Crochet Traded to Boston

[Quin]

20 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

True but it means something.  I'd rather have more than less. 

Oh, most definitely. It creates value, gets fans excited, etc.

But, let's be honest, we are the fans that add the "-atic" to complete the word. We've seen the song and dance: Colas was a Top 100, Ramos was either knocking on the door or Top 100 (Fangraphs and I think Law's), Nastrini was a just missed.

I just can't get jazzed about it or pound the table this go around. Otherwise we look like those O's fans that came here last summer.

[almagest]

6 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

👍 like I said, you do you.  I will continue to watch this rebuild-not-rebuild from my skeptical seat over here 

I'm also skeptical, as I'm sure everyone here is. I'm just not declaring failures on trades within the last year yet.

[Lip Man 1]

For what it is worth I just got off the phone with a member of the organization. This person, who I trust, was directly speaking with the scouts who were involved in the deal.

According to the scout the Sox "did well" in the trade and acquired two guys they think will be good hitters.

As far as the catching situation they like Lee's defense but his bat is still a concern. Possibly he'll be moved to another position or included in a trade.

Person also thinks Robert will be traded. 

[southsider2k5]

Here's my nerves on this deal.  Getting another catcher isn't a horrible thing, but we also can't afford for Teel to be much less than a pretty good every day catcher.  If he is, then the need for him to be a 30 homer guy increases a lot if he moves off of catcher to a place like 1B or DH.

The one that really worries me is Montgomery.  I love his profile, but the ankle injury really scares me.  Maybe is Robin Ventura trauma but if he loses anything in the ankle, the rest of the pieces of what makes him a top prospect suffer.  He's not going to have as much range in the OF, he's not going to have nearly as much power in the box, and he could even suffer on his throwing if it limits his flexibility. 

The last two guys have the types of profiles you would have expected as 3rd and 4th pieces in a deal like this.  Would have been nice to get a crazy wild card Latin signing as one of those types last pieces, but you can at least squint and see something if everything goes right.  The bottom line is the Sox have to get two six to ten year starters out of Teel and Monty, and hopefully get a piece out of the other two.

[caulfield12]

Funny that Getz "drafted" another version of Madrigal back to the White Sox with this trade...hopefully more Pedroia than Chris Getz.

 

Wiki's father had a great throwing arm, that much really sticks out.

"In a seven-season career, González's (father, the catcher) posted a .238 batting average with 17 home runs and 103 RBI, including 75 runs, 41 doubles, three triples, and three stolen bases in 283 games played.

His most productive season came in 2001 with San Diego, when he batted a .275/.335/.463 slash line with eight homers and 27 RBI.

A slow runner, González holds the curious distinction of having hit into a 5-4-3 triple play in 2002 while playing for the Padres, during a game against the New York Mets just on his birthday."

wiki

[T R U]

2 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

For what it is worth I just got off the phone with a member of the organization. This person, who I trust, was directly speaking with the scouts who were involved in the deal.

According to the scout the Sox "did well" in the trade and acquired two guys they think will be good hitters.

As far as the catching situation they like Lee's defense but his bat is still a concern. Possibly he'll be moved to another position or included in a trade.

Person also thinks Robert will be traded. 

Robert has to be traded, this roster has now been stripped down to the studs (or duds if you will) with the exception of Robert. You never hold on to him for the next painful 2-3 years. He has to go.

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, T R U said:

Robert has to be traded, this roster has now been stripped down to the studs (or duds if you will) with the exception of Robert. You never hold on to him for the next painful 2-3 years. He has to go.

You have to get decent value for him, but has no purpose on this roster.  I will say I wouldn't give him away either, if we have to to spring training with him because the offers suck, cool. 

[DirtySox]

 

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Cease is a solid pitcher. Ace? You're grasping. 

The return for Cease was fine. Some called it a little light, but the timing probably had more to do with that. 

He was on the All-MLB Second Team, which would make him #6-10. That's the definition of an ace.

The Cease return doesn't look hot right now. A soft-throwing righty that got injured, a flamethrower that can't locate and a young guy that can't hit (but can draw a walk). Wilson was flat out bad. Now, Thorpe could come back stronger since he doesn't rely on speed, Iriarte might start finding the strike zone, and Zavala could start hitting as he becomes more age appropriate for his level. Right now? It's bad.

I'm gonna give Getz huge props this time around because it looks like he actually learned from last year and got a great package for Crochet.

[caulfield12]

https://www.baseballamerica.com/stories/garrett-crochet-trade-red-sox-close-to-landing-white-sox-star/

In case it hasn't yet been posted...just woke up, it's 538 am here.

