Crochet Traded to Boston

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

During the previous rebuild they had 10. The rankings are fun, but don't mean anything unless they produce.

And we HAVE TO develop so much better than we did under the last team.  Even if they  might have a less than ideal attitude.

[DirtySox]

Law on the trade.

Quote

This deal could be a home run for the White Sox, but it rests pretty heavily on Braden Montgomery’s ankle. Montgomery was Boston’s first-round pick in 2024, selected just a few weeks after he fractured his ankle in Texas A&M’s Super Regional game against Oregon while trying to score from second base on a single to left.

When healthy, he was one of the best prospects in the draft class, ranking No. 4 on my final Big Board, as he makes extremely hard contact and does so consistently. He’s a right-fielder with a 70 arm and plays above-average defense there, while at the plate, he’s a switch-hitter who has power from both sides but has been a much more productive hitter batting left-handed, to the point where some amateur scouts questioned whether he should even keep hitting right-handed. (I saw him hit a monster homer right-handed at Globe Life Field last March, which makes it hard for me to accept that he might not be able to keep hitting that way, even though that is the anecdotal fallacy incarnate.)

He was originally in the same draft class as the unrelated White Sox prospect Colson Montgomery, but chose to go to Stanford rather than going pro, then transferred to College Station after two years as a Cardinal. If the ankle injury has no lasting effects, the White Sox just got a guy with All-Star upside.

Kyle Teel’s inclusion is a mild surprise, just because he seemed primed to be the Red Sox’ starting catcher by the end of 2025. He’s a great athlete for the position and has strong bat speed with doubles power, going right to Double A to start his first full pro season, hitting .299/.390/.462 there and then hitting .255/.374/.343 in 28 games in Triple A at the end of the year.

He’s a left-handed hitter who has shown a modest platoon split so far in the minors, with less power and a 31 percent strikeout rate against southpaws in 2024, although he’s also had all of about 130 pro plate appearances against them. It’s more an area for development than an area for concern. I think he’s an above-average regular or a little better, as he’s a strong receiver with a plus arm and moves really well behind the dish, while his bat will be well above the norm for the position.

Right-hander Wikelman Gonzalez has a great arm but poor control, walking 46 guys in 83 2/3 innings last year (12.8 percent), although that was an improvement from the year before (14.7 percent). He’s 95-98 mph and it plays up because he comes from a low three-quarters slot, getting more ride and carry on the pitch.

The Red Sox had him add a slider last year, which is a much more natural fit for his arm slot than a curveball, although it’s still a work in progress. His changeup looks fringy but has been effective so far just from the velocity separation between it and the fastball. I think he’s a reliever in the end because the delivery isn’t going to allow him to have average control, but if the slider improves — and the White Sox do have a history of that — he could prove me wrong.

Chase Meidroth walked 105 times in Triple A last year at age 22, just two years out of the draft, with a super-short swing geared towards contact (he struck out just 12.7 percent of the time last year) but that generates no power. He didn’t hit a ball over 108.1 mph last year and his Barrel rate was 2.2 percent. He’s played all three infield spots and could be a good utility infielder thanks to his on-base skills, lacking the power or impact to be a regular unless he becomes a plus defender at short.

https://www.nytimes.com/athletic/5987499/2024/12/11/red-sox-white-sox-garrett-crochet/

Edited December 11 by DirtySox

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

?

Thorpe’s fastball was worse than expected and extremely hittable.  Scary low strikeout rate.  And then injury, which is the least of the concerns.

Samuel Zavala hit like Seby in High-A.

Iriarte had a good season in AA but his walks are a red flag and he carried them into the majors in his brief time there.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Thorpe’s fastball was worse than expected and extremely hittable.  Scary low strikeout rate.  And then injury, which is the least of the concerns.

Samuel Zavala hit like Seby in High-A.

Iriarte had a good season in AA but his walks are a red flag and he carried them into the majors in his brief time there.

Development isn't linear and Zavala is 20 years old. Iriarte will be a big leaguer in some capacity, barring injury. It's way too early to judge either of those guys.

Thorpe stinks.

[almagest]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The Cease trade looked bad at the start, Thorpe was all right but the other two didn't look that great at the time. Zavala had a long way to go and a lot of things that could go wrong, and Iriarte seemed like a wild card. That trade looked much weaker than this one at the start, and that's not even considering that Thorpe might have gotten the "Yankee prospect boost".

Most of the chatter I recall was around the deal being a little light on the back end, not that it was a bad deal. This trade is better looking, true, but Cease likely got dinged because of his control issues and his down 2023, plus the Padres were seemingly the only team ready to actually trade for him. This time, we have Dombrowski and the Red Sox trying to compete with the Yankees.

