Coaching Staff

[Chicago White Sox]

Sounds like Venable is keeping everyone around except Gellinger & Sisson.  It appears the only person we don’t know yet is the assistant hitting coach.

[caulfield12]

15 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Sounds like Venable is keeping everyone around except Gellinger & Sisson.  It appears the only person we don’t know yet is the assistant hitting coach.

Gellinger has been with organization for most of his coaching  career...probably gets reassigned to minors.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Gellinger has been with organization for most of his coaching  career...probably gets reassigned to minors.

Both and Sisson will remain in the org apparently.

[PaleAleSox]

so JJ still at third and I honestly have no memory of who took over 1st base. 

[Vote4Pedro]

How Katz still has a job is beyond me.

[Sleepy Harold]

37 minutes ago, PaleAleSox said:

so JJ still at third and I honestly have no memory of who took over 1st base. 

Jason Bourgeois was the first base coach 

[Boopa1219]

58 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

How Katz still has a job is beyond me.

I don’t get why people have it out for Katz, by all accounts he’s pretty good at his job and there’s an established working relationship with Bannister from their time in San Francisco.

The Sox lost 121 games last year but the pitching was the only thing that was reliable all season.

***********
I’m not upset for the Sox keeping the 2.0 coaching staff around, there was a clear difference with the team once Grifol and his lieutenants were given the boot but I was hoping for some new blood to join them. And for some new roles to be created on the staff. 

[wegner]

19 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

I don’t get why people have it out for Katz, by all accounts he’s pretty good at his job and there’s an established working relationship with Bannister from their time in San Francisco.

The Sox lost 121 games last year but the pitching was the only thing that was reliable all season.

***********
I’m not upset for the Sox keeping the 2.0 coaching staff around, there was a clear difference with the team once Grifol and his lieutenants were given the boot but I was hoping for some new blood to join them. And for some new roles to be created on the staff. 

I'm guessing you meant the starting pitching was reliable.....the bullpen was reliably abysmal all season, but I guess you can blame Getz more for that.

[southsider2k5]

29 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

I don’t get why people have it out for Katz, by all accounts he’s pretty good at his job and there’s an established working relationship with Bannister from their time in San Francisco.

The Sox lost 121 games last year but the pitching was the only thing that was reliable all season.

***********
I’m not upset for the Sox keeping the 2.0 coaching staff around, there was a clear difference with the team once Grifol and his lieutenants were given the boot but I was hoping for some new blood to join them. And for some new roles to be created on the staff. 

I don't get either extreme for Katz.  Crochet had a year, but the staff as a whole was pretty much expected or worse and balanced that out.

[Vote4Pedro]

I’m not out for anyone, but this will make his 3rd manager. Giolito is long gone, and I’d say the majority of the pitching vastly underperformed last year. Time to bring someone new in, especially with the kids coming up in the minors 

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, Vote4Pedro said:

I’m not out for anyone, but this will make his 3rd manager. Giolito is long gone, and I’d say the majority of the pitching vastly underperformed last year. Time to bring someone new in, especially with the kids coming up in the minors 

 

When someone makes it to their third manager, second GM, and sticks around after the team hires a Pitching Director above him, I think it's time fans stop saying, "I don't know how he sticks around" and instead ask, "Why can't I figure out why he keeps staying?"

— Jordan Lazowski (@jlazowski14) December 1, 2024

 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

 

 

Or, the Sox sign on to mediocrity (and worse)  for long periods of time.  I, for one, won't equate the Sox continuing to employ someone as them being good at their job.  Call it the LaRussa Rule.

[Boopa1219]

6 hours ago, wegner said:

I'm guessing you meant the starting pitching was reliable.....the bullpen was reliably abysmal all season, but I guess you can blame Getz more for that.

