Vargas and Fletcher have to play . . . be given every chance to succeed . . . Right?

[vilehoopster]

Unless the White Sox sign some real quality (or even moderate quality) free agents (does anyone start to think that will happen?), doesn't it seem that the Sox have to do every thing they can do/ give every chance they possibly can to make Vargas and Fletcher passable/ solid/ good major league players.

The Sox have to have both of those guys in the lineup starting with spring training and into, at least, the first couple months of the season, maybe longer if we have a cold spring. It just seems that for either or both those guys to have a chance with the Sox, they have to believe the Sox are behind them and that they can make mistakes without being on the chopping block if they/ either one have a crappy spring training or April. 

If for no other reason, it seems that Sox management would really, really want both to succeed to justify the trades for both of them. And let's be honest, giving up Fedde and Kopech for Vargas is going to take a lot of justification because that trade looks awful, awful right now. 

Some have suggested that Fletcher will share right field with Slater, which I guess would be fine, a solid outcome for the trade. But I would think the Sox are hoping that Fletcher will take over right field completely. 

Does anyone not see this happening?

[Lip Man 1]

6 minutes ago, vilehoopster said:

Unless the White Sox sign some real quality (or even moderate quality) free agents (does anyone start to think that will happen?), doesn't it seem that the Sox have to do every thing they can do/ give every chance they possibly can to make Vargas and Fletcher passable/ solid/ good major league players.

The Sox have to have both of those guys in the lineup starting with spring training and into, at least, the first couple months of the season, maybe longer if we have a cold spring. It just seems that for either or both those guys to have a chance with the Sox, they have to believe the Sox are behind them and that they can make mistakes without being on the chopping block if they/ either one have a crappy spring training or April. 

If for no other reason, it seems that Sox management would really, really want both to succeed to justify the trades for both of them. And let's be honest, giving up Fedde and Kopech for Vargas is going to take a lot of justification because that trade looks awful, awful right now. 

Some have suggested that Fletcher will share right field with Slater, which I guess would be fine, a solid outcome for the trade. But I would think the Sox are hoping that Fletcher will take over right field completely. 

Does anyone not see this happening?

Logically they should be playing but like last season if the Sox get off to another record setting losing pace, Getz may try to pick up some more older vets in an effort to not be on the embarrassing end of another year like in 2024.

These are the dysfunctional White Sox remember. 

 

[southsider2k5]

They have already seem to have given up on Fletcher. 

[Eminor3rd]

Nothing has to be anything with this team. 

[TheFutureIsNear]

Vargas sure, why not

 

Fletcher should have to earn his playing time. There’s still a small part of me that would rather see Colas honestly. And not like Fletcher has significantly better pedigree than DeLoach either. Hopefully 1 of those 3 can step up and earn playing time in RF and we don’t see too much of Tauchman and Slater 
 

[Timmy U]

I am tired of letting people play long into their suckitude. Sure, if they hit. But Fletcher was not a highly-ranked prospect, plus, he was bad in the majors and worse in AAA than either Colas or DeLoach.

Vargas was a good prospect but he has not made the jump. And he was so bad last year, I find it hard to believe he’ll have more than half a year to prove himself.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, vilehoopster said:

Unless the White Sox sign some real quality (or even moderate quality) free agents (does anyone start to think that will happen?), doesn't it seem that the Sox have to do every thing they can do/ give every chance they possibly can to make Vargas and Fletcher passable/ solid/ good major league players.

The Sox have to have both of those guys in the lineup starting with spring training and into, at least, the first couple months of the season, maybe longer if we have a cold spring. It just seems that for either or both those guys to have a chance with the Sox, they have to believe the Sox are behind them and that they can make mistakes without being on the chopping block if they/ either one have a crappy spring training or April. 

If for no other reason, it seems that Sox management would really, really want both to succeed to justify the trades for both of them. And let's be honest, giving up Fedde and Kopech for Vargas is going to take a lot of justification because that trade looks awful, awful right now. 

Some have suggested that Fletcher will share right field with Slater, which I guess would be fine, a solid outcome for the trade. But I would think the Sox are hoping that Fletcher will take over right field completely. 

Does anyone not see this happening?

Who has suggested that Fletcher would share RF with Slater?  I’m not even sure he makes the OD roster.  At least with Vargas, he put really good numbers in AAA.  Fletcher was legit terrible everyone and physically doesn’t look someone capable of impacting a baseball.