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I think the last 3 years justifies being pissy and complaining, but you do you 👍

Why would anyone be pissy and complain about literally the worst season in MLB history?  Happens all of the time.  We will be in the playoffs in no time with all of this talent.

[fathom]

7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Development isn't linear and Zavala is 20 years old. Iriarte will be a big leaguer in some capacity, barring injury. It's way too early to judge either of those guys.

Thorpe stinks.

Agreed, but through one year, it looks like a bad trade.  Iriarte drastically needs to improve his control.

[greg775]

1 hour ago, bmags said:

yeah. One - it's position player heavy. To do that, we didn't get the top 30 guys we'd hoped (though probably could have in more of a one-for-one way). I'd say this is the 'fan' market, but doesn't mean they scouted well here. I hope so.

I was talking myself 100% into brewers deal, but this is a good amount of quality here. Not the biggest Braden montgomery guy, but do like that he has the same last name as Colson. Wouldn't mind exploring getting all montgomerys.

Sox need position players so they get some here. Considering they were drafted by Boston instead of our Sox there's hope they are decent. I have no reaction to the trade except position players are more valuable than pitchers nowadays in the era of five innings max. Woulda been nice if Montgomery was ready earlier than 2026 cause then the Sox could have 3 new players in the lineup from Boston relatively quickly. Three new Red Sox instead of White Sox in the White Sox lineup sounds good. I don't really care about losing Crochet cause I'm thinking five inning pitchers who can do a decent job in the future won't be that hard to come by. ... I do have to LOL at the team that Sox will put on the field in 2025 though. I also have to laugh at the 'rebuild fanatics' -- I won't say tank lovers cause some of these players are close to being in the everyday lineup -- getting satisfied. Whatever.

Edited December 11 by greg775

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Development isn't linear and Zavala is 20 years old. Iriarte will be a big leaguer in some capacity, barring injury. It's way too early to judge either of those guys.

Thorpe stinks.

You're right, development isn't linear. But how many guys with Zavala's profile are going to never even make AAA? It's a majority right? That alone makes it a weak return for a guy like Cease, having so many steps that he has to go through where things could go wrong. 

[SoCalChiSox]

Keith Law seems to like the trade for Chicago ALOT in his Athletic article.

Summary of key points:

If ankle injury has no lasting effects, Law believes Montgomery with all star upside. Ranked No. 4 on his draft big board. Extremely hard consistent contact, switch hitter that is more productive from left side. Some scouts question if he can hit RH but he thinks he can.  70 arm in RF with above average defense. 

Teel...above average regular or a little better, strong reciever with plus arm and moves very well behind the plate, bat is well above norm for position. 

Gonzalez likely a reliever because delivery will prevent him from having average control but if slider improves and he notes White Sox have a history of that, he could prove Law wrong.

Meidroth is a good utility infielder due to OBP but lack of power or impact prevents being a regular unless he becomes plus defender at SS.

 

[BamaDoc]

I kinda had my heart set on Roman Anthony.  Wonder could we have got him if no Teel and Montgomery.  Which would you rather have the one player or two?

[reiks12]

How does Thorpe stink? Before he got hurt he was highly effective. He was pitching with a hurt arm in his last 2 starts

[Chicago White Sox]

42 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Again, an example how people now state as fact that the Sox lost the Cease trade, and the question is very much up in the air (again, I think the Sox won that trade). But the complainers have to misrepresent so that they can justify being pissy and complaining. No poster more than this one. 

You’re literally ripping people for saying we lost the trade because it’s too early and then saying we won the trade.  Don’t think you can have it both ways.

[DirtySox]

5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

Keith Law seems to like the trade for Chicago ALOT in his Athletic article.

Summary of key points:

If ankle injury has no lasting effects, Law believes Montgomery with all star upside. Ranked No. 4 on his draft big board. Extremely hard consistent contact, switch hitter that is more productive from left side. Some scouts question if he can hit RH but he thinks he can.  70 arm in RF with above average defense. 

Teel...above average regular or a little better, strong reciever with plus arm and moves very well behind the plate, bat is well above norm for position. 

Gonzalez likely a reliever because delivery will prevent him from having average control but if slider improves and he notes White Sox have a history of that, he could prove Law wrong.

Meidroth is a good utility infielder due to OBP but lack of power or impact prevents being a regular unless he becomes plus defender at SS.

 

It's posted above.

[Kyyle23]

16 minutes ago, almagest said:

You can be skeptical, and I think we all are, but that's a lot different than declaring the trade a failure already.

Also, if you're assuming failure on prospect development in general, then the Crochet trade is a failure already.

