Sox Acquire Tyler Gilbert for Aaron Combs, DFA Braden Shewmake

[southsider2k5]

21 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

We don’t know what the other offers were.  Getz thought he was getting back two rotation arms in Soroka and Shuster and a starting 2B in Lopez.  He was trying to fill out a rotation and lineup with cheap fliers [junk].  Perhaps another team was offering a couple prospects better than that 5 player “haul” that Getz got back.

We do have a poster who swears this is true 

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

We don’t know what the other offers were.  Getz thought he was getting back two rotation arms in Soroka and Shuster and a starting 2B in Lopez.  He was trying to fill out a rotation and lineup with cheap fliers [junk].  Perhaps another team was offering a couple prospects better than that 5 player “haul” that Getz got back.

Perhaps? That is funny. Sure. Perhaps the Orioles were offering two of Kjerstad, Mayo and Basallo. 

So what? You rail on about that trade when nobody who analyzed it really panned it. With the Cease trade, most people called it "a little light". And the Fedde trade? "One guy short". The Bummer trade was like, "Okay, they got some guys back. If this breaks well, and the other, fine." You act like it was the Tatis Jr. trade, or something. It really wasn't. Even with a year under their belts, it still isn't. Not even close. 

[Capn12]

Getz out here playing 4D chess....

 

"I'm going to use my fringe prospects to trade for elder bullpen arms. And if those arms do something useful in the 2025 season, I can trade them at the deadline for fringe prospects!"

[Nardiwashere]

4 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Isn’t it interesting that Getz had to DFA one of his trade acquisitions from last year to make room for this guy?  My guess is that Gilbert will go the same way as Shewmake within the next year.

This is like the exact opposite of interesting.

Unless they just got the job, pretty much every GM is dropping a guy he acquired when he DFAs someone.  

[WestEddy]

16 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

We do have a poster who swears this is true 

And really, if there's a GM out there who really wanted Bummer...let's call him GM X. And GM X wanted Bummer so bad, he was offering 2 legit dudes who were head and shoulders above Gowens, Shuster and Soroka, and GM X let Bummer go to Atlanta? GM X should be spending his idle New Year's Day evening posting on a White Sox chat board, not working for his former club. 

[Chicago White Sox]

 

[southsider2k5]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

And really, if there's a GM out there who really wanted Bummer...let's call him GM X. And GM X wanted Bummer so bad, he was offering 2 legit dudes who were head and shoulders above Gowens, Shuster and Soroka, and GM X let Bummer go to Atlanta? GM X should be spending his idle New Year's Day evening posting on a White Sox chat board, not working for his former club. 

I have no idea what you are actually trying to say here.

[greg775]

This is familiar. Offseason stockpiling of the latest crop of relievers. Law of averages gonna give the Sox a good bullpen for once? A good bullpen makes the over 49 bet look better. My tip: Pay attention gamblers. You mite wanna bet the house on over 49.

[WestEddy]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have no idea what you are actually trying to say here.

Yes you do. 

If the Bummer return was so bad, and if some other GM was offering the sun, the moon and the stars, how does that GM allow Getz to trade Bummer for 5 guys who should never have held a baseball instead of his package of future HOFers?  - And then not leak it?!?

We're pretending that Bummer was one of the top lefty relievers in the game. How do the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Brewers, Padres, Mariners, Astros, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Giants, D-backs, Rangers, Phillies all let him go for "literally nothing" - 5 homeless guys - instead of adding that last DSL reliever (to an already awesome package), to swing that trade?

 

Edited Thursday at 05:22 AM by WestEddy

[WestEddy]

24 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I have no idea what you are actually trying to say here.

I mean, seriously - if I was offering you $1million for that Stutz Bearcat in your garage, and you announced you were going to sell it to a stranger in South Bend for 5 popsicle sticks, I would probably leak my offer to the press.  Maybe Chris Getz doesn't control the White Sox. He controls all of baseball. 

[southsider2k5]

19 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yes you do. 

If the Bummer return was so bad, and if some other GM was offering the sun, the moon and the stars, how does that GM allow Getz to trade Bummer for 5 guys who should never have held a baseball instead of his package of future HOFers?  - And then not leak it?!?

We're pretending that Bummer was one of the top lefty relievers in the game. How do the Dodgers, Yankees, Mets, Cubs, Brewers, Padres, Mariners, Astros, Red Sox, Blue Jays, Giants, D-backs, Rangers, Phillies all let him go for "literally nothing" - 5 homeless guys - instead of adding that last DSL reliever (to an already awesome package), to swing that trade?

 

Got it.  You are calling him a liar and mocking him. Not sure what the over the top exaggeration and hyperbole was about, because there is about a hundred miles of space between this post and a "better haul" as was previously said, but the rumor is obviously out there, so you can save the hysterics for the next offense. 

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Got it.  You are calling him a liar and mocking him. Not sure what the over the top exaggeration and hyperbole was about, because there is about a hundred miles of space between this post and a "better haul" as was previously said, but the rumor is obviously out there, so you can save the hysterics for the next offense. 

