Crochet Traded to Boston

[baseball_gal_aly]

Hello all, been a while. Can someone tell me something about the guys the Sox got in the trade with Boston that aren't B. Mongomery and Teel? 

I haven't been paying attn to the Sox much. 

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

Hello all, been a while. Can someone tell me something about the guys the Sox got in the trade with Boston that aren't B. Mongomery and Teel? 

I haven't been paying attn to the Sox much. 

Meidroth is an IF (2B, mostly) who walks, has great contact rates, but not a lot of power. Wikelman Gonzalez can't seem to consistently throw strikes over long periods. Only Gonzalez is on the 40-man, so he could be looking at a bullpen spot. 

Fangraphs breakdown of the trade:

https://blogs.fangraphs.com/kyle-teel-headlines-solid-return-package-for-white-sox-in-garrett-crochet-trade/

[oldsox]

Trade difficult to assess.

Montgomery needs to play a full season.

Teel looks legitimate.

Meidroth is valuable only if he is better than Sosa, which no none knows.

Gonzalez has not shown that he belongs in MLB.

Crochet, if healthy, figures to win a lot of games for Boston and prob lead the league in K's in 2025. My prediction is that the only way this trade works is if Montgomery blossoms into a legitimate starting outfielder.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

Future Sox just posted this on Wikelman Gonzalez.  He really reminds me of Cease with how hard he throws and the way he follows through by kicking his right leg towards 1st base.

 

Edited January 3 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[zisk]

On 12/19/2024 at 7:09 PM, baseball_gal_aly said:

Hello all, been a while. Can someone tell me something about the guys the Sox got in the trade with Boston that aren't B. Mongomery and Teel? 

I haven't been paying attn to the Sox much. 

that makes you the smartest poster on Soxtalk by a mile.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 12/11/2024 at 2:00 PM, fathom said:

I thought all reports were that Montgomery’s injury was not nearly as complex as that of Ventura’s or Mitchell’s.

Maybe as an athlete you severely sprained your ankle .I know did. I had doctor's tell me you're better off breaking it. I think what they mean by that is you're better off breaking it if it's a clean break that doesn't involve ligament damage . Severe sprains always involve ligament damage which may make the ankle more susceptible to respraining .That was the kind of break Montgomery had ( clean no ligament damage). He'll be fine as long as he had a normal healing process and there's no reason to think he hasn't.

[WhiteSox2023]

“Giants Declined To Include Bryce Eldridge In Tucker/Crochet Trade Offers”

San Francisco “made legitimate offers” for both Tucker and Crochet, Baggarly writes, “to the point that [the Giants] were said to feel a bit uncomfortable with the players they were willing to sacrifice.”  However, neither offer included top prospect Bryce Eldridge, and thus no trades materialized since the Astros and Sox each viewed Eldridge’s inclusion as “a prerequisite.”

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“Giants Declined To Include Bryce Eldridge In Tucker/Crochet Trade Offers”

 

Prospect hugging is a thing. No doubt about it. A trade for you top of rotation starter or superstar OF should hurt although Tucker was just one year so not as much.

Even Boston really didn't feel any pain because they kept their 3 best prospects .

Of course fans want to keep them all. We cry over an 8 th round RP being traded because of the process even though we know the trade was likely insignificant .

[Balta1701]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Prospect hugging is a thing. No doubt about it. A trade for you top of rotation starter or superstar OF should hurt although Tucker was just one year so not as much.

Even Boston really didn't feel any pain because they kept their 3 best prospects .

Of course fans want to keep them all. We cry over an 8 th round RP being traded because of the process even though we know the trade was likely insignificant .

Is San Francisco in a place where they are one player away from a title this year? If not, it’s plain dumb for them to give up multi year assets for Crochet or Tucker. That’s literally the logic of Hahn’s worst trades - disparage it all you want but hugging Semien, Tatis, and Bassitt was a helluva lot smarter than all in moves on 75 win teams.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Prospect hugging is a thing. No doubt about it. A trade for you top of rotation starter or superstar OF should hurt although Tucker was just one year so not as much.

Even Boston really didn't feel any pain because they kept their 3 best prospects .

Of course fans want to keep them all. We cry over an 8 th round RP being traded because of the process even though we know the trade was likely insignificant .

Well, that’s the Orioles more than the Giants.  What GM thinks it’s wiser to throw $50 million at a LF when you have a full outfield already, $9 million at a backup catcher/DH when you have a decent enough backup catcher, and at the same time throw out two cheap one year contracts at your true position of need, starting pitching?  One guy being a complete unknown with the other guy being over 40?

Edited January 5 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Well, that’s the Orioles more than the Giants.  What GM thinks it’s wiser to throw $50 million at a LF when you have a full outfield already, $9 million at a backup catcher/DH when you have a decent enough backup catcher, and at the same time throw out two cheap one year contracts at your true position of need, starting pitching?  One guy being a complete unknown with the other guy being over 40?

