sin city sox fan Posted December 18 Share Posted December 18 That's an easy under. Might not win 30 in 2025. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jerry McNertney Posted December 18 Share Posted December 18 It's too early to estimate. We have the rest of winter and spring training to go before a more confident guess can be made. As things stand now, 50 wins seems reasonable. I might think very differently in three months or so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WBWSF Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 5 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said: Like I was told last week after the Crochet deal by a long time front office executive, "All Jerry wants now is to leave as much money as possible for his family and grand children." All you can do is hope to outlive him and hope for better days. The 2024 White Sox had the worst offense and bullpen in MLB. They have done nothing to improve these areas. This tells me they are content with this losing situation. We are probably witnessing the worst years in the teams modern history. Its absolutely shameful that this ownership doesn't care about putting a decent product on the field. You would think JR would have the decency to sell the team rather than just keep losing games year after year. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 5 hours ago, Quin said: On one hand, no Pedro. On the other hand: They'll need Venable to hit the ground running, several RoY contenders, and monstrous development from starters and relievers alike. And that's to get out of the basement. Who the hell are they going to pass, exactly? The Twins and Tigers are spending money, the Guardians are the champions and the Twins are the favorites via a number of projection systems. They'd be lucky to be within 10-15 games of 4th place, at least where things stand currently. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paulie4Pres Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 I really hope fans here aren't dumb enough to bet the over on this. If there's one thing this organization has taught us over the last decade, it's that there is no rock bottom for them. They can always suck more. How are they going to win games in 2025? Pitching? Defense? Hitting? They aren't going to be an MLB team in any aspect whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bananarchy Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 Under Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 We were all told by a possibly senile man that every team would win 60 and lose 60 during a season. It’s what you do with the other 42 that count. Well, we could lose all of those 42, as well as 10 of the guaranteed 60 wins and still hit the over. I think I might put a little something on the over. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted December 19 Share Posted December 19 12 hours ago, oldsox said: Au contraire. They lost their best pitcher, and they have Vargas for the whole year. They only won 10 of the 33 games that pitcher started. By comparison, they won 9 games that Cannon started, and he only started 23 games. My point is that as good as Crochet was last year, he didn’t have much impact on wins and losses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldsox Posted Thursday at 12:09 PM Share Posted Thursday at 12:09 PM 6 hours ago, SoxBlanco said: They only won 10 of the 33 games that pitcher started. By comparison, they won 9 games that Cannon started, and he only started 23 games. My point is that as good as Crochet was last year, he didn’t have much impact on wins and losses. Yes, they took him out after 62 or so pitches. That hurts the ability to win. You made a good point, SB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted Thursday at 01:40 PM Share Posted Thursday at 01:40 PM 1 hour ago, oldsox said: Yes, they took him out after 62 or so pitches. That hurts the ability to win. You made a good point, SB. How many games did the bullpen blow leads? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted Thursday at 05:59 PM Share Posted Thursday at 05:59 PM 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How many games did the bullpen blow leads? 27 times the Sox took a lead into the 7th inning or later...and lost the game in 2024. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted Thursday at 06:01 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:01 PM 17 hours ago, WBWSF said: The 2024 White Sox had the worst offense and bullpen in MLB. They have done nothing to improve these areas. This tells me they are content with this losing situation. We are probably witnessing the worst years in the teams modern history. Its absolutely shameful that this ownership doesn't care about putting a decent product on the field. You would think JR would have the decency to sell the team rather than just keep losing games year after year. Yes it is shameful but not to JR who has other priorities. As stated leaving as much money as possible to his family. Given the tax hit, that would impact this, which is why by all indications that both he has said and others (recently by TLR), he is not selling. That will be left to his family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted Thursday at 06:10 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:10 PM On 12/18/2024 at 10:56 AM, Bob Sacamano said: Under easily Idk, it's really hard to lose 110+ games. Even with being terrible, you need to have a lot go wrong. I'd lean over but really hard to bet on these bums. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Thursday at 06:12 PM Share Posted Thursday at 06:12 PM 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How many games did the bullpen blow leads? Crochet, Fedde and Flexen produced about 11 bWAR over 83 starts (427 IP). Cannon, Martin, Burke, Thorpe and Bryce Wilson were good for about 5 bWAR in 52 starts (341 IP). It doesn't really work to triple the latter numbers and say we're good for 15 bWAR in 156 starts. I think the new 5 can put up at least as much production as last year's starting rotation, even throwing in Clevenger, Soroka and Nastrini's travails. The top starters aren't as good as Crochet and Fedde, and the back end won't be as bad as Soroka, Clevenger and Nastrini. I would also expect Baldwin, Ramos, Vargas, Sosa, and Meidroth to put up a little more offense than the trio of Nicky, DeJong and the clown car of AAA utility infielders. Why? Growth. Higher ceilings. Regression to the mean. That alone, like the "Chicago White Sox" guy pointed out a short while ago, a team of replacement level players (AAAA) would be expected to win about 48 games. I think the top 4 of our rotation are somewhere between replacement and average ML player (0-2 WAR). Last year's team was uniquely bad. That's why they set the record for losses. