, I think that was a weak deal, and that is better than losing Robert for nothing.

[southsider2k5]

17 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

You keep telling us how bad Thorpe is. Now you're saying it's better to have a guy like him, then gamble and hope Robert plays to his talent level, because if he doesn't, you wind up with nothing. I'm rolling the dice. Panicking with Cease cost the Sox. Hopefully, they learned a lesson.

Probably the premier move of Rick Hahn's career was not panicking on Jose Quintana and holding on to him until the next deadline and making the deal with the Cubs.

[caulfield12]

Better the devil you know in Robert than the devil our rapidly disappearing scouts are pointing to…with another organization, like a Lux or Bohm.  You’re far likelier to end up exchanging a queen for a rook bishop or knight here.

Or just throw in the towel that Robert’s “cursed” just like Anderson, Jimenez and Moncada.

Except he’s 27 and one year removed from 12th in AL MVP voting…just like Cease was one year removed from second in the Cy, yet much more durable overall.

You’re not even getting anything close to the Cease deal at this point.

Edited 1 hour ago by caulfield12

[PaleAleSox]

I think holding Robert for now and hoping for a bounce back is as much as a no brainer as trading Crochet. You aren't going to get anything of great value for him. 

If you are moving him for another player in a similar spot to him (Lux/Bohm/etc) then I'd at least like to see that person extended for a couple years.

[hogan873]

Robert's health is what makes me nervous about holding on to him.  Aside from 2023, he hasn't been able to get through a season without a significant injury.  But, damn, that 2023 season was nice.  I think we all expect one of two things:

- He gets traded for a less than great return, stays healthy, and has a monster year elsewhere
- He stays put, gets hurt, has a bad year, and the Sox don't pick up his 2026 option

My gut says to trade him if they can get a great return.  But Getz has not proven himself to be a guy who can get max return for a player.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

10 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

Robert's health is what makes me nervous about holding on to him.  Aside from 2023, he hasn't been able to get through a season without a significant injury.  But, damn, that 2023 season was nice.  I think we all expect one of two things:

- He gets traded for a less than great return, stays healthy, and has a monster year elsewhere
- He stays put, gets hurt, has a bad year, and the Sox don't pick up his 2026 option

My gut says to trade him if they can get a great return.  But Getz has not proven himself to be a guy who can get max return for a player.

If you have those feelings, there are certainly other teams and GM's that feel the same way. Sox would certainly be selling low on Robert this offseason. I think it comes down to how much JR wants the payroll slashed and if Getz can get some viable return for him. I'm not expecting anything great if he gets moved.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Players with top line tools who have down years are punished much less by the market (value wise) than players with lesser tools with prior success. 

Most teams look at a guy like Robert and see the ceiling. They'll try to rip Getz off because he's shown it's doable, but it won't be because the team acquiring robert doesn't think he's a 5 war caliber player. 

[steveno89]

17 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Players with top line tools who have down years are punished much less by the market (value wise) than players with lesser tools with prior success. 

Most teams look at a guy like Robert and see the ceiling. They'll try to rip Getz off because he's shown it's doable, but it won't be because the team acquiring robert doesn't think he's a 5 war caliber player. 

Yep

No reason to trade Robert for the sake of trading him at a lesser value this offseason

"But what if he gets hurt?" - So what? Dealing him for a mediocre return does not help the club's future either