That's simply showing a lot of faith in a veteran professional hitter rather than assuming that youngsters Cowser and Kjerstad can both carry the load in the outfield...and rebalancing the lineup a bit.

Still surprised they're holding onto both Mayo and Basallo.

[Y2Jimmy0]

10 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Is San Francisco in a place where they are one player away from a title this year? If not, it’s plain dumb for them to give up multi year assets for Crochet or Tucker. That’s literally the logic of Hahn’s worst trades - disparage it all you want but hugging Semien, Tatis, and Bassitt was a helluva lot smarter than all in moves on 75 win teams.

I know that most fans always want their team to go for it but San Francisco has hurt themselves in free agency. They keep signing players with QO atatched to short-term deals and forfeiting 2nd round picks. They have a smaller bonus pool every year and now their system isn't very good. 

[caulfield12]

11 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I know that most fans always want their team to go for it but San Francisco has hurt themselves in free agency. They keep signing players with QO atatched to short-term deals and forfeiting 2nd round picks. They have a smaller bonus pool every year and now their system isn't very good. 

Only Judge last year arguably moves them to that top tier...but they ended up with Chapman and an often injured KBO CFer who still cost a pretty penny.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 1/4/2025 at 6:59 PM, Balta1701 said:

Is San Francisco in a place where they are one player away from a title this year? If not, it’s plain dumb for them to give up multi year assets for Crochet or Tucker. That’s literally the logic of Hahn’s worst trades - disparage it all you want but hugging Semien, Tatis, and Bassitt was a helluva lot smarter than all in moves on 75 win teams.

My comment was not so much or really at all about the Giants. It was more about what we've been seeing in MLB even at the TDL where 1 or 2 rentals for the rest of the year or a piece like Fedde for 2 playoffs is greeted with I'll give you my crap. There's one reason and one reason only that the Crochet deal was better than the Cease deal so I don't know why people keep comparing them .Cease had a down year and Crochet had a great breakout year. It's more and more about what have you done in your last year. Pitchers, catchers, 1st baseman is all what some of these teams seem willing to part with .

Cleveland and TB seem to make it work with pitching.

Right now that's the only way for the Sox just to get back to .500 .That's why pitching decisions are crucial and getting guys with multiple options left so you can bounce guys up and down all year long among the many who have a shot this year. The older guys already on the 40 with less options get the 1st crack at it.

Whether we like it or not Getz is still seeing if he can acquire some assets dumpster diving pitching and turn them over.

It's not much better than it was last year. You're down to Robert , Vaughn and Benintendi among  the position players ,with Robert being the only one who could bring you a decent position player prospect if etc etc.

I think Getz isn't in "just play the kids" mode quite yet with the pitching staff unless they are on the 40 already. He's trying to see if Bannister can get something from Shane Smith, Marinaccio, Bryse Wilson, Steve Wilson,Justin Anderson, Cam Booser, Tyler Gilbert, Fraser Ellard, Gus Varland . That's 8 guys right there .Maybe Shane Smith Starts  ? There's  Shuster, Penn Murfee, Jesse Scholtens,( if he's healthy , Berroa, Jordan Leasure.

Then there's the AAA starters on the 40, Nastrini,Eder, Ky Bush,Iriarte and maybe AA guys Juan Carela and Wikelman Gonzalez. There's 24 pitchers on the 40 . The only ones I haven't mention are 4 of the likely starting pitchers.

There's also not on the 40 ,26 yr. old Trey McGough who pitched well in Charlotte and Richmond who was the pitcher the Sox got from the  O's for Eloy.

Other arms not on the 40 among  RP who had good seasons in AA or AAA , Addison Coffey, Garrett Schonele, Peyton Pallette and AHT ( Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa ) who was the pitcher from the Grossman trade. 

That's a hell of a lot of potential arms for 2025. That's also without Schultz or Hagen Smith .

Edited January 6 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

My comment was not so much or really at all about the Giants. It was more about what we've been seeing in MLB even at the TDL where 1 or 2 rentals for the rest of the year or a piece like Fedde for 2 playoffs is greeted with I'll give you my crap. There's one reason and one reason only that the Crochet deal was better than the Cease deal so I don't know why people keep comparing them .Cease had a down year and Crochet had a great breakout year. It's more and more about what have you done in your last year. Pitchers, catchers, 1st baseman is all what some of these teams seem willing to part with .

Cleveland and TB seem to make it work with pitching.

Right now that's the only way for the Sox just to get back to .500 .That's why pitching decisions are crucial and getting guys with multiple options left so you can bounce guys up and down all year long among the many who have a shot this year. The older guys already on the 40 with less options get the 1st crack at it.

