How Long Until Getz Gets Real?

[southsider2k5]

5 hours ago, PaleAleSox said:

I'm very confused why people are so upset that the GM has a higher asking price than what he will get on November 26th. You'd be losing your mind if he accepted some offer you deem bad right now. 

Him asking for a lot isn't a problem for me, it's him not panicking if he doesn't get it on Day 1 of the winter meetings that matters to me.

[Sambuca]

Get bent, Getz.

[wrathofhahn]

On 11/26/2024 at 5:14 AM, Texsox said:

So it seems that Getz keeps asking for more than what our guys are reasonably worth. How long until he gets into the same groove as everyone before him? Ask for what they are worth, settle for less than what they are worth, and move on? 

Other teams can get away with it and sometimes come out clear winners in trades, but that's not us. We lose trades. That's our DNA. So stop the nonsense and do the job we expect from you. 

 

 

Look at what we got for Cease. Getz will give in and accept the best crappy offer; I am positive of it.

That is what he does. To be honest, I do not think this organization will progress with the current approach they are using; they seem determined to make the rebuild as painful and drawn out as possible.

If he was smart and the offers are trash make the deal at the deadline that is where you are going to get the best offers anyways not in the off-season because in the off-season fans and GM's all look at their rosters with rose color glasses. He won't. I also don't know why we aren't in on trading for reclimation projects this team is trash and the whole league knows it, so you aren't getting any reputable free agent to sign here without obscenely overpaying them. So why aren't we trading for guys either getting prospects back for teams in need of short-term salary relief or trading for guys who have fallen out of favor? Don't get it it. But it's whatever. The way Getz is running this rebuild it is going to be 5+ years. We aren't getting the kind of franchising altering prospects players in trades and we aren't getting anyone who could generate any surplus value and be valuable in trades.

I fully expect him to sign a bunch of soft-tossing veterans for bloated deals and washed-position players who only signed here because they literally had no other option who wouldn't be worth anything, and that will be the big move of the off-season.

 

 

Edited November 27 by wrathofhahn

[Highland]

I do think Getz is attempting to bring good baseball men into the organization. But if a team is going to truly contend, it can't stay in the rebuild mode forever. And that is the problem. JR doesn't want to spend on free agents and there is nothing Getz can do about that. I don't know what the plans are for this off season, but this team, as of now, of on its way to another awful season. 

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, wrathofhahn said:

 

 

Look at what we got for Cease. Getz will give in and accept the best crappy offer; I am positive of it.

That is what he does. To be honest, I do not think this organization will progress with the current approach they are using; they seem determined to make the rebuild as painful and drawn out as possible.

If he was smart and the offers are trash make the deal at the deadline that is where you are going to get the best offers anyways not in the off-season because in the off-season fans and GM's all look at their rosters with rose color glasses. He won't. I also don't know why we aren't in on trading for reclimation projects this team is trash and the whole league knows it, so you aren't getting any reputable free agent to sign here without obscenely overpaying them. So why aren't we trading for guys either getting prospects back for teams in need of short-term salary relief or trading for guys who have fallen out of favor? Don't get it it. But it's whatever. The way Getz is running this rebuild it is going to be 5+ years. We aren't getting the kind of franchising altering prospects players in trades and we aren't getting anyone who could generate any surplus value and be valuable in trades.

I fully expect him to sign a bunch of soft-tossing veterans for bloated deals and washed-position players who only signed here because they literally had no other option who wouldn't be worth anything, and that will be the big move of the off-season.

 

 

At the last deadline no top prospects we're traded by any team. 

One person's "reclamation project" is another person's "soft-tossing veterans for bloated deals and washed-position players who only signed here because they literally had no other option who wouldn't be worth anything, and that will be the big move of the off-season." 

 

[PaleAleSox]

2 hours ago, Highland said:

I do think Getz is attempting to bring good baseball men into the organization. But if a team is going to truly contend, it can't stay in the rebuild mode forever. And that is the problem. JR doesn't want to spend on free agents and there is nothing Getz can do about that. I don't know what the plans are for this off season, but this team, as of now, of on its way to another awful season. 

I mean it's only been one rebuild year so far. 2023 they for sure didn't view it as a rebuild year, as they were 500 the year before and added Benintendi (which, whatever). It just turned out that Grifol happened to be the worst manager imaginable.

Next year will also be bad, but you SHOULD start to crawl out of it in 26 and that is when you'd hopefully be looking to add. 

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, PaleAleSox said:

I mean it's only been one rebuild year so far. 2023 they for sure didn't view it as a rebuild year, as they were 500 the year before and added Benintendi (which, whatever). It just turned out that Grifol happened to be the worst manager imaginable.

Next year will also be bad, but you SHOULD start to crawl out of it in 26 and that is when you'd hopefully be looking to add. 

