Severino to A's for 3 years / $67M

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

This is old news and no longer relevant.  The Sox have taken high schoolers with five of their last seven 2nd round picks.  The other two picks were two higher ceiling SPs coming off TJS (one of which is Taylor).  There is plenty to rip the White Sox for, an outdated draft strategy isn’t one of them.

It will be old news once some combination of Peyton Pallette, Grant Taylor, Caleb Bonemer, and Blake Larson make the majors and have some success.

[Balta1701]

42 minutes ago, Texsox said:

So do we prefer low payroll, stay in Chicago or high payroll and moving? High payroll, stay in Chicago just isn't a choice at this point in the build. 

From the philosophical perspective here…please tell me why. Why exactly is it impossible to support a regularly solid payroll team like the Astros or Phillies or Rangers in Chicago? Right now, fine - because the team is so so bad, but why are the White Sox in a larger market so much worse off financially than teams in smaller markets?

[southsider2k5]

14 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Could be Grant Taylor 

Only if he learns to stay healthy first.

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

From the philosophical perspective here…please tell me why. Why exactly is it impossible to support a regularly solid payroll team like the Astros or Phillies or Rangers in Chicago? Right now, fine - because the team is so so bad, but why are the White Sox in a larger market so much worse off financially than teams in smaller markets?

[Balta1701]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am uncertain if this is more or less funny due to the unsolved shooting in the outfield during a white Sox game.

[Texsox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

From the philosophical perspective here…please tell me why. Why exactly is it impossible to support a regularly solid payroll team like the Astros or Phillies or Rangers in Chicago? Right now, fine - because the team is so so bad, but why are the White Sox in a larger market so much worse off financially than teams in smaller markets?

Keeping on the philosophical side. You (probably accidentally) picked three single team markets. We're the #2 team in the market. How big is our market? We've never really come up with a satisfying answer. Also two of the teams you picked have no competition for hundreds of miles. 

The Sox seem to spend time in the top 10 or bottom 10 in payroll. Occasionally top 5. 

Fans expect teams to utilize the equity growth in the value of the franchise to finance budget deficits. 

 

[Tnetennba]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:48 AM, Texsox said:

Keeping on the philosophical side. You (probably accidentally) picked three single team markets. We're the #2 team in the market. How big is our market? We've never really come up with a satisfying answer. Also two of the teams you picked have no competition for hundreds of miles. 

The Sox seem to spend time in the top 10 or bottom 10 in payroll. Occasionally top 5. 

Fans expect teams to utilize the equity growth in the value of the franchise to finance budget deficits. 

 

In 2021, a season in which attendance was still impacted by Covid, White Sox drew 1.59M, above the AL average of 1.32M. In 2022, the Sox cracked 2M, above the AL average of 1.94M. 

The past two season have been a disaster, yes, and attendance reflected that. But to say the White Sox portion of the Chicago market cannot support the team is false. 

[greg775]

He missed the 2020 season. So I assume he's already had the requisite Tommy John surgery? That's a lotta money. Is he the 30-year-old pitcher who won 33 games in 2017 and 18 and 11 last year with 3.91 ERA or the guy with a 6.65 ERA in 2023? 

[WestEddy]

On 12/6/2024 at 7:55 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

It will be old news once some combination of Peyton Pallette, Grant Taylor, Caleb Bonemer, and Blake Larson make the majors and have some success.

That's not valid. Most teams don't have stellar records drafting and developing 2nd rounders because every team uses the 2nd round differently. One might hit the jackpot on Josh Bell, but still "suck" at the process. 

One goal is to be recognized as being able to identify and develop prospects. That becomes its own currency. San Diego has traded entire lineups of prospects that never seem to have sustained success in the majors. But they create value in amassing young players who seem to dominate their levels. The fact the White Sox have been able to turn late first rounders into top 20 in the game prospects is a success in itself. We don't need Colson Montgomery to become a Hall-of-Famer and for the curmudgeons to admit the Sox knew what they were doing - to be developing prospects. While he may have lost a bit of his shine, Monty would still head up a pretty strong package in a trade. In another year, Blake Larson and a healthy Grant Taylor would be highly sought after pitching prospects. 