Whether we like it or not Getz is still seeing if he can acquire some assets dumpster diving pitching and turn them over.

It's not much better than it was last year. You're down to Robert , Vaughn and Benintendi among  the position players ,with Robert being the only one who could bring you a decent position player prospect if etc etc.

I think Getz isn't in "just play the kids" mode quite yet with the pitching staff unless they are on the 40 already. He's trying to see if Bannister can get something from Shane Smith, Marinaccio, Bryse Wilson, Steve Wilson,Justin Anderson, Cam Booser, Tyler Gilbert, Fraser Ellard, Gus Varland . That's 8 guys right there .Maybe Shane Smith Starts  ? There's  Shuster, Penn Murfee, Jesse Scholtens,( if he's healthy , Berroa, Jordan Leasure.

Then there's the AAA starters on the 40, Nastrini,Eder, Ky Bush,Iriarte and maybe AA guys Juan Carela and Wikelman Gonzalez. There's 24 pitchers on the 40 . The only ones I haven't mention are 4 of the likely starting pitchers.

There's also not on the 40 ,26 yr. old Trey McGough who pitched well in Charlotte and Richmond who was the pitcher the Sox got from the  O's for Eloy.

Other arms not on the 40 among  RP who had good seasons in AA or AAA , Addison Coffey, Garrett Schonele, Peyton Pallette and AHT ( Anthony Hoopii-Tuionetoa ) who was the pitcher from the Grossman trade. 

That's a hell of a lot of potential arms for 2025. That's also without Schultz or Hagen Smith .

That all sounds great...but I would still rather have Gio Lopez Dunning Cease and Kopech as a starting point than that entire list.

No matter how you slice it, you're still relying on Smith Schultz and Taylor to carry 75-80% of the load if you want a truly outstanding starting staff from a pure stuff standpoint.

At least 1 of those 3 will not make it and the other one will likely get injured.  That's just how topline pitching goes these days.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

20 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

That all sounds great...but I would still rather have Gio Lopez Dunning Cease and Kopech as a starting point than that entire list.

No matter how you slice it, you're still relying on Smith Schultz and Taylor to carry 75-80% of the load if you want a truly outstanding starting staff from a pure stuff standpoint.

At least 1 of those 3 will not make it and the other one will likely get injured.  That's just how topline pitching goes these days.

I never said the starting staff wasn't going to have Hagen Smith or Schultz at the top of the rotation did I ?

All I said is that there's a lot of arms and decent arms to choose from for the BP.

I have no idea why you mention pitchers we no longer have. That's ancient history right now.

I wasn't even talking about the starting staff , just the BP. It's like you were responding to a different post.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I never said the starting staff wasn't going to have Hagen Smith or Schultz at the top of the rotation did I ?

All I said is that there's a lot of arms and decent arms to choose from for the BP.

I have no idea why you mention pitchers we no longer have. That's ancient history right now.

I wasn't even talking about the starting staff , just the BP. It's like you were responding to a different post.

Well, you've listed about 30-40 pitchers in the last few days.

Remember last year when everyone thought Leasure was the guy to secure the closer's role?

Yes, the assumption for the future rotation was already "baked in" with Schultz/Smith/Mr. 90-91 MPH FB/Cannon/Burke/Taylor and whoever else you want to throw into the mix, but the point was that they're still below where they stood in 2018 or 2019 in terms of overall pitching talent (not to mention a lot of money was soon to be invested in the bullpen, which is much less likely to happen this time around, it's going to have to be produced internally, for the most part.)

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, you've listed about 30-40 pitchers in the last few days.

Remember last year when everyone thought Leasure was the guy to secure the closer's role?

Yes, the assumption for the future rotation was already "baked in" with Schultz/Smith/Mr. 90-91 MPH FB/Cannon/Burke/Taylor and whoever else you want to throw into the mix, but the point was that they're still below where they stood in 2018 or 2019 in terms of overall pitching talent (not to mention a lot of money was soon to be invested in the bullpen, which is much less likely to happen this time around, it's going to have to be produced internally, for the most part.)

Basically I just made that post to give anyone interested ( including me because I honestly always forget a few of them) seeing all the possible arms to choose from already for the 2025 BP. that's why I didn't mention Cannon, Thorpe, Burke and Martin and didn't mention Hagen Smith or Schultz until the end as other possible pieces that could get time in 2025 on the Sox.

Its just baby steps towards building  a better team going forward if you can build the bullpen better.

It's hard when you're working with a bunch of no names but thats what Getz got Bannister for since he wasn't getting any money from JR. It sucked last year and it'll suck this year. But they're trying to find a few keepers in the pen  and also flip a few. Don't expect miracles.

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Basically I just made that post to give anyone interested ( including me because I honestly always forget a few of them) seeing all the possible arms to choose from already for the 2025 BP. that's why I didn't mention Cannon, Thorpe, Burke and Martin and didn't mention Hagen Smith or Schultz until the end as other possible pieces that could get time in 2025 on the Sox.

