State of the farm system

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Why does it need to be cutting edge? Why can't somebody pounding some fundamentals into JR's skull be "cutting edge"? 

As Ray Ray mentioned, let's see evidence of some real "innovation" here at some point.

It's easy enough to copy other teams, and utilize the same equipment and even statistical analysis/models that they have created.

 

Where's the niche/competitive advantage going to come from?

Cubans?  Not anymore.

Keeping players healthier?  Not anymore.

So it has to be pitching (and left-handed pitching, specifically)...as it's certainly not positional prospect development, unless you just start counting all the players brought in from other organizations as "success."

 

The problem with that has always been that there was no cohesiveness with so many players coming in with training in numerous outside ways of doing things in their original organizations...but WHAT exactly is the "White Sox Way," so to speak?

Last year, it was supposed to be bringing in young players who weren't already "corrupted" by the big league clubhouse who would play winning baseball, defend, fundamentally-sound, ability to execute and play small ball due to the lack of big boppers in the line-up that could pound the opposition into submission, winning the close games due to starting pitching (obviously the bullpen was a MASSIVE weakness after tens of millions were previously invested into veteran bullpen guys).

 

 

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

As Ray Ray mentioned, let's see evidence of some real "innovation" here at some point.

It's easy enough to copy other teams, and utilize the same equipment and even statistical analysis/models that they have created.

 

Where's the niche/competitive advantage going to come from?

Cubans?  Not anymore.

Keeping players healthier?  Not anymore.

So it has to be pitching (and left-handed pitching, specifically)...as it's certainly not positional prospect development, unless you just start counting all the players brought in from other organizations as "success."

 

The problem with that has always been that there was no cohesiveness with so many players coming in with training in numerous outside ways of doing things in their original organizations...but WHAT exactly is the "White Sox Way," so to speak?

Last year, it was supposed to be bringing in young players who weren't already "corrupted" by the big league clubhouse who would play winning baseball, defend, fundamentally-sound, ability to execute and play small ball due to the lack of big boppers in the line-up that could pound the opposition into submission, winning the close games due to starting pitching (obviously the bullpen was a MASSIVE weakness after tens of millions were previously invested into veteran bullpen guys).

 

 

Somebody just wrote an article about how the next frontier is "empathy". The biggest advancement in college sports is sports psychology. Venable has a firm grasp on that concept. 

Seriously, stats analysis is tapped out. Sleep and nutrition adjustments are pretty finite.

[southsider2k5]

25 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

My post conveys my feeling that I'm tired of posting Getz's successes, because the top players who made the bigs developed themselves, whereas the ones who failed, failed because of Chris Getz. That doesn't make sense to me. That's why I argue. 

These guys forsook an advanced metrics department, took years to think about hitting and pitching labs. Housing, nutrition and sleep monitoring  were an afterthought. 

I'm really befuddled why everyone is expending so much energy to pin all of this in Chris Getz. Yes, he was part of the previous regime. No, he didn't quit. Sure, maybe he shrugged his shoulders and kept notes. 

I don't want all the perpetrators to burn in the fiery cauldrons of hell. If Getz is bringing in competent people to get s%*# in order, I'm all for it. I'm 61. I've got 20-25 more years of baseball fandom in me. I'm not going to spend it furious that the guy making good changes didn't earn his job. 

I am amazed someone would spent this much time trying to sanctify Chris Getz,  but here we are.

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I am amazed someone would spent this much time trying to sanctify Chris Getz,  but here we are.

My brain hurts when you guys are waterboarding logic like you do. That's why. 

[Lyle Moooton]

Jesus Christ you guys are at it in this thread too? Just bang each other already…this will they/wont they stuff is getting annoying.  

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, Lyle Moooton said:

Jesus Christ you guys are at it in this thread too? Just bang each other already…this will they/wont they stuff is getting annoying.  