[nrockway]

2 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said:

Vargas sure, why not

 

Fletcher should have to earn his playing time. There’s still a small part of me that would rather see Colas honestly. And not like Fletcher has significantly better pedigree than DeLoach either. Hopefully 1 of those 3 can step up and earn playing time in RF and we don’t see too much of Tauchman and Slater 
 

I think Fletcher can only be useful if he's an every day center fielder. Which I don't think he is. Low range, too short and too slow and I'm never going to forget him "oops"ing that easy out into a three-run home run. His bat is definitely not good enough to play in right field. Why have two non-sluggers in the corners? 80 grade TWTW I guess, can't teach that. Agree about Colas, he at least has the profile of a right fielder. Realistically Fletcher is probably a semi-useful bench player. Mena had a pretty good season but I think this trade is pretty much a wash. I bet Cannon could net an actually useful outfielder.

Edited December 30, 2024 by nrockway

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, nrockway said:

I think Fletcher can only be useful if he's an every day center fielder. Which I don't think he is. Low range, too short and too slow and I'm never going to forget him "oops"ing that easy out into a three-run home run. His bat is definitely not good enough to play in right field. Why have two non-sluggers in the corners? 80 grade TWTW I guess, can't teach that. Agree about Colas, he at least has the profile of a right fielder. Realistically Fletcher is probably a semi-useful bench player. Mena had a pretty good season but I think this trade is pretty much a wash. I bet Cannon could net an actually useful outfielder.

Trade him (Cannon) to the Orioles lol.

Actually, Davis Martin would be a much better fit.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Trade him (Cannon) to the Orioles lol.

Actually, Davis Martin would be a much better fit.

Beavers for Davis Martin would be interesting to me

[Boopa1219]

I think Vargas is in for 20 plus homers this year, they should give him a single position and just let him play there everyday

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, Boopa1219 said:

I think Vargas is in for 20 plus homers this year, they should give him a single position and just let him play there everyday

With a Mendoza Line?  What about his overall line?

[Chimpton]

6 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Logically they should be playing but like last season if the Sox get off to another record setting losing pace, Getz may try to pick up some more older vets in an effort to not be on the embarrassing end of another year like in 2024.

These are the dysfunctional White Sox remember. 

 

Even if they do get off to another record setting losing pace wouldn't it be better to still play the young players than to get a couple of ageing vets in the hope of getting nearer 50 wins than 40 wins? At least that way the season will not be a complete waste as young players will get experience and the Sox will know which of them isn't going to make it.

[Timmy U]

3 hours ago, Chimpton said:

Even if they do get off to another record setting losing pace wouldn't it be better to still play the young players than to get a couple of ageing vets in the hope of getting nearer 50 wins than 40 wins? At least that way the season will not be a complete waste as young players will get experience and the Sox will know which of them isn't going to make it.

If you’re talking Montgomery or Ramos or Teel or Quero or even Vargas, sure. But Fletcher is a low ceiling 26/27 year old guy. He is not a future piece. He is a now piece. He hits, play him. He doesn’t, minors.

[Chimpton]

1 hour ago, Timmy U said:

If you’re talking Montgomery or Ramos or Teel or Quero or even Vargas, sure. But Fletcher is a low ceiling 26/27 year old guy. He is not a future piece. He is a now piece. He hits, play him. He doesn’t, minors.

I agree but Fletcher has only had 100 games and those weren't in long spells, so it is still worth giving him a good go next season as results are not going to be important, and if after a season chance he still isn't up to it then yes, minors or release.

[oldsox]

Fletcher made a couple of nice plays in Right Field, and he made a couple of horrible plays in Center. Neither one of them showed any promise as a hitter.  Vargas was days from a trip to minors when Getz came along and rescued him. Neither one would make any other team in MLB.

[Buehrle>Wood]

Fletcher looked like an incredible defensive RF so begs the question how he looked so bad in CF. The potential is there defensively, I would think. Needs to prove he can play CF to have some value overall. 

[Highland]

The Sox have some pitching, but I don't see that many position players in this so-called rebuild. We have at least two more losing seasons ahead of us. It appears that Getz is trying to bring some good baseball men into the organization, but progress is slow. The team eventually has to invest in the free agent market. In the long run, the cheap plan is not going to work.