I have no idea what you're talking about. You claimed somebody hinted at an offer way better than Gowens, Shuster and Soroka. Link it. 

Maybe, if you ever told the guy who engages in hyperbole about the Bummer trade to cut the BS, we would all stop believing it wasn't one of your sock puppets. A "different" haul isn't a "better" haul, unless somebody can prove it. Prove it, otherwise, we can stop "ruining" every string with this Bummer trade BS. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

4 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

This. Both of these guys are likely inconsequential, its the process that is flawed and baffling. 

We heard about how the process was so good in the Burger/ Eder trade. How's that working out ? Was it a bad trade a flawed process, bad scouting ?  Nice way to never be happy about any trade or take accountability for it. Our process was good it was just one of those things.  Trades are a result oriented thing not a process oriented thing.

It's not about the process its about what works out for you and what doesn't.

It isn't flawed just because you say it is. You'd have a lot of problems proving any process is flawed without flawed results. And it isn't a process unless you have a sample size.  I don't think you have a process or a flawed process right now.

He's trying to add incremental RP depth so he can keep any young RP near MLB ready and trade the older ones. It's not that baffling. And it's likely not to make too much difference in this year's record.  Some of those young RP MLB ready arms may be helpful this year while they get their feet wet.  But more so in the coming years when we have our better SP hitting their stride and position player prospects also getting better  , health permitting.

But I am having a hard time keeping track of all the new pitchers and am very curious to see who is put in what roles and  how it all plays out. If they trade some of the older guys and young guys step in  i think the BP will be less than horrific this year. Can't really expect more than that unfortunately.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[Dick Allen]

Someday maybe we can argue about trades that actually matter.It's so sad we are arguing about 8th round picks and 31 year old DFA'd guys. But that's all we have.

[WhiteSox2023]

8 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. You claimed somebody hinted at an offer way better than Gowens, Shuster and Soroka. Link it. 

Maybe, if you ever told the guy who engages in hyperbole about the Bummer trade to cut the BS, we would all stop believing it wasn't one of your sock puppets. A "different" haul isn't a "better" haul, unless somebody can prove it. Prove it, otherwise, we can stop "ruining" every string with this Bummer trade BS. 

Hyperbole is assuming that when someone says another team may have offered more than the Braves for Bummer, that immediately means it was two of the Orioles top prospects.  No one ever said that, but it wouldn’t take much to beat an offer that included the Braves two DFA candidates in Soroka and Lopez, a mediocre longman with crappy stuff in Shuster, along with Gowens and the recently DFA Shewmake.  I don’t care about last year and acquiring bums like Soroka and Lopez.  Everyone knew it was a lost year and those guys sucked.  So yes, it is possible that two prospects from another team could be worth more than Shuster and Gowens right now, and they don’t have to be two of Kjerstad, Mayo, and Basallo.

I know I’d rather have the Twins #3 prospect right now over Vargas but I’m sure you’ll defend that trade to your dying breath as well.

Edited Thursday at 02:49 PM by WhiteSox2023

[southsider2k5]

8 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I have no idea what you're talking about. You claimed somebody hinted at an offer way better than Gowens, Shuster and Soroka. Link it. 

Maybe, if you ever told the guy who engages in hyperbole about the Bummer trade to cut the BS, we would all stop believing it wasn't one of your sock puppets. A "different" haul isn't a "better" haul, unless somebody can prove it. Prove it, otherwise, we can stop "ruining" every string with this Bummer trade 

If you believe I have sock puppets and are being conspired againstin such a terrible fashion, you probably should be smart enough to find a board that better fits what you are looking for in social media.  If you don't read other posts, I  can’t do much for you.  It isn't my job to baby you.

[Chisoxfn]

For a rebuilding club - this is just utterly stupid. Trading 8th round picks with 0 eras in their debut (small sample size) for 31 year old journey men is flat out stupid. 

[Balta1701]

8 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

Someday maybe we can argue about trades that actually matter.It's so sad we are arguing about 8th round picks and 31 year old DFA'd guys. But that's all we have.

Just to stress this, it was always ok to give away 6th round draft picks and 18 year old international signees, it never hurt the White Sox...until an 18 month stretch from 2015-2016 where suddenly it wasn't.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 hours ago, Chisoxfn said:

For a rebuilding club - this is just utterly stupid. Trading 8th round picks with 0 eras in their debut (small sample size) for 31 year old journey men is flat out stupid. 

Very, very small sample size at a low level of competition, considering his age, but the strikeout rate could have been promising.

[bmags]

20 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

This. Both of these guys are likely inconsequential, it’s the process that is flawed and baffling. 

One of the things we saw last year was they overloaded on guys like this (take advantage of churn…fine) but the 40 man was way too many old players with no options. When they had to shake things up after their terrible start, those players were all released or sent off. They had no margin for error, had to decide on all of them based on ST and 1 month of ball. 1 month of relief appearances wasn’t a lot.