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

How about this - the last time I thought player development did its job was in the 2000s. In the early half, the heart of a World Series team was developed in the White Sox system, and you had unexpected successes like Crede, who was a 5th round draft pick, or Brandon McCarthy from the 7th. You can't name a 5th round draft pick who became a success for the White Sox in the last 15 years, because around the time Hahn took over it just plain stopped happening. In the latter half, a rebuilt rotation including Danks and Floyd came up out of that system, at least partially. 

That isn't to say the White Sox didn't have talent in their system or get talented guys in later rounds. Despite giving a way a lot of draft picks and never spending their international funds, they managed to have guys like Semien and Tatis in their system who had tons upon tons of talent. The guys they had in their system actually out-performed their system rankings, by a lot. However, by 2014, under Hahn, when those guys were coming up, the system had reached a point where they couldn't recognize those guys were good or help those guys build anything. Marcus Semien was a 6th round pick in the White Sox's system, he's damn near been an MVP caliber player, but the White Sox's system pigeonholed him as a utility man. As soon as he went somewhere else, he struggled because he hadn't gotten quality coaching the entire way up, but after a year of work and a couple of years experience, bang here's a 7-WAR player. 

That story has continued to repeat itself. Normal teams get good players in rounds other than round 1. It's not every one, but guys come up and contribute. Occasionally you should still find a Spencer Strider. You can't name a contributor for the White Sox outside the first round probably since Hahn took over, and what did they wind up doing as a consequence? Overspending on utility guys, overspending on relievers - the guys you often can find in middle rounds.

I appreciate this answer mainly because you gave it a lot of thought and did research . You didn't just shoot from the hip.

I always wished I knew exactly how Tatis got traded . In my head it's like Hahn made the decision on his own but I keep thinking it doesn't or shouldn't happen that way .Like someone in player development should have been notified who strongly objected before the trade was completed or something Hahn could have seen in a scouting report that said highest upside of anyone we've ever signed internationally. I'm just not sure what Paddy actually thought about him or if he would have strongly objected. I also wonder with the retooling of the system and staffs  with the ex Seal in charge of making sure all departments are communicating and run efficiently if that could safeguard  getting rid of talented players who hadn't even played stateside yet or at least make it more collaborative.

Will have to see how things play out and it's still hard to judge when you just can't know what restrictions you're getting from Reinsdorf which is always a huge monkey wrench in anything related to the job of any GM or Director of Player Development or International signings.

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I appreciate this answer mainly because you gave it a lot of thought and did research . You didn't just shoot from the hip.

I always wished I knew exactly how Tatis got traded . In my head it's like Hahn made the decision on his own but I keep thinking it doesn't or shouldn't happen that way .Like someone in player development should have been notified who strongly objected before the trade was completed or something Hahn could have seen in a scouting report that said highest upside of anyone we've ever signed internationally. I'm just not sure what Paddy actually thought about him or if he would have strongly objected. I also wonder with the retooling of the system and staffs  with the ex Seal in charge of making sure all departments are communicating and run efficiently if that could safeguard  getting rid of talented players who hadn't even played stateside yet or at least make it more collaborative.

Will have to see how things play out and it's still hard to judge when you just can't know what restrictions you're getting from Reinsdorf which is always a huge monkey wrench in anything related to the job of any GM or Director of Player Development or International signings.

Tatis' father was the main one who warned the White Sox they were making a mistake and were going to regret it.

This was also during the time he had a 2+ inch growth spurt while also adding speed and athletic is my...although it can be argued I suppose that was related to PEDs or perhaps the Sox were just caught unawares with Preller having 5-6 Latin scouts all over him and later in Arizona.

Heck, Keith Law was also in the know there because he made a massive jump on the prospect lists and Law was the first to promote him as one of the top prospects in the game so quickly after his MiLB debut.

[WestEddy]

Nice article on the future of White Sox international scouting

https://soxmachine.com/2024/12/david-keller-talks-about-the-future-of-white-sox-international-amateur-scouting/