Its just baby steps towards building  a better team going forward if you can build the bullpen better.

It's hard when you're working with a bunch of no names but thats what Getz got Bannister for since he wasn't getting any money from JR. It sucked last year and it'll suck this year. But they're trying to find a few keepers in the pen  and also flip a few. Don't expect miracles.

63-99 would be a miracle...but 50s for wins just feels a lot likelier with all the Central teams either standing pat or potentially improving.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

50 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

63-99 would be a miracle...but 50s for wins just feels a lot likelier with all the Central teams either standing pat or potentially improving.

Yes that would be a miracle for 2025. It might be for 2026 also. Lots of young arms as well as young bats would have to start doing well from the get go and fairly good health too. And some breakouts that were unexpected.

It won't come easy. You know it won't come easy.

[Timmy U]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Well, you've listed about 30-40 pitchers in the last few days.

Remember last year when everyone thought Leasure was the guy to secure the closer's role?

Yes, the assumption for the future rotation was already "baked in" with Schultz/Smith/Mr. 90-91 MPH FB/Cannon/Burke/Taylor and whoever else you want to throw into the mix, but the point was that they're still below where they stood in 2018 or 2019 in terms of overall pitching talent (not to mention a lot of money was soon to be invested in the bullpen, which is much less likely to happen this time around, it's going to have to be produced internally, for the most part.)

I disagree. When Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Lopez, and Dunning were traded for, the rest of the Sox pitching in the minors was pretty thin. The prospect pedigree on Giolito, Cease, and Kopech may be slightly > Schultz, Smith, and Taylor, but, by the time the Sox got them, both Giolito's and Cease's stock were down considerably. That's why they were available. Schultz is currently one of the top 3 pitching prospects in the minors (alongside Jobe and Painter). Smith is coming off one of the most dominant college seasons in history. Taylor may be more of a stretch, but having seen him pitch, I think he's a very bad man. After that, there's like 10 guys fighting for spots. John Ely says "don't sleep on Carela" and I personally love Batista. Even their super young guys like Larsen, Oppor, Reyes, LaCombe, etc have upside. I think the pitching depth in their system is waaaaaay better than it was 6/7 years ago.

[southsider2k5]

9 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

I disagree. When Giolito, Kopech, Cease, Lopez, and Dunning were traded for, the rest of the Sox pitching in the minors was pretty thin. The prospect pedigree on Giolito, Cease, and Kopech may be slightly > Schultz, Smith, and Taylor, but, by the time the Sox got them, both Giolito's and Cease's stock were down considerably. That's why they were available. Schultz is currently one of the top 3 pitching prospects in the minors (alongside Jobe and Painter). Smith is coming off one of the most dominant college seasons in history. Taylor may be more of a stretch, but having seen him pitch, I think he's a very bad man. After that, there's like 10 guys fighting for spots. John Ely says "don't sleep on Carela" and I personally love Batista. Even their super young guys like Larsen, Oppor, Reyes, LaCombe, etc have upside. I think the pitching depth in their system is waaaaaay better than it was 6/7 years ago.

Nah, everyone was making the same lists then too.

[Timmy U]

10 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Nah, everyone was making the same lists then too.

Nope. Just went through a Top 30 prospect list from back then and the only starters listed other than Kopech, Cease et al are Alec Hansen and Konnor Pilkington. I'll admit there was 1 year of Hansen hype, but Pilkington didn't rise to the level of even a Gowens, let alone Iriarte, Nastrini, Bush, Batista, etc etc etc.  Sox development may still suck, but they've got more depth than they did back then.

[almagest]

19 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Nope. Just went through a Top 30 prospect list from back then and the only starters listed other than Kopech, Cease et al are Alec Hansen and Konnor Pilkington. I'll admit there was 1 year of Hansen hype, but Pilkington didn't rise to the level of even a Gowens, let alone Iriarte, Nastrini, Bush, Batista, etc etc etc.  Sox development may still suck, but they've got more depth than they did back then.

Absolutely. The depth was terrible. Basically all their best prospects were from trades and their high first round picks. Almost nothing after that.

[southsider2k5]

32 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Nope. Just went through a Top 30 prospect list from back then and the only starters listed other than Kopech, Cease et al are Alec Hansen and Konnor Pilkington. I'll admit there was 1 year of Hansen hype, but Pilkington didn't rise to the level of even a Gowens, let alone Iriarte, Nastrini, Bush, Batista, etc etc etc.  Sox development may still suck, but they've got more depth than they did back then.

You can look at all of the lists you want in hindsight,  but I am here to tell you plenty of people at the time thought we had surplus pitching.   I would also bet money that five years from now we laugh at some of the names being included on these lists today