Yeah the bullpen was awful but I guess that was by design, rebuilding teams rarely invest into their bullpens. I am expecting it to be better this coming season, they have lots of intriguing bullpen pieces in the system. And while we’re talking about the bullpen, I hope Getz doesn’t invest so heavily in their bullpen. In 2022, the Sox have a $203M payroll, $33M of that was spent on the bullpen. That’s 16% of their payroll. In 2024 the Dodgers spent about 10% of their budget on the bullpen.

 

5 hours ago, WestEddy said:

 

 

Couldn’t agree more

[greg775]

I don't really care he's kept so many coaches. What I am wondering is this a cost saving move? Were the coaches all under 1 year deals or would they have to paid settlements to the assistants if they canned them?

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

I don't really care he's kept so many coaches. What I am wondering is this a cost saving move? Were the coaches all under 1 year deals or would they have to paid settlements to the assistants if they canned them?

Good question.  The Sox have just as much of a problem “cleaning house” as the Bears do and it usually screws over both teams.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 hours ago, greg775 said:

I don't really care he's kept so many coaches. What I am wondering is this a cost saving move? Were the coaches all under 1 year deals or would they have to paid settlements to the assistants if they canned them?

They fired three assistant coaches during the middle of last season.  Venable is replacing two of those spots with McKinven as bench coach and a TBD as the new assistant hitting coach.  Jirschele is sticking around as the 3B coach, which makes sense given his youth & stature.  Beyond that, it’s mostly guys that were brought in last year under Getz with the exception of Katz.  Thames as hitting coach, Bourgeois as 1B coach, Wise as assistant pitching coach, Butera as catching coach, and Sizemore as a “major league coach”.

Ultimately, I don’t see this as being a big deal.  Venable has only been coaching for seven years and probably doesn’t have a massive network.  Hard to come in and replace the entire coaching staff if you don’t have obvious candidates that are currently seeking employment or that were part of your previous staff (and those guys are all tied to Bochy).  We’ll certainly see turnover over the next few seasons as Venable learns who he likes and other options become available. 

Additionally, I think the pitching and hitting directors will (and should) have a lot of say on who are in those roles.  It’s very clear that Bannister and Katz have a good working relationship and it was likely he and Wise were going to stay.  I’m a little surprised about Thames just because of the addition of Fuller, but Getz did just bring him in as I mentioned above so perhaps their philosophies are more aligned than we realize.  And they are replacing Tosar / Gellinger as the assistant, so it’s not like they are 100% sticking with the status quo there.

[Kyyle23]

I think it’s a big deal that it seems that the Sox are the only team in the league that tells prospective managers “we picked out your staff”. 
in isolation, yea Katz is fine he has some hits and misses.  They just hired some of these guys last season so we don’t really know what they bring.   But this isn’t in isolation, this is a regularly occurring thing for this ownership front office and frankly it sucks that these guys come in and they can’t even hire their own guys outside of a few positions.  
 

hope it works out for Venable, hasn’t really worked out for his predecessors save one

[Texsox]

Katz was part of the friends and family hiring spree. I don't think we would do much better than him. At least he seems like he's from this century. 

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

Yeah the bullpen was awful but I guess that was by design, rebuilding teams rarely invest into their bullpens. I am expecting it to be better this coming season, they have lots of intriguing bullpen pieces in the system. And while we’re talking about the bullpen, I hope Getz doesn’t invest so heavily in their bullpen. In 2022, the Sox have a $203M payroll, $33M of that was spent on the bullpen. That’s 16% of their payroll. In 2024 the Dodgers spent about 10% of their budget on the bullpen.

 

Couldn’t agree more

Between Kimbrel Hendriks Kelly Graveman Bummer they had to be over $33 million the second half of 2021...well, essentially they were forced into the Pollock contract because of the QO for Kimbrel instead of Rodon.

I guess Kelly/Graveman were added going into 2022...but it feels like years ago.  Then you had Lopez who was essentially in the pen for most of one of those seasons as well.