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Thursday at 06:21 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 06:21 PM 4 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How many games did the bullpen blow leads? Thankfully that is all fixed... oh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted Thursday at 07:30 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:30 PM On 12/18/2024 at 11:59 AM, Y2Jimmy0 said: Nah they'll go over. It's really hard to be that bad again. Not for JR’s White Sox. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Mighty Mite Posted Thursday at 07:34 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:34 PM (edited) 19 hours ago, WBWSF said: The 2024 White Sox had the worst offense and bullpen in MLB. They have done nothing to improve these areas. This tells me they are content with this losing situation. We are probably witnessing the worst years in the teams modern history. Its absolutely shameful that this ownership doesn't care about putting a decent product on the field. You would think JR would have the decency to sell the team rather than just keep losing games year after year. You hit the nail right on the head, another 41-121 season is more than a possibility. I really would like to know what is going on with JR’s mindset. Edited Thursday at 07:35 PM by The Mighty Mite Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Thursday at 07:41 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:41 PM 6 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said: You hit the nail right on the head, another 41-121 season is more than a possibility. I really would like to know what is going on with JR’s mindset. It's like a three legged horse won a horse race. So then we start looking for 3 legged horses to bet on, because now, 3 legged horses will always win horse races. The White Sox underperformed their Pythagorean by 7 wins. They have made improvements to the offense, and where they haven't, I'd expect some regression. They were historically bad. It would be hard to be worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted Thursday at 07:53 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:53 PM 11 minutes ago, WestEddy said: It's like a three legged horse won a horse race. So then we start looking for 3 legged horses to bet on, because now, 3 legged horses will always win horse races. The White Sox underperformed their Pythagorean by 7 wins. They have made improvements to the offense, and where they haven't, I'd expect some regression. They were historically bad. It would be hard to be worse. Ok so even with a 7 win improvement they are still at 48 wins. They have done nothing to improve this roster in any meaningful way yet, sorry but Mike Tauchman aint it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted Thursday at 07:59 PM Share Posted Thursday at 07:59 PM 6 minutes ago, T R U said: Ok so even with a 7 win improvement they are still at 48 wins. They have done nothing to improve this roster in any meaningful way yet, sorry but Mike Tauchman aint it. If you're talking about 2 wins at this point, yes he is. I would call the starting rotation "improved" from last opening day. Offense and regression from the catching position and IF will probably add a few wins. And there's people here saying they'll lose 121 again, or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T R U Posted Thursday at 08:06 PM Share Posted Thursday at 08:06 PM 2 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If you're talking about 2 wins at this point, yes he is. I would call the starting rotation "improved" from last opening day. Offense and regression from the catching position and IF will probably add a few wins. And there's people here saying they'll lose 121 again, or worse. Mike Tauchman being a complementary player on a good team is not the same as Mike Tauchman being arguably your best hitter sans Robert. I think its ridiculous to even suggest the rotation is improved with the loss of Crochet. Who is your starting 5 right now? This is a worse team than last years team right now, I still haven't seen anyone provide any reasoning why they will be better other than hopes and dreams. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted Thursday at 08:06 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 08:06 PM 15 minutes ago, T R U said: Ok so even with a 7 win improvement they are still at 48 wins. They have done nothing to improve this roster in any meaningful way yet, sorry but Mike Tauchman aint it. And removing at least Crochet, and probably Robert, is probably going to eat up those 7 wins. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted Thursday at 08:20 PM Share Posted Thursday at 08:20 PM 16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: And removing at least Crochet, and probably Robert, is probably going to eat up those 7 wins. Removing Luis Robert doesn't remove too many wins. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted Thursday at 08:21 PM Share Posted Thursday at 08:21 PM (edited) 25 minutes ago, WestEddy said: If you're talking about 2 wins at this point, yes he is. I would call the starting rotation "improved" from last opening day. Offense and regression from the catching position and IF will probably add a few wins. And there's people here saying they'll lose 121 again, or worse. We traded Fedde and Crochet? We won 41 games with Fedde being here until end of July and Crochet was here all year (granted, had a reduced workload the second half). Edited Thursday at 08:22 PM by Bob Sacamano Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted Thursday at 08:22 PM Share Posted Thursday at 08:22 PM (edited) Definitely a worse team on paper than last year’s, which was to be expected with their “top” players hitting free agency and the expected trades of Fedde, Kopech, Crochet, Robert, etc. Maybe they somehow perform better than last year’s team, but I can’t imagine it will be by very much. Edited Thursday at 08:24 PM by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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