Draft Kings sets Sox O/U at 49.5 wins

[southsider2k5]

12 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

That response made no sense whatsoever. It didn't even remotely respond to anything I said.

Everyone in this thread is now dumber from reading your response . I award you no points  and may God have mercy on your soul.

 

 

That's it.  Let it all out.  Grrrrr.  Poor guy.

[southsider2k5]

15 hours ago, ptatc said:

I didn't see a significant structural change with all of the new postions with the intent to make the entire organization more efficient and consistent.

Nothing about all of these changes sound or look familiar. They've never had an organizational director of pitching and an organizational director of hitting.

New titles isn't really impressive to me when the same people who caused the problems are still here. Even if someone now has that title, it wasn't like Don Cooper wasn't leading the organization in pitching before Katz got here.

Honestly I wish I could blindly believe again.  It was much nicer.

[ptatc]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

New titles isn't really impressive to me when the same people who caused the problems are still here. Even if someone now has that title, it wasn't like Don Cooper wasn't leading the organization in pitching before Katz got here.

Honestly I wish I could blindly believe again.  It was much nicer.

They aren't new titles. They are new positions and a new organizational structure to bring the team at least into this century. 

I understand why people don't want to believe that it will work. What I don't understand is why people automatically default to it's the white sox so it won't work.

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They aren't new titles. They are new positions and a new organizational structure to bring the team at least into this century. 

I understand why people don't want to believe that it will work. What I don't understand is why people automatically default to it's the white sox so it won't work.

Years of failure under the same owner.  This isn’t at all difficult to understand.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They aren't new titles. They are new positions and a new organizational structure to bring the team at least into this century. 

I understand why people don't want to believe that it will work. What I don't understand is why people automatically default to it's the white sox so it won't work.

Because all of the same factors that made them previously failures are still in charge.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

That's it.  Let it all out.  Grrrrr.  Poor guy.

I think you need a hug. 🫂

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Because all of the same factors that made them previously failures are still in charge.

Doesn't seem like it to me. If you are going to pin everything even the poor offense down to the ownership so be it. That group is the only one left.

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Years of failure under the same owner.  This isn’t at all difficult to understand.

Really, the owners signed and developed that poor offense? Decided to make crochet a starter?

There were substantial changes in the organization if you prefer to stick to the narrative of "no matter what changes are made, the Sox won't win until there is a new owner" enjoy yourself.

I know you won't change the narrative and give new people a chance. Personally, i just understand that reasoning.

[WestEddy]

37 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Really, the owners signed and developed that poor offense? Decided to make crochet a starter?

There were substantial changes in the organization if you prefer to stick to the narrative of "no matter what changes are made, the Sox won't win until there is a new owner" enjoy yourself.

I know you won't change the narrative and give new people a chance. Personally, i just understand that reasoning.

It's as if they think Reinsdorf has a sign on the wall he keeps tapping, reading, "Remember our goal is to suck, cheaply". 

[southsider2k5]

53 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Doesn't seem like it to me. If you are going to pin everything even the poor offense down to the ownership so be it. That group is the only one left.

We failed last year completely.   Offense.  Defense.  Pitching.  Minor Leagues gave us nothing.  We made terrible trades, and failed at churning the waiver wire.  You don't lose 121 games because of a bad offense. 

[fathom]

Even if the over/under was 35.5 wins, I’m not sure they’d reach the over.  This roster is drastically worse than last year.

[ptatc]

22 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We failed last year completely.   Offense.  Defense.  Pitching.  Minor Leagues gave us nothing.  We made terrible trades, and failed at churning the waiver wire.  You don't lose 121 games because of a bad offense. 

True. Which is why they revamped the entire organization. However, the pitching wasn't too bad. It was more the offense being historically bad.

The organization now boasts a top 5 or so minor league system. No guarantee they can do anything with it, but I'm interested to see what the new group can do.

[WestEddy]

18 minutes ago, fathom said:

Even if the over/under was 35.5 wins, I’m not sure they’d reach the over.  This roster is drastically worse than last year.

