White Sox agree to 1 year deal with INF Josh Rojas

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I’d start Ramos and Meidroth in AAA. Sosa starts at 2B, Rojas at 3B, and Vargas/Vaughn at 1B/DH. You can mix Vargas in at 3B if you want to see how he can handle it. 

If Ramos or Meidroth deserve a call up, chances are somebody will be injured or performing poorly by that point. And if not, then that’s a pretty damn good problem to have. 

In terms of Meidroth, he has 558 plate appearances at AAA already. He put up a .437 OBP in those appearances. What exactly does a guy have to do to earn a callup? What are we expecting he needs to learn by getting more walks from AAA pitching?

If we treated Thorpe like this we'd call it lunacy, sending him back to AAA and hoping he gets 12 starts in the big leagues, but that's the plan for one of the guys we just acquired apparently.

[WestEddy]

19 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

At this point in time, I’m not worried about there not being enough PAs to go around. Some guys will get hurt, some guys will not perform despite an extended look. This 40 man isn’t even close to having enough depth on the position player side. Maybe after another couple trades and FA signings they’ll be approaching that point.

Yeah, I've made these arguments in support of signing Rojas, because he will probably be cheap, and will be a steady, above-replacement addition. The Sox used 12 IFs last year, in a complete disaster of injuries and overmatched minor leaguers. They have 10 infielders lined up, 7 weeks before spring training starts. 

My sunniest take on this rebuild is that 2026 will be a "These Kids Can Play" season where they struggle to hit .500 by the end of the season, and make a spirited run for it in 2027. Kim's best seasons will be in this 50-110 year, and the "coming of age" season where .500 becomes a moral victory (again, in my sunniest of scenarios). He might also put up 2-3 WAR in '27, his age 31, an actual "going for it season", but you're looking at declining performance once you actually enter your window. 

So, you pay Kim 5/$70M, and the first 3 of his seasons, he's starting in front of C. Monty, Baldwin, and maybe Sosa, Vargas, Meidoth and Ramos. Then, if everything goes right, you're paying a utility infielder $14M per for his declining years.

Again, that is if this current group pops, and they get better than average MLB years out of C. Monty, Ramos, Teel, Quero, etc. 

[46DidIt]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

The Sox probably won't be a .500 team in 3 seasons.  

You add players like that to fill holes on a team that is competitive, not to waste resources on historically bad teams and block your top prospect. 

Sox must have a lot of great prospects if they’re at a point they don’t have room for a single above average veteran

[caulfield12]

17 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, I've made these arguments in support of signing Rojas, because he will probably be cheap, and will be a steady, above-replacement addition. The Sox used 12 IFs last year, in a complete disaster of injuries and overmatched minor leaguers. They have 10 infielders lined up, 7 weeks before spring training starts. 

My sunniest take on this rebuild is that 2026 will be a "These Kids Can Play" season where they struggle to hit .500 by the end of the season, and make a spirited run for it in 2027. Kim's best seasons will be in this 50-110 year, and the "coming of age" season where .500 becomes a moral victory (again, in my sunniest of scenarios). He might also put up 2-3 WAR in '27, his age 31, an actual "going for it season", but you're looking at declining performance once you actually enter your window. 

So, you pay Kim 5/$70M, and the first 3 of his seasons, he's starting in front of C. Monty, Baldwin, and maybe Sosa, Vargas, Meidoth and Ramos. Then, if everything goes right, you're paying a utility infielder $14M per for his declining years.

Again, that is if this current group pops, and they get better than average MLB years out of C. Monty, Ramos, Teel, Quero, etc. 

You might get 5/$70 if nobody else in baseball needed a high quality veteran SS for the second half of the 2025.

But his value is intrinsically higher than Benintendi's ever was.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Sox must have a lot of great prospects if they’re at a point they don’t have room for a single above average veteran

No, that's not how it works. If you have a number of average prospects, you have to play them. They may or may not get better with experience, but they won't get better if they don't get experience. 

[caulfield12]

7 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Sox must have a lot of great prospects if they’re at a point they don’t have room for a single above average veteran

But he's something of a one dimensional player...unfortunately.  From an fWAR standpoint, he's (Rojas) the equivalent of Romy Gonzalez.  Unfortunately the two can't be combined into one complete player.