Hostetler didn't have many good drafts. Maybe one. Too much meddling from above? Too much trying to be clever by half? Shirley seems to have a better plan, and a better grasp of what the Sox can do with the guys they pick. Correcting major flaws in guys like Alec Hansen, Zach Collins and Tyler Danish wasn't their forte. But bringing ace pitchers back from TJS at the nadir of their value looks like an easy win. 

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

In 2021, a season in which attendance was still impacted by Covid, White Sox drew 1.59M, above the AL average of 1.32M. In 2022, the Sox cracked 2M, above the AL average of 1.94M. 

The past two season have been a disaster, yes, and attendance reflected that. But to say the White Sox portion of the Chicago market cannot support the team is false. 

It can support a team. Even if you don't split the population in half, and give the Cubs the edge, you would be looking at close to a million population. 

But that's not all the factors. San Antonio for example has a much higher population than 2/3rds of MLB teams. Experts point to the lack of corporate headquarters and major business interests. The Sox and Cubs are competing for advertising sales and major underwriters. 

If a company is looking to partner with MLB baseball they have options in a couple cities. 

[WhiteSox2023]

On 12/6/2024 at 9:11 AM, Balta1701 said:

I am uncertain if this is more or less funny due to the unsolved shooting in the outfield during a white Sox game.

Definitely funnier.  Even funnier considering the mayor colluded with the teacher who hid the gun in her rolls along with Jerry to cover up the story.

Edited December 7 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

That's not valid. Most teams don't have stellar records drafting and developing 2nd rounders because every team uses the 2nd round differently. One might hit the jackpot on Josh Bell, but still "suck" at the process. 

One goal is to be recognized as being able to identify and develop prospects. That becomes its own currency. San Diego has traded entire lineups of prospects that never seem to have sustained success in the majors. But they create value in amassing young players who seem to dominate their levels. The fact the White Sox have been able to turn late first rounders into top 20 in the game prospects is a success in itself. We don't need Colson Montgomery to become a Hall-of-Famer and for the curmudgeons to admit the Sox knew what they were doing - to be developing prospects. While he may have lost a bit of his shine, Monty would still head up a pretty strong package in a trade. In another year, Blake Larson and a healthy Grant Taylor would be highly sought after pitching prospects. 

Hostetler didn't have many good drafts. Maybe one. Too much meddling from above? Too much trying to be clever by half? Shirley seems to have a better plan, and a better grasp of what the Sox can do with the guys they pick. Correcting major flaws in guys like Alec Hansen, Zach Collins and Tyler Danish wasn't their forte. But bringing ace pitchers back from TJS at the nadir of their value looks like an easy win. 

It’s all valid.  The Sox have historically been terrible at drafting in the 2nd round, as well as drafting position players in general.  There’s a reason the Sox lineup is absolutely terrible right now.  The same organization that thought Fletcher and Vargas would be good acquisitions is ultimately in charge of drafting players.  Like I said, I’ll believe the Sox drafting of position players has improved when I see the results.  And note, I do think the Sox have been pretty good at drafting pitchers.

Edited December 7 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

It’s all valid.  The Sox have historically been terrible at drafting in the 2nd round, as well as drafting position players in general.  There’s a reason the Sox lineup is absolutely terrible right now.  The same organization that thought Fletcher and Vargas would be good acquisitions is ultimately in charge of drafting players.  Like I said, I’ll believe the Sox drafting of position players has improved when I see the results.

No, it isn't valid. Historically? Like, when Shirley announces his first round pick, he prefaces it with, "Because we've always picked bad players, the Chicago White Sox must select......My Daughter!!!!" 

That's silly and irrelevant. The only history that applies is 2020 and forward. I get it. You hate Chris Getz. And your whole shtick is that there is nothing the White Sox can do that works, or has any modicum of success. The people who would barge into the war room and make the first round selection are gone, now. So unless you're implying that Kenny Williams still walks in and takes over their 1st round picks, your "historically" argument doesn't apply. 

Your contribution to this thread began with dredging up a 2nd round pick from 7 years ago. Made by a different scouting team, under a different GM and VP. Then you declared that we don't get to consider Grant Taylor as a possible success until he's had success in the majors. Please tell us what bearing the picks of Jake Petricka and Erik Johnson have on Grant Taylor coming back from injury, and dominating like his pedigree and small sample in A-ball suggest. 