[Chicago White Sox]

For reference, here are some facts & figures related to Vargas & Fletcher:

Vargas: 

• Bio: Age = 25 | B/T = R/R | Height = 6’2” | Weight = 205 | Options = 0
• Acquired: LatAm FA (Y17-300k) | Peak Prospect Ranking = 29th MLB (Y23)
• BA Grades: Hit = 65 | Power = 50 | Run = 60 | Field = 40 | Arm = 55
• Y24 Statcast: Bat Speed = 19th | Chase = 90th | Arm = 88th | Sprint = 84th
• Y24 AAA: 19.9% BB % | 17.3% K % | .276 ISO | .290/.440/1.005 | 151 wRC+

Fletcher: 

• Bio: Age = 27 | B/T = L/L | Height = 5’6” | Weight = 185 | Options = 1 |
• Acquired: 75th pick (Y19-$700k) | Peak Prospect Ranking = 17th org (Y23)
• BA Grades: Hit = 50 | Power = 45 | Run = 45 | Field = 60 | Arm = 55
• Y24 Statcast: Bat Speed = 4th | Chase = 27th | Arm = 80th | Sprint = 25th
• Y24 AAA: 9.4 BB % | 14.2 K % | .126 ISO | .263/.333/.723 | 91 wRC+

Edited December 30, 2024 by Chicago White Sox

[caulfield12]

3 hours ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Fletcher looked like an incredible defensive RF so begs the question how he looked so bad in CF. The potential is there defensively, I would think. Needs to prove he can play CF to have some value overall. 

See Eaton, Adam in CF vs. RF.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Highland said:

The Sox have some pitching, but I don't see that many position players in this so-called rebuild. We have at least two more losing seasons ahead of us. It appears that Getz is trying to bring some good baseball men into the organization, but progress is slow. The team eventually has to invest in the free agent market. In the long run, the cheap plan is not going to work.

Definitely more than 2.  Even the position players we have a good chunk of them are really young, and that is just to get them here.  If they aren't instant successes, which most aren't, it will take a year or two (maybe more) to settle in.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

For reference, here are some facts & figures related to Vargas & Fletcher:

Vargas: 

• Bio: Age = 25 | B/T = R/R | Height = 6’2” | Weight = 205 | Options = 0
• Acquired: LatAm FA (Y17-300k) | Peak Prospect Ranking = 29th MLB (Y23)
• BA Grades: Hit = 65 | Power = 50 | Run = 60 | Field = 40 | Arm = 55
• Y24 Statcast: Bat Speed = 19th | Chase = 90th | Arm = 88th | Sprint = 84th
• Y24 AAA: 19.9% BB % | 17.3% K % | .276 ISO | .290/.440/1.005 | 151 wRC+

Fletcher: 

• Bio: Age = 27 | B/T = L/L | Height = 5’6” | Weight = 185 | Options = 1 |
• Acquired: 75th pick (Y19-$700k) | Peak Prospect Ranking = 17th org (Y23)
• BA Grades: Hit = 50 | Power = 45 | Run = 45 | Field = 60 | Arm = 55
• Y24 Statcast: Bat Speed = 4th | Chase = 27th | Arm = 80th | Sprint = 25th
• Y24 AAA: 9.4 BB % | 14.2 K % | .126 ISO | .263/.333/.723 | 91 wRC+

Both of these guys should be playing over pretty much any of these dumpster dives from the winter.  Now is the time to figure them out.

[steveno89]

10 hours ago, Boopa1219 said:

I think Vargas is in for 20 plus homers this year, they should give him a single position and just let him play there everyday

Vargas has to be better than what he has shown at the MLB level so far in his career

He hits really well in AAA and needs to get over whatever mental block happens to him once he gets to the show

[Sambuca]

At this point, I see no reason why Fletcher should not get more extended playing time to see if can adequately serve an MLB role. 

I understand he is limited in physical ability, but he hit in the minors and people in the org. believed he could hit in the majors so we might as well let it play out at this point. There is not much else going. 

[Bob Sacamano]

5 minutes ago, Sambuca said:

At this point, I see no reason why Fletcher should not get more extended playing time to see if can adequately serve an MLB role. 

I understand he is limited in physical ability, but he hit in the minors and people in the org. believed he could hit in the majors so we might as well let it play out at this point. There is not much else going. 

As of now, the starting OF is LF Benintendi CF Robert and RF Tauchman/Slater. Unless Benny is the primary DH, it doesn't seem like Fletcher will get much of a shot.