At that point, why not just say you think the team will go 0-162? 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

13 hours ago, T R U said:

There’s no way they were trying to tank. Getz has no business being a GM, that’s not his fault though it’s the owners fault for looking at his decaying organization and refusing to do the hard reboot that was needed. We were told it wasn’t a rebuild, we were told that we were owed not wasting any time and yet here we are today as the worst team in baseball history. 
 

I would be much more patient and understanding had they just done the right thing from the beginning but we just got fed a load of crap. This team won’t be good this year, and won’t be good next year. Again, would love to be proven wrong but I work for a man who has a great saying “crash jobs usually do.” 

They were trying to tank. The 2023 team had 101 losses and anyone with any value was traded by Hahn and Kenny at the trade deadline for prospects. What did you think that was all about ? So the owner lied to us. Most didn't believe him anyway but I guess some did and we keep hearing about it. We knew very early there was no budget for the 2024 .We knew that in December of 2023. Getz talked about changing the culture and better defense but he had hardly any money to spend just like now.

Unfortunately he's learning on the job and he's made mistakes. The Fedde, Kopech, Pham trade was weird and bad. But I don't think he crippled the franchise going forward.

He's made a lot of smart hires this off season and there's a lot of pitching depth and he finally found a team willing to give up decent position player prospects . That hasnt been easy in the environment of prospect hugging .Even then I don't think it hurt the Red Sox all that much. They kept their top 3 position player prospects and dealt their # 4 and 5 .

If you want to see progress and not a record like 2024 you're going to have to accept the fact that the bullpen and hitting need to get better soon to make up for the loss of Crochet and Fedde. Young starting pitchers and young bullpen pitchers too. But again JR isn't allowing him to spend that much money. We may not see any multi years contracts like we saw Fedde get 2 years last off season.

But as much as you seem to dislike Getz there's no way he thought they could compete in 2024 with Fedde  and a bunch of garbage pail signings.

Crochet wanted to be a starting pitcher so Getz said Ok. Probably thought he's got a great arm .I got some great pitching coaches. Let's give it a shot and maybe we can get something good for him because there's no way  JR would approve an extension and we need some hitters. Not many here expected it to turn out as well as it did.  He got some decent AA arms for Eloy and Grossman

I'm theory no you don't want to trade an 18 yr old for a 32 year old like what just happened but there is a surplus of arms but still maybe not enough MLB arms if you want some positive WAR in the BP. At least you got 3 options and a few years to see if he can be flipped for more .

Rebuilds are also harder now with anti tanking rules that deprive the really bad teams of high draft choices in consecutive years which is why teams are position player prospects clutching. They don't get injured for as long as pitchers who need TJ surgery. But guys like Burger, Eloy, Moncada and Robert defied that logic multiple times.

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

True. Which is why they revamped the entire organization. However, the pitching wasn't too bad. It was more the offense being historically bad.

The organization now boasts a top 5 or so minor league system. No guarantee they can do anything with it, but I'm interested to see what the new group can do.

I bet you made this same post during the last rebuild.  🤣

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

True. Which is why they revamped the entire organization. However, the pitching wasn't too bad. It was more the offense being historically bad.

The organization now boasts a top 5 or so minor league system. No guarantee they can do anything with it, but I'm interested to see what the new group can do.

We did before the last rebuild too.  Again, we've been here before. 

[ptatc]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

We did before the last rebuild too.  Again, we've been here before. 

Didn't that lead to two playoff appearances? I'll take that.

But of course it can't be successful this time around. Not sure why you even discuss anything if you are positive nothing will work. 

 

Edited Sunday at 09:40 PM by ptatc

[Lip Man 1]

7 hours ago, ptatc said:

Didn't that lead to two playoff appearances? I'll take that.

But of course it can't be successful this time around. Not sure why you even discuss anything if you are positive nothing will work. 

 

Those two playoff appearances resulted in two quick exits and an overall record of 2-5.

You are free to take that of course if you wish.

But given the comments about "talk to me after the parade," and "we want to compete for multiple championships" that's a poor substitute. 

Edited Monday at 04:39 AM by Lip Man 1

[ptatc]

57 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Those two playoff appearances resulted in two quick exits and an overall record of 2-6.