[WhiteSox2023]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

No, it isn't valid. Historically? Like, when Shirley announces his first round pick, he prefaces it with, "Because we've always picked bad players, the Chicago White Sox must select......My Daughter!!!!" 

That's silly and irrelevant. The only history that applies is 2020 and forward. I get it. You hate Chris Getz. And your whole shtick is that there is nothing the White Sox can do that works, or has any modicum of success. The people who would barge into the war room and make the first round selection are gone, now. So unless you're implying that Kenny Williams still walks in and takes over their 1st round picks, your "historically" argument doesn't apply. 

Your contribution to this thread began with dredging up a 2nd round pick from 7 years ago. Made by a different scouting team, under a different GM and VP. Then you declared that we don't get to consider Grant Taylor as a possible success until he's had success in the majors. Please tell us what bearing the picks of Jake Petricka and Erik Johnson have on Grant Taylor coming back from injury, and dominating like his pedigree and small sample in A-ball suggest. 

You mentioned prospect names like Montgomery, Larson, and Taylor.  There have been hyped up prospect names in the past that didn’t pan out, just like how some of these guys won’t.  I’ll wait and see when they are successful major leaguers.  Otherwise, it doesn’t mean all that much.  MLB results matter, not prospect hype.  And the Sox have still not proven that they can draft and develop position players.

Edited December 7 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

You mentioned prospect names like Montgomery, Larson, and Taylor.  There have been hyped up prospect names in the past that didn’t pan out, just like how some of these guys won’t.  I’ll wait and see when they are successful major leaguers.  Otherwise, it doesn’t mean all that much.  MLB results matter, not prospect hype.  And the Sox have still not proven that they can draft and develop position players.

All prospects in the game are hyped. Most don't pan out. The White Sox don't have to prove it to you. They just need to prove it to teams they might trade with. And at this point, I'd guess that any team would jump at a trade package put together from the White Sox' top ten. Wait and see all you want. But Dony Lucy, Brent Knackert and Mike Colbern don't have any real salience in the discussion. 

Look at teams like the Yankees. They're about as bad at the 2nd round as the White Sox are. And guys like Nick Solak and Austin Romine had the sh*t hyped out of them. I suppose you can go tell Yankee fans that their 2nd round picks are all garbage because "historically", the Yanks are bad at that. 

[caulfield12]

The problem as always been JR weighing in on first round draft picks.

It's not a shocker that one of our recent Top 15 picks in Jacob Gonzalez is nowhere to be found on the BA top prospects list.

That pick was second guessed from the very beginning by nearly everyone.

[WestEddy]

36 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

The problem as always been JR weighing in on first round draft picks.

It's not a shocker that one of our recent Top 15 picks in Jacob Gonzalez is nowhere to be found on the BA top prospects list.

That pick was second guessed from the very beginning by nearly everyone.

I do remember Jay-Gone being the best hitter on the board at the time of the pick, albeit with the lowest ceiling. Point taken. 

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Look at teams like the Yankees. They're about as bad at the 2nd round as the White Sox are. And guys like Nick Solak and Austin Romine had the sh*t hyped out of them. I suppose you can go tell Yankee fans that their 2nd round picks are all garbage because "historically", the Yanks are bad at that. 

Is there a big difference between a pick at the top of the 2nd round (technically slot 40) and compensatory pick # 32 in the 2013 draft?

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

All prospects in the game are hyped. Most don't pan out. The White Sox don't have to prove it to you. They just need to prove it to teams they might trade with. And at this point, I'd guess that any team would jump at a trade package put together from the White Sox' top ten. Wait and see all you want. But Dony Lucy, Brent Knackert and Mike Colbern don't have any real salience in the discussion. 

Look at teams like the Yankees. They're about as bad at the 2nd round as the White Sox are. And guys like Nick Solak and Austin Romine had the sh*t hyped out of them. I suppose you can go tell Yankee fans that their 2nd round picks are all garbage because "historically", the Yanks are bad at that. 