[Quin]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Funny that Getz "drafted" another version of Madrigal back to the White Sox with this trade...hopefully more Pedroia than Chris Getz.

 

Wiki's father had a great throwing arm, that much really sticks out.

"In a seven-season career, González's (father, the catcher) posted a .238 batting average with 17 home runs and 103 RBI, including 75 runs, 41 doubles, three triples, and three stolen bases in 283 games played.

His most productive season came in 2001 with San Diego, when he batted a .275/.335/.463 slash line with eight homers and 27 RBI.

A slow runner, González holds the curious distinction of having hit into a 5-4-3 triple play in 2002 while playing for the Padres, during a game against the New York Mets just on his birthday."

wiki

Considering we were just talking about the Sox being terrible with the kids of major leaguers: f***

[WhiteSox2023]

9 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

For what it is worth I just got off the phone with a member of the organization. This person, who I trust, was directly speaking with the scouts who were involved in the deal.

According to the scout the Sox "did well" in the trade and acquired two guys they think will be good hitters.

As far as the catching situation they like Lee's defense but his bat is still a concern. Possibly he'll be moved to another position or included in a trade.

Person also thinks Robert will be traded. 

I would guess Lee sticks around as a catcher on the roster until he is replaced by Teel / Quero.  I don’t understand moving him from catcher.  If his bat is a concern, where else would you want him to play?  1B/DH?  That wouldn’t make sense.  His one good attribute is his throwing arm.  He has some pop but he doesn’t make enough contact.  He’s a backup catcher without much value that we are probably spending too much time talking about.

[T R U]

6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You have to get decent value for him, but has no purpose on this roster.  I will say I wouldn't give him away either, if we have to to spring training with him because the offers suck, cool. 

Definitely, I would say he needs to be gone by the 2025 deadline. If there is nothing good offered now, roll the dice and hope he performs the first half to build that value back.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, SoxAce said:

Ah yes a LHP in his prime traded to the Red Sox for lottery tickets. What can possibly go wrong? 😂 Best of luck to Crochet. Like Sale, I love Reinsdorf lead organization trading away HOF projected talents because we can't either afford them or build around them to win.

Yeah it sucks but if somehow Getz can turn the Sox into the Tampa Bay of their division they'll be a lot more competitive on a year to year basis.

That's a huge ask though. Most teams with no money don't have the type of succcess TB has had and the Sox are the last team I'd expect to actually build  high level scouting and development systems both domestically and internationally especially while Reinsdorf is still the owner.

Welcome to the new reality.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Quin said:

He was on the All-MLB Second Team, which would make him #6-10. That's the definition of an ace.

The Cease return doesn't look hot right now. A soft-throwing righty that got injured, a flamethrower that can't locate and a young guy that can't hit (but can draw a walk). Wilson was flat out bad. Now, Thorpe could come back stronger since he doesn't rely on speed, Iriarte might start finding the strike zone, and Zavala could start hitting as he becomes more age appropriate for his level. Right now? It's bad.

I'm gonna give Getz huge props this time around because it looks like he actually learned from last year and got a great package for Crochet.

Lots of recency bias here too.

Had a great run in season to get him into Cy contention, but massive playoff disappointment.  Had he pitched to his potential, LAD would be staying again at home this offseason after yet another early exit.

[Quin]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Lots of recency bias here too.

Had a great run in season to get him into Cy contention, but massive playoff disappointment.  Had he pitched to his potential, LAD would be staying again at home this offseason after yet another early exit.

Clayton Kershaw: Not an ace.

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Lots of recency bias here too.

Had a great run in season to get him into Cy contention, but massive playoff disappointment.  Had he pitched to his potential, LAD would be staying again at home this offseason after yet another early exit.

Recency bias?  5 bad postseason innings doesn’t take away from Cease being an ace during the 2024 regular season in 190 innings.

[reiks12]

Ill go on record to say i feel luke warm with the return, hoping we get 2 solid mlb pieces in the coming years with this but im skeptical 

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I would guess Lee sticks around as a catcher on the roster until he is replaced by Teel / Quero.  I don’t understand moving him from catcher.  If his bat is a concern, where else would you want him to play?  1B/DH?  That wouldn’t make sense.  His one good attribute is his throwing arm.  He has some pop but he doesn’t make enough contact.  He’s a backup catcher without much value that we are probably spending too much time talking about.

If Lee hits well enough to hang on a big league roster next year, backup catchers are always in need at the trade deadline, you’d at least get something, some minor league pitcher for him.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Jake said:

Turning a pitcher with only two years of control, only one productive season, and a significant injury history into these prospects is very good for the White Sox IMO.