I’m not declaring the trade anything.  I just don’t think criticizing a hot take fail/pass makes a difference right now.  This organization has to earn the trust so those takes go away. 

[steveno89]

5 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I kinda had my heart set on Roman Anthony.  Wonder could we have got him if no Teel and Montgomery.  Which would you rather have the one player or two?

Boston pretty clearly was unwilling to trade Anthony or Campbell, the two best prospects in their system by quite a bit. 

Mayer has nice upside, but injury concerns had to cause concern for the White Sox. I doubt Boston would have been willing to include Mayer and Montgomery in the deal as well. 

[fathom]

6 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I kinda had my heart set on Roman Anthony.  Wonder could we have got him if no Teel and Montgomery.  Which would you rather have the one player or two?

Not available 

[Nardiwashere]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re literally ripping people for saying we lost the trade because it’s too early and then saying we won the trade.  Don’t think you can have it both ways.

I think the distinction is he is saying its too early to say we lost the trade as if it were fact.  To support that claim, he says he personally believes they won.  

If a reasonable person can argue they won the trade, its not a fact that the sox lost the trade.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Baron said:

Chris Getz played this about as well as possible. Not sure he was getting anything close to this package at the trade deadline. 

Great point. I basically got my wish that Boston would view him as the next sale and that Crochet had to be the haul we all wanted. This is a haul.  3 position prospects, one a highly talented switch hitting OF with a great arm high upside .All 3 position players are good OBP guys. The pitcher is high risk high reward arm who seemed to strive in 2023 once he was told to concentrate on his between starts work rather than how he did when pitching. Definitely a guy getting in his own head about his future but also talented. Unfortunately he regressed in 2024 but that's probably why he was available as the 4th piece. He'll need to show something this year under Banister's tutelage.

[caulfield12]

Gonzalez' father was a "stumpy" catcher back in the mid 90s on the Augusta GreenJackets...had one of the oddest bodies I had ever seen in baseball but it somehow all fit for a catcher Really struggled at times in 2024 such that on multiple occasions, the organization had him throw shorter outings in a piggyback or true relief role as part of his development plan. Summation: Potential up-and-down swingman. Ceiling of a leverage reliever. Still has a wide variance of outcomes; will show four pitches, including a fastball and curveball that stand out, but delivery and command are more like that of a reliever. Still has a long way to go developmentally and must significantly improve command and control to reach his ceiling. Needs to throw more strikes and be more efficient with his pitches to last deeper into games. Does not have the typical size you look for in a starter. Has simplified his delivery over the course of his career, which should make it easier for him to keep his arm in sync with the rest of his body, but still has considerable effort in his delivery. If command does not improve, that, along with his size and delivery, could push him to a short relief bullpen role, but with his stuff, he could thrive in such a role or even in a multi-inning role. Struggled out for the first few months of 2024, before improving as the season went along.   https://soxprospects.com/players/gonzalez-wikelman.htm

Edited December 11 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, BamaDoc said:

I kinda had my heart set on Roman Anthony.  Wonder could we have got him if no Teel and Montgomery.  Which would you rather have the one player or two?

5+ years ago maybe.  Teams aren’t trading their top guys these days.  So I would say no to your question.  The Red Sox would rather have Anthony than Teel and Montgomery.  Maybe that changes in a year or two once Montgomery puts up some at bats and Teel is a productive offensive and defensive catcher in the big leagues.

Edited December 11 by WhiteSox2023

[almagest]

5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

I’m not declaring the trade anything.  I just don’t think criticizing a hot take fail/pass makes a difference right now.  This organization has to earn the trust so those takes go away. 

I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing back on an opinion, especially when it's presented as a fact.

[Texsox]

You could say Getz went elbow to ankle with this trade. I'd rather worry about a surgically repaired ankle on a position player than a pitcher's arm. 

I guess lots of physicals to be completed before it's really official. 

We'll never know but this seems better than that might have been expected at the trade deadline. 

[Kyyle23]

3 minutes ago, almagest said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with pushing back on an opinion, especially when it's presented as a fact.

👍 like I said, you do you.  I will continue to watch this rebuild-not-rebuild from my skeptical seat over here 

[WestEddy]

40 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Almost everything went to crap with the return in that deal.  Not sure how that can be denied.  Sure, there’s still time for them to improve.  However, Cease turned back into an ace with the Padres and I wouldn’t be surprised if they could get a better return for Cease right now than Getz did.

The consensus seems to be that the return for this Crochet trade is positive.  That was definitely not the consensus belief for the Cease trade.

But if you want to go ahead and ignore all of this and stay in your happy place, be my guest.

Cease is a solid pitcher. Ace? You're grasping. 

The return for Cease was fine. Some called it a little light, but the timing probably had more to do with that.