Comparing the White Sox to the Yankees is a bit disingenuous.  The Yankees will actually spend money on free agents which can cover for many drafting and developing failures they may have.  Jerry refuses to do so.  So when the Sox fail at drafting and development, the only way they can acquire talent is by trading established players for prospects that hit or the once every few years good cheap signing of a guy like Fedde, considering whomever the White Sox GM is at the time is mostly dumpster diving each and every offseason.  It’s simply not enough for any success, much less sustained success.

Edited December 7 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

22 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Comparing the White Sox to the Yankees is a bit disingenuous.  The Yankees will actually spend money on free agents which can cover for many drafting and developing failures they may have.  Jerry refuses to do so.  So when the Sox fail at drafting and development, the only way they can acquire talent is by trading established players for prospects that hit or the once every few years good cheap signing of a guy like Fedde, considering whomever the White Sox GM is at the time is mostly dumpster diving each and every offseason.  It’s simply not enough for any success, much less sustained success.

But we are talking about drafting and developing right now. The Yankees don't purposefully draft badly, then refrain from developing their prospects because they know they'll just shell out money for free agents. That's absurd. 

Your assertions were that draft picks made over a decade ago have direct bearing on how our current front office and player development setup do their jobs. "Historically" doesn't matter. I picked a team that has "historically" had the ever lovin' feces hyped out of their farm system, and their players failed, probably at the same rate as everyone else's. 

The Sox have made big changes in personnel, resources and approach to their minor league system. Whether it works or not remains to be seen. It's lazy to keep falling back on "dumpster diving" or pretending that Chris Getz has always been the White Sox GM. If prospect development doesn't matter to you, then I don't see why you keep clocking in on how bad the current 16 month old regime is so bad at it, especially when you only argue about a guy drafted 7 years ago. 

[champagne030]

On 12/6/2024 at 10:48 AM, Texsox said:

Keeping on the philosophical side. You (probably accidentally) picked three single team markets. We're the #2 team in the market. How big is our market? We've never really come up with a satisfying answer. Also two of the teams you picked have no competition for hundreds of miles. 

The Sox seem to spend time in the top 10 or bottom 10 in payroll. Occasionally top 5. 

Fans expect teams to utilize the equity growth in the value of the franchise to finance budget deficits. 

 

I know where Caulfield got his numbers and maybe the Sox were bottom two in revenue, but they most certainly took in well over, WELL OVER, $300M in revenue.  They get over $200M without lifting a finger or a butt in the seat.  I'd be good if that went back into the "cookie jar", but it goes straight to Jerry's fat ass wallet and is never to be used again.

[southsider2k5]

3 hours ago, WestEddy said:

All prospects in the game are hyped. Most don't pan out. The White Sox don't have to prove it to you. They just need to prove it to teams they might trade with. And at this point, I'd guess that any team would jump at a trade package put together from the White Sox' top ten. Wait and see all you want. But Dony Lucy, Brent Knackert and Mike Colbern don't have any real salience in the discussion. 

Look at teams like the Yankees. They're about as bad at the 2nd round as the White Sox are. And guys like Nick Solak and Austin Romine had the sh*t hyped out of them. I suppose you can go tell Yankee fans that their 2nd round picks are all garbage because "historically", the Yanks are bad at that. 

Drew Thorpe is garbage?  Interesting.

[Texsox]

1 hour ago, champagne030 said:

I know where Caulfield got his numbers and maybe the Sox were bottom two in revenue, but they most certainly took in well over, WELL OVER, $300M in revenue.  They get over $200M without lifting a finger or a butt in the seat.  I'd be good if that went back into the "cookie jar", but it goes straight to Jerry's fat ass wallet and is never to be used again.

Why do all the other Sox owners allow that? 

[Lip Man 1]

54 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Why do all the other Sox owners allow that? 

The other owners have literally no say, none in the process. It is written into JR's deal that he and he alone is the sole decision maker regarding the franchise operation. 

And as long as the franchise is making money, which I believe they are, why would they complain in the first place?

Edited December 8 by Lip Man 1

[caulfield12]

4 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I do remember Jay-Gone being the best hitter on the board at the time of the pick, albeit with the lowest ceiling. Point taken. 

But zero plus tools...that was always the downside, when college hit tools have to carry a player.