Anyway the guys they let go were a lot better than the ones they put in.

This guy does have one option, so I guess maybe in 5-6 years Getz is trading for guys with full careers left and are young and promising instead of old and bad.

 

[Dick Allen]

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Just to stress this, it was always ok to give away 6th round draft picks and 18 year old international signees, it never hurt the White Sox...until an 18 month stretch from 2015-2016 where suddenly it wasn't.

Tatis Jr. was obviously a horrible trade, but you would have hated him on the White Sox, especially after his PED suspension. And he would now be a free agent, because there was no way JR was giving him all that cash. 2020 and 2021 might have gone better, especially 2021, as 2020 the Sox had 2 starters when the playoffs came around. After that, missed all of 2022 with an injury and PED suspension. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. His OPS dropped 200 points in 2023 from 2021, and the Sox lost 101 games, so not much of a difference he could have made.. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. Maybe they trade him at the deadline in 2024 and get a couple of decent prospects, but the team still loses 100 games. Might not have set a loss record though, but that's a lot of money to pay out for a couple of prospects.

[bmags]

6 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Tatis Jr. was obviously a horrible trade, but you would have hated him on the White Sox, especially after his PED suspension. And he would now be a free agent, because there was no way JR was giving him all that cash. 2020 and 2021 might have gone better, especially 2021, as 2020 the Sox had 2 starters when the playoffs came around. After that, missed all of 2022 with an injury and PED suspension. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. His OPS dropped 200 points in 2023 from 2021, and the Sox lost 101 games, so not much of a difference he could have made.. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. Maybe they trade him at the deadline in 2024 and get a couple of decent prospects, but the team still loses 100 games. Might not have set a loss record though, but that's a lot of money to pay out for a couple of prospects.

one thing I’d respond to though, because in general it sucks that I care about this, is that it seemed like the 2017-2019 Hahn Sox were getting the big trades right, but they were getting a ton of the small stuff noticeably wrong. That stuff was often dismissed as not mattering, but it was the signal they weren’t capable of sustaining and was dead obvious by 2020 when they had no chips to improve the team in a playoff run.

A front office we know is good would not get this much heat on stuff like this, but Getz got very few of the little things right last year, and he has to earn the belief of fans that he has the foot on the gas in collecting the right talent in every avenue.

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, bmags said:

one thing I’d respond to though, because in general it sucks that I care about this, is that it seemed like the 2017-2019 Hahn Sox were getting the big trades right, but they were getting a ton of the small stuff noticeably wrong. That stuff was often dismissed as not mattering, but it was the signal they weren’t capable of sustaining and was dead obvious by 2020 when they had no chips to improve the team in a playoff run.

A front office we know is good would not get this much heat on stuff like this, but Getz got very few of the little things right last year, and he has to earn the belief of fans that he has the foot on the gas in collecting the right talent in every avenue.

The one thing the teams that were successful at rebuilding did that the White Sox did not, was clean house in the front office. The people that got you in the mess, aren't the ones that are going to lead you to sustained success. At some point, you're going to be back to having to add a player here or there, like you said, the little things, and they get those wrong. Getz, like you wrote, is the same. The one small  hope we have is the team is sold fairly soon, and the new owner realizes the problem. But now we are stuck, and 30+ year old  DFAs and non tenders are our big moves.

[caulfield12]

48 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Tatis Jr. was obviously a horrible trade, but you would have hated him on the White Sox, especially after his PED suspension. And he would now be a free agent, because there was no way JR was giving him all that cash. 2020 and 2021 might have gone better, especially 2021, as 2020 the Sox had 2 starters when the playoffs came around. After that, missed all of 2022 with an injury and PED suspension. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. His OPS dropped 200 points in 2023 from 2021, and the Sox lost 101 games, so not much of a difference he could have made.. Do they trade him then? Probably pennies to the dollar. Maybe they trade him at the deadline in 2024 and get a couple of decent prospects, but the team still loses 100 games. Might not have set a loss record though, but that's a lot of money to pay out for a couple of prospects.

To be fair he had a 959 career ops heading into 2023...he had over one full season off and was going through a position change to RF.

770 ops with Gold Glove defense is still pretty valuable, and the best player on the roster last year for the Sox...but there's no doubt JR was never going to give him anything approaching $170 million as an extension, let alone $340.

[Dick Allen]

9 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

To be fair he had a 959 career ops heading into 2023...he had over one full season off and was going through a position change to RF.

770 ops with Gold Glove defense is still pretty valuable, and the best player on the roster last year for the Sox...but there's no doubt JR was never going to give him anything approaching $170 million as an extension, let alone $340.

It is, and if the Sox didn't trade him, he probably would have been tested at a different time, and might not have been caught, and 40 homers a season might have continued. But he would have been traded in the last 2 years anyway. Admittedly, they would have got a lot more than James Shields.