Hell they didn't act like 2024 was a rebuild year until they got on pace for the worst season in the history of baseball.

[GreatScott82]

On 11/27/2024 at 10:25 AM, PaleAleSox said:

I mean it's only been one rebuild year so far. 2023 they for sure didn't view it as a rebuild year, as they were 500 the year before and added Benintendi (which, whatever). It just turned out that Grifol happened to be the worst manager imaginable.

Next year will also be bad, but you SHOULD start to crawl out of it in 26 and that is when you'd hopefully be looking to add. 

I really don’t see a situation where they even crawl out of it in 2026. Have you seen the farm system?

Montgomery had an awful 2024 campaign and outside of Quero, they have pretty much nothing to hang their hat on. Hagen Smith and Noah Schultz will be amazing. And I’m hopeful that Thorpe and Cannon stick as starters 3 and 4. The pitching looks bright, especially with Bannister running the show.

However, they have very little offensive talent down in the farm. Sadly, Getz still hasn’t proven to make a legit trade that brings positional talent back from other organizations. Other front offices don’t take Getz seriously. And until he makes a big boy trade worth taking about, this organization must rely on drafting and developing. An area that has crippled this franchise for decades.

I’m hopeful that the Ryan Fuller hire is a step in the right direction for the offense. I hope he can turn this archaic franchise in the right direction offensively. But it will likely take another 2-3 seasons before we see the fruit of this inevitable labor. So for me, the hope to crawl out of the basement will likely realistically take place in 2027 or 2028. They have a very long way to go. 

Edited 4 hours ago by GreatScott82

[greg775]

1 hour ago, GreatScott82 said:

But it will likely take another 2-3 seasons before we see the fruit of this inevitable labor. So for me, the hope to crawl out of the basement will likely realistically take place in 2027 or 2028. They have a very long way to go. 

Scary that we'll be on the cusp of another presidential election by the time the Sox start to sniff .500. Time flies. In my next life I'm going to pick the Yankees or Dodgers to be my team not the worst franchise in all of sports.

[46DidIt]

Madrigal only needs like 2750 hits to get to 3000

[ron883]

@Harold's Leg Lift

[WhiteSox2023]

52 minutes ago, ron883 said:

@Harold's Leg Lift

I missed Ron…

🧌😈

[poppysox]

15 hours ago, greg775 said:

Scary that we'll be on the cusp of another presidential election by the time the Sox start to sniff .500. Time flies. In my next life I'm going to pick the Yankees or Dodgers to be my team not the worst franchise in all of sports.

When you become a Dodger or Yankee fan... the Sox will be sold to Elon Musk and the Sox will never lose again.  That's how life works.

[WestEddy]

16 minutes ago, poppysox said:

When you become a Dodger or Yankee fan... the Sox will be sold to Elon Musk and the Sox will never lose again.  That's how life works.

Great. So you're saying the Sox being run like Twitter is a step up? 

[poppysox]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Great. So you're saying the Sox being run like Twitter is a step up? 

I'm saying money talks in building good baseball teams.

[greg775]

8 hours ago, poppysox said:

I'm saying money talks in building good baseball teams.

What's most frustrating is the Sox for the first time in their history during this crash have no good players. Throughout history they've always had somebody elite. Now if 'somehow' you get an excellent one you have to trade him for 3-4 prospects. Even most years of Veeck's ownership the Sox had somebody worth paying to see. They even tried the year they had Ron Blomberg but he couldn't fill the shoes of somebody elite like Rich Zisk.

[poppysox]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

What's most frustrating is the Sox for the first time in their history during this crash have no good players. Throughout history they've always had somebody elite. Now if 'somehow' you get an excellent one you have to trade him for 3-4 prospects. Even most years of Veeck's ownership the Sox had somebody worth paying to see. They even tried the year they had Ron Blomberg but he couldn't fill the shoes of somebody elite like Rich Zisk.

As I have said many times...the minimum requirement is to be entertaining.  

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

What's most frustrating is the Sox for the first time in their history during this crash have no good players. Throughout history they've always had somebody elite. Now if 'somehow' you get an excellent one you have to trade him for 3-4 prospects. Even most years of Veeck's ownership the Sox had somebody worth paying to see. They even tried the year they had Ron Blomberg but he couldn't fill the shoes of somebody elite like Rich Zisk.

If nobody's elite, then why do we have to hang onto Crochet?

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

If nobody's elite, then why do we have to hang onto Crochet?

Because Richie Zisk is the new definition of elite for Sox fans...well obviously they're not wedded to holding on to any of the players on their current active 25 man roster.

Of course, that's a big part of the problem...nothing of permanence or added value other than Crochet and a handful of minor leaguers and reminiscing over 2023 Robert.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

Because Richie Zisk is the new definition of elite for Sox fans...well obviously they're not wedded to holding on to any of the players on their current active 25 man roster.