[SoxBlanco]

34 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

In terms of Meidroth, he has 558 plate appearances at AAA already. He put up a .437 OBP in those appearances. What exactly does a guy have to do to earn a callup? What are we expecting he needs to learn by getting more walks from AAA pitching?

If we treated Thorpe like this we'd call it lunacy, sending him back to AAA and hoping he gets 12 starts in the big leagues, but that's the plan for one of the guys we just acquired apparently.

Fair. I didn’t realize he has that much experience in AAA already. I still think there are plenty of at bats available at 3B, 2B, 1B, and DH for five guys (Vargas, Sosa, Meidroth, Vaughn, Rojas), especially if Rojas plays OF every once in a while. It’s not like guys won’t be getting days off. 

[WestEddy]

17 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Sox must have a lot of great prospects if they’re at a point they don’t have room for a single above average veteran

Great? No. You do have Vargas and Sosa, both of whom are out of options, that you need to figure out if they can be average to above average major league starters. You can't do that by starting them twice a week. You then have two prospects in C. Monty and Ramos who actually do project out as average major league starters, and they should earn a full preview in 2025. 

EDIT: Oh, I thought you were talking about Kim. I like the signing of Rojas. 

Edited Saturday at 04:47 PM by WestEddy

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But he's something of a one dimensional player...unfortunately.  From an fWAR standpoint, he's (Rojas) the equivalent of Romy Gonzalez.  Unfortunately the two can't be combined into one complete player.

What's ironic here is Romy Gonzalez is a perfect example of why this is a problem!

Romy got 239 plate appearances with the White Sox over 3 years. He was quite bad in these spots overall, despite ok numbers in the minor leagues. He never got a chance in the bigs with the White Sox because we needed veterans like Elvis Andrus, Nicky Lopez, and now Luis Rojas.

Romy was then waived by the White Sox, picked up by the Red Sox, and bang, last year, tolerable backup/utility guy for them, performing just about as well as Rojas, with multiple years of pre-arbitration control remaining, presumably at like 1/4 of Rojas's price. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Great? No. You do have Vargas and Sosa, both of whom are out of options, that you need to figure out if they can be average to above average major league starters. You can't do that by starting them twice a week. You then have two prospects in C. Monty and Ramos who actually do project out as average major league starters, and they should earn a full preview in 2025. 

Colson absolutely should not break camp with the mlb team. Ramos is 22 and needs more time in AAA as well. Not like he tore it up last season down there.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What's ironic here is Romy Gonzalez is a perfect example of why this is a problem!

Romy got 239 plate appearances with the White Sox over 3 years. He was quite bad in these spots overall, despite ok numbers in the minor leagues. He never got a chance in the bigs with the White Sox because we needed veterans like Elvis Andrus, Nicky Lopez, and now Luis Rojas.

Romy was then waived by the White Sox, picked up by the Red Sox, and bang, last year, tolerable backup/utility guy for them, performing just about as well as Rojas, with multiple years of pre-arbitration control remaining, presumably at like 1/4 of Rojas's price. 

Romy was a 0.2 fWAR player last season. Rojas was 1.9 and has been 1-2.5 in each of the last 4 seasons. The two aren’t comparable..

[WestEddy]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Romy was a 0.2 fWAR player last season. Rojas was 1.9 and has been 1-2.5 in each of the last 4 seasons. The two aren’t comparable..

I don't get the Romy love. A good manager picked his spots and Romy succeeded in them. If Romy stayed with the White Sox, he would have started at 2B, and within 6 weeks have been exposed and OPSing .520. 

[Balta1701]

7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Colson absolutely should not break camp with the mlb team. Ramos is 22 and needs more time in AAA as well. Not like he tore it up last season down there.

The opening day lineup of guys who I think should be in the big leagues is Meidroth, Sosa, Vargas, Quero, and I guess Vaughn although I’d still drop him while I can. 