Yep anyone not happy with this trade is picking nits.

They needed this kind of return and they got it.

Now let's see how these new coaches they brought in can do along with Bannister to develop the players and ge pipeline of talent incoming.

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's my nerves on this deal.  Getting another catcher isn't a horrible thing, but we also can't afford for Teel to be much less than a pretty good every day catcher.  If he is, then the need for him to be a 30 homer guy increases a lot if he moves off of catcher to a place like 1B or DH.

The one that really worries me is Montgomery.  I love his profile, but the ankle injury really scares me.  Maybe is Robin Ventura trauma but if he loses anything in the ankle, the rest of the pieces of what makes him a top prospect suffer.  He's not going to have as much range in the OF, he's not going to have nearly as much power in the box, and he could even suffer on his throwing if it limits his flexibility. 

The last two guys have the types of profiles you would have expected as 3rd and 4th pieces in a deal like this.  Would have been nice to get a crazy wild card Latin signing as one of those types last pieces, but you can at least squint and see something if everything goes right.  The bottom line is the Sox have to get two six to ten year starters out of Teel and Monty, and hopefully get a piece out of the other two.

To me, the first name that immediately popped into mind was our former 1st round draft pick LSU football WR / College World Series winner Jared Mitchell.

 

https://fanbuzz.com/college-football/sec/lsu/jared-mitchell-now/#:~:text=Videos by Fanbuzz

Edited December 11 by caulfield12

[Balta1701]

21 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Here's my nerves on this deal.  Getting another catcher isn't a horrible thing, but we also can't afford for Teel to be much less than a pretty good every day catcher.  If he is, then the need for him to be a 30 homer guy increases a lot if he moves off of catcher to a place like 1B or DH.

The one that really worries me is Montgomery.  I love his profile, but the ankle injury really scares me.  Maybe is Robin Ventura trauma but if he loses anything in the ankle, the rest of the pieces of what makes him a top prospect suffer.  He's not going to have as much range in the OF, he's not going to have nearly as much power in the box, and he could even suffer on his throwing if it limits his flexibility. 

The last two guys have the types of profiles you would have expected as 3rd and 4th pieces in a deal like this.  Would have been nice to get a crazy wild card Latin signing as one of those types last pieces, but you can at least squint and see something if everything goes right.  The bottom line is the Sox have to get two six to ten year starters out of Teel and Monty, and hopefully get a piece out of the other two.

A couple replies.

First, although Quero is listed as a switch hitter, his OPS in the minors against lefties is like 300 points higher than his OPS against righties. So on paper, this actually sets up a decent catching platoon, and you could play around with the DH and pinch hitting a lot to make matchups work if you’re willing to risk losing your backup catchers.

Second, I will grant you Montgomery is a risk. I’m not sure he’d be as available without the injury, so there’s a risk reward here, but yes we are hanging a lot on the White Sox’s ability to evaluate injuries having improved. We can leave this open until the season starts, as an early IL stint or a lot of struggles could be a real red flag in an organization where other prospects with the same last name may also be having unacknowledged physical issues.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, steveno89 said:

I am still digesting this trade.

Of Boston's top four prospects for the White Sox, Teel is the worst fit. Catching prospects are really difficult to hit and get value on, plus the fit with Quero seems awkward. 

Montgomery has pop and a big arm, but is coming off an ankle injury and is several years away from the majors. Lengthy development path ahead, with hit tool questions that need to be answered. 

Mediroth can hit and looks like a future utility player at the MLB level

Gonzalez is most likely a reliever, but Sox can continue to develop him as a potential starter.

 

I'm sure this was intentional, but it is noteworthy to me what the Red Sox did not trade. They kept their three up the middle top prospects (Anthony/Campbell/Mayer), as well as their toolsy teenage prospects who could be worth even more in a year (Arias, Cespedes, Bleis)

This may have been the best that Getz was offered, but I really wish the Sox would have focused on up the middle talent as the return. 

Sure it's not perfect .But in the position player prospects hugging environment we've witnessed lately and starting from rock bottom I'll still like a package that is both quality and quantity.

[Timmy U]

Love this trade. Teel is a good athlete who could play multiple positions. I am a huge Quero fan and I am not worried about finding at bats for both moving forward. Montgomery is a risk, but that’s the only reason he’s available. The other players both have a decent of being mlb contributors. I can imagine better, I suppose, but it could be much much worse. Let’s see how it turns out.

[fathom]

I thought all reports were that Montgomery’s injury was not nearly as complex as that of Ventura’s or Mitchell’s.