Of course, that's a big part of the problem...nothing of permanence or added value other than Crochet and a handful of minor leaguers and reminiscing over 2023 Robert.

There is some truth to that but I'd gladly take what Zisk put up that season in 1977, 30 home runs, 101 RBI's and a .290 batting average. 

[hi8is]

On 11/27/2024 at 11:40 AM, GreatScott82 said:

I really don’t see a situation where they even crawl out of it in 2026. Have you seen the farm system? Montgomery had an awful 2024 campaign and outside of Quero, they have pretty much nothing to hang their hat on. Hagen Smith and Noah Schultz will be amazing. And I’m hopeful that Thorpe and Cannon stick as starters 3 and 4. The pitching looks bright, especially with Bannister running the show. However, they have very little offensive talent down in the farm. Sadly, Getz still hasn’t proven to make a legit trade that brings positional talent back from other organizations. Other front offices don’t take Getz seriously. And until he makes a big boy trade worth taking about, this organization must rely on drafting and developing. An area that has crippled this franchise for decades. I’m hopeful that the Ryan Fuller hire is a step in the right direction for the offense. I hope he can turn this archaic franchise in the right direction offensively. But it will likely take another 2-3 seasons before we see the fruit of this inevitable labor. So for me, the hope to crawl out of the basement will likely realistically take place in 2027 or 2028. They have a very long way to go. 

Totally on the same page… ps:

Please use paragraphs. Otherwise, it’s hard to read your posts. 😆

[hi8is]

19 hours ago, poppysox said:

When you become a Dodger or Yankee fan... the Sox will be sold to Elon Musk and the Sox will never lose again.  That's how life works.

Ain’t that a fact.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 11/26/2024 at 6:34 AM, Snopek said:

I’m not following.

All I’m saying is it’s kind of wild to assume that starting off with an already low asking price will result in a quicker resolution and/or higher return. I think the standard process would still play out.

Getz has yet to show enough in trades that would lead me to believe this strategy would work out in his favor.

What am I missing here?

I agree. It's silly talk to say Getz asking prices are too high.Thats just buying into the rich or opposing side narrative that top position prospects are gold.

It may not be deliberate collusion but all of a sudden top 50 prospects weren't being moved recently . All we hear is it's crazy talk to think well get anyone in the top 20.

Getz is already severely limited by the "screw you JR " anti-tanking new draft rules. It's no coincidence that teams started prospect hugging shortly after the league crippled cheap owners/ poor teams ability to get good returns in trades for star players with limited control by limiting their ability to draft where they should according to record. Baseball already was the hardest sport to project how a prospect will develop. High picks give you a better shot but it's no panacea. There is no reason to try to screw bad teams. The bad teams like the Sox constantly screw themselves over because they cheap out on scouting and player development.

It didn't help the Sox that much getting Moncada, Jimenez, Kopech, Giolito, Lopez,  Cease ,Collins, Vaughn, Madrigal , Crochet and Robert.Top guys bust more often than they turn into stars for multiple years. Everyone gets enamored with the upside but the downside is a bust. It's no wonder a 3 WAR guy like Wilyer Abreu looks attractive when our last rebuild couldn't produce a single guy worth 15 WAR over a 5 year period or even a 12 WAR over a 4 year period. You can check me on this. Im just guessing.

The league may pretend they want parity but what they really want is a Dodgers - Yankees World Series every year. Revenue sharing is just a way to pretend to even things up a little bit. It does nothing to help the Sox .

Not only do we have JR but now the league has empowered the rich teams even more in the draft and as a result in trades too for rebuilding teams. Screwed on all sides to dig out of this mess created by JR  . Getz doesn't stand a chance. He's doing what he can to hire the right people and playing the long game so maybe any prospects stand a better chance of succeeding than the last bunch did but JR will die eventually and more chaos will ensue.

 

 

Edited Friday at 01:51 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Highland]

In essence, the Sox have been rebuilding since winning the division in 08. Tried a number of things and they haven't worked. The most frustrating thing about the rebuild is they actually picked up some real young talent, but things still didn't work out. I don't have any idea what their strategy is now other than slashing the payroll.

[Texsox]

53 minutes ago, Highland said:

In essence, the Sox have been rebuilding since winning the division in 08. Tried a number of things and they haven't worked. The most frustrating thing about the rebuild is they actually picked up some real young talent, but things still didn't work out. I don't have any idea what their strategy is now other than slashing the payroll.

There isn't a definition or stat that we all will agree with. I think we could also use 2023 as the date of the rebuild. 

2020 and 2021 were historic in that it was the first back to back playoff appearances in team history. 2022 was a team that Vegas felt was a top 7 team to win the World Series. 

By White Sox standards that's about as good as it gets.