One of these guys will be on the bench for Rojas. If he could play SS this would be a different conversation, but right now the only way I see to work that is to move Sosa to SS and Vargas to DH?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't get the Romy love. A good manager picked his spots and Romy succeeded in them. If Romy stayed with the White Sox, he would have started at 2B, and within 6 weeks have been exposed and OPSing .520. 

Even picking spots, romy was worth just 0.2 fWAR. I would expect a guy like Brooks Baldwin can do that in a utility role, which is where he should be unless he proves otherwise.

[southsider2k5]

23 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Sox must have a lot of great prospects if they’re at a point they don’t have room for a single above average veteran

They have room for about 25 above average players right now, which is the point.  Pissing away the resources and playing time for one player which does absolutely nothing to help the future of this franchise is short sighted and a waste.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The opening day lineup of guys who I think should be in the big leagues is Meidroth, Sosa, Vargas, Quero, and I guess Vaughn although I’d still drop him while I can. 

One of these guys will be on the bench for Rojas. If he could play SS this would be a different conversation, but right now the only way I see to work that is to move Sosa to SS and Vargas to DH?

Quero won’t be on the mlb club at the start of the season. Meidroth might but that’s not a given either.

[Balta1701]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't get the Romy love. A good manager picked his spots and Romy succeeded in them. If Romy stayed with the White Sox, he would have started at 2B, and within 6 weeks have been exposed and OPSing .520. 

Romy actually outhit Rojas, plays more positions than him, and will cost 1/4 or 1/5 as much. FWAR is a counting stat and so it’s taking into account shorter season and which positions the guy is at - this will sometimes devalue a utility guy because he got some games backup up 1b or a corner OF spot.

For 10+ years the White Sox have been spending money on utility guys because they can’t develop their own ones cheaply. He’s exactly the kind of utility player the White Sox need this year, not great or anything, but cheap and able to play basically every IF or OF position including SS.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

They have room for about 25 above average players right now, which is the point.  Pissing away the resources and playing time for one player which does absolutely nothing to help the future of this franchise is short sighted and a waste.

If he’s signed to a 5 year deal, he’s under team control for the same length as guys like Lenyn Sosa and Miguel Vargas.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Romy actually outhit Rojas, plays more positions than him, and will cost 1/4 or 1/5 as much.

For 10+ years the White Sox have been spending money on utility guys because they can’t develop their own ones cheaply. He’s exactly the kind of utility player the White Sox need this year, not great or anything, but cheap and able to play basically every IF or OF position including SS.

I’d much rather have Baldwin playing the infield utility role than Romy Gonzalez and it’s not even close.

[Balta1701]

6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Quero won’t be on the mlb club at the start of the season. Meidroth might but that’s not a given either.

As I said earlier, I don’t know what you have to do to earn a callup in the white Sox organization if Meidroth doesn’t break camp with the White Sox. 

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’d much rather have Baldwin playing the infield utility role than Romy Gonzalez and it’s not even close.

I’d rather have Romy Gonzalez than Rojas and it’s not even close.

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Romy actually outhit Rojas, plays more positions than him, and will cost 1/4 or 1/5 as much.

For 10+ years the White Sox have been spending money on utility guys because they can’t develop their own ones cheaply. He’s exactly the kind of utility player the White Sox need this year, not great or anything, but cheap and able to play basically every IF or OF position including SS.

Well, they developed him. Winning!

But he's a utility player. My point is directed at those who act like we let a starting 2B option go on the waiver wire. 

[southsider2k5]

3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If he’s signed to a 5 year deal, he’s under team control for the same length as guys like Lenyn Sosa and Miguel Vargas.

While blocking players like Sosa and Montgomery, when in reality you should be looking to add to fill holes AFTER you figure out what you actually have in a few years instead of preventing that talent evaluation from happening and paying someone money to do it.

[Balta1701]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Well, they developed him. Winning!

But he's a utility player. My point is directed at those who act like we let a starting 2B option go on the waiver wire. 

No, but we are in the thread of the White Sox signing a utility player right now!

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

As I said earlier, I don’t know what you have to do to earn a callup in the white Sox organization if Meidroth doesn’t break camp with the White Sox. 

He might make the club ahead of Amaya. TBD but not a given. Let’s see what they look like in two months.