[Chicago White Sox]

22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think it’s a big deal that it seems that the Sox are the only team in the league that tells prospective managers “we picked out your staff”. 
in isolation, yea Katz is fine he has some hits and misses.  They just hired some of these guys last season so we don’t really know what they bring.   But this isn’t in isolation, this is a regularly occurring thing for this ownership front office and frankly it sucks that these guys come in and they can’t even hire their own guys outside of a few positions.  
 

hope it works out for Venable, hasn’t really worked out for his predecessors save one

I don’t disagree with your general premise, especially if they did in fact say “we picked your staff”.  But in this particular case, I’m less concerned given that the bulk of Venable’s coaching experience has come from two orgs with very stable leadership (Bochy & Cora).  And perhaps he plans to pillage a few people from Bochy’s staff after the 2025 season once Schumaker takes over.  And while not deserved, I’d probably give them the benefit of the doubt for now that this was combined decision and not something Chris just forced on Will.  It’s not we’re talking a subpar candidate in Pedro here.  Venable had other options and likely would have passed on this job if Getz was going to completely control his staff.

It’s also less of an issue for me because there are no obvious red flags on the coaching staff.  First and foremost, there is no clear front office snitch like Daryl Boston.  Second, all of Grifol’s lackeys have been fired.  Finally, the two older coaches brought in mid-season as placeholders (Sisson & Gellinger) are being reallocated elsewhere in the org.  I’m sure they are both good people, but they would have certainly have felt forced upon Venable if kept around.

Ultimately, we brought in a young, but super interesting manager (42) and have surrounded him with a young and interesting coaching staff.  McKinven (35) is a fascinating hire for bench coach on paper.  Keeping Sizemore (42) around is a huge win given the respect he commands from the players.  I’ve always been a big fan of Jirschele (34) and was excited when he was added to the coaching staff last year amidst the purge.  Bourgeois (42) spent five years in the Dodgers’ player development system prior to this, which makes him a perfect fit for a rebuilding club.  And Butera (41) is a long-time catcher who was still pushing for major league playing time into his late 30’s.  To me, those are the core guys on Venable’s staff that he should have full say on and they all seem warranted.

The hitting and pitching coaches are a little different, because I believe those naturally require more buy-in from the front office and their respective directors.  I can’t really offer much justification for Thames, other than Getz just hired him last year and perhaps he still fits their broader vision.  And they will be bringing a new assistant hitting coach and not forcing some org guy into that role at least.  And candidly, I do like Katz as an extension of Bannister and am glad that he was brought back.  Wise is a whatever for me as long as Katz & Bannister feel he can get the job done.  Changing out the pitching coaches that already get along with Bannister would have a high risk, low reward move IMO.

[Kyyle23]

You are free to believe that this organization will be doing the right things.  I have learned my lesson

[GREEDY]

He's keeping the coaches that were under contract.  They replaced the coaches that weren't under contract.  Jerry's way.  

 

[Chicago White Sox]

35 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

You are free to believe that this organization will be doing the right things.  I have learned my lesson

Did you like or dislike the Venable hire out of curiosity?

[Kyyle23]

23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Did you like or dislike the Venable hire out of curiosity?

Ambivalent.  I think he is not set up for success and I don’t think he will reach it here given the circumstances.  It’s gonna be a long road back to mediocrity much less competitive respectability, and a lot of people are gonna be in and out of the doors.  I don’t have a lot of excitement for this organization right now and honestly they have made that real easy.   

[Kyyle23]

27 minutes ago, GREEDY said:

He's keeping the coaches that were under contract.  They replaced the coaches that weren't under contract.  Jerry's way.  

 

Went back to look at coaching staffs from back when I was younger and really started paying attention to baseball, Joe Nossek, Walt Hriniak and Terry Bevington were carried through three coaching staffs (Nossek 4 because he made it through Bevington into Manuel’s staff).  Then you look at Boston and Cooper and realize it’s just the same thing.  It stinks.  They never let anyone start fresh with their own staff