You are free to take that of course if you wish.

But given the comments about "talk to me after the parade," and "we want to compete for multiple championships" that's a poor substitute. 

True.

But if your definition of success it a world series title you will be consistently disappointed unless you are a fan of LA or  NY. At least until the salary cap is put in place after the lockout in 2026.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, ptatc said:

Didn't that lead to two playoff appearances? I'll take that.

But of course it can't be successful this time around. Not sure why you even discuss anything if you are positive nothing will work. 

 

Two playoff appearances out of a 4 year rebuild is pretty much a joke.

The Cubs got 5 and a title.

The Astros got 9 and seemingly 1 honest title.

The Royals only got 2 because they couldn’t afford to keep anyone, but they also got a title.

[Balta1701]

27 minutes ago, ptatc said:

True.

But if your definition of success it a world series title you will be consistently disappointed unless you are a fan of LA or  NY. At least until the salary cap is put in place after the lockout in 2026.

When did MLB revoke the Titles of the Rangers, Astros, Braves, Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Royals, and Giants? Ok maybe one of those should have been, but “no one can beat the Yankees or Dodgers” is a pretty F’d up concept when they’ve won 3 titles in the last 20 years. 17 times other teams have won titles!! Hell the highest payroll team isn’t even on the list of teams you’ve declared unbeatable.

[caulfield12]

12 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

When did MLB revoke the Titles of the Rangers, Astros, Braves, Nationals, Red Sox, Astros, Cubs, Royals, and Giants? Ok maybe one of those should have been, but “no one can beat the Yankees or Dodgers” is a pretty F’d up concept when they’ve won 3 titles in the last 20 years. 17 times other teams have won titles!! Hell the highest payroll team isn’t even on the list of teams you’ve declared unbeatable.

NYM/NYY together as a metro?

At least it has shifted from just Yankees and Red Sox.  And Toronto has been outspending Boston the last five years.

[Dick Allen]

59 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Two playoff appearances out of a 4 year rebuild is pretty much a joke.

The Cubs got 5 and a title.

The Astros got 9 and seemingly 1 honest title.

The Royals only got 2 because they couldn’t afford to keep anyone, but they also got a title.

Plus the first one wouldn’t have been one had they played with regular rules. They expanded because of Covid. And of course, no series wins.

But it is interesting how many are OK with how that rebuild turned out.

[caulfield12]

10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Plus the first one wouldn’t have been one had they played with regular rules. They expanded because of Covid. And of course, no series wins.

But it is interesting how many are OK with how that rebuild turned out.

They had the tagline/motto of first consecutive Sox playoff appearances since the 1900's or 1910's or whatever the heck it was...which somehow seemed even more depressing.  There's a good reason KW, Hahn and Haber have basically disappeared or haven't found jobs related to MLB months and months later.

 

https://champsorchumps.us/team/mlb/chicago-white-sox

Just download this and you'll get a full feeling of the frustration...39 years without a playoff appearance from 1920 to 1959.

I guess it was their first back-to-back (barely, as noted, 2020 team was fading badly down the stretch, and based largely on beating up the weaker Central teams) appearances, and just 11 playoff appearances in 124 years, or less than once a decade, on average.

 

Teams: White Sox

Fandom Started: 1979

Championships	D+
Regular Season Success	F-
Playoff Success	F
Suffering	Excessive
Current Trajectory	Freefall
Overall	F-

Edited Monday at 12:09 AM by caulfield12

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, ptatc said:

True.

But if your definition of success it a world series title you will be consistently disappointed unless you are a fan of LA or  NY. At least until the salary cap is put in place after the lockout in 2026.

My definition of success is having consistent winning seasons. Even if you don't make the playoffs. At least with a winning season you have a chance to get in and then a lot can happen. A team with a losing record has never made the post season in MLB. (It would have happened in 1994 with the A.L. West winner had the season resumed). And at least a winning season, even if it is only 82-80 shows some things went right, some things you can build on and it does give you a selling point to the fans and the advertisers.

And the MLBPA is the strongest union in the world, I can not see under ANY circumstances them agreeing to a salary cap. That is a fevered dream of ownership.