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White Sox agree to 1 year deal with INF Josh Rojas


Sleepy Harold

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7 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Romy actually outhit Rojas, plays more positions than him, and will cost 1/4 or 1/5 as much.

For 10+ years the White Sox have been spending money on utility guys because they can’t develop their own ones cheaply. He’s exactly the kind of utility player the White Sox need this year, not great or anything, but cheap and able to play basically every IF or OF position including SS.

And when Rojas got the same treatment as Romy, picking his spots, and not being "the starter", they're pretty much the same player. 

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9 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

If he’s signed to a 5 year deal, he’s under team control for the same length as guys like Lenyn Sosa and Miguel Vargas.

If Lenyn Sosa hit .100 for 8 weeks, and never caught a baseball with his baseball mitt while playing the field, he can be cut, and gets paid the pro-rated amount of the minimum. Nobody's arguing that it sure sucks having control of a guy for 5 years. 

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6 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

While blocking players like Sosa and Montgomery, when in reality you should be looking to add to fill holes AFTER you figure out what you actually have in a few years instead of preventing that talent evaluation from happening and paying someone money to do it.

Montgomery, Kim, Meidroth, Ramos, Sosa, Baldwin. Plenty of ABs to go around this group of 2b, SS, 3b over the next few years. Rojas will be lucky to be with the team past July anyways. Some will get hurt, some will flame out. I don’t see the concern, at all.

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11 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The opening day lineup of guys who I think should be in the big leagues is Meidroth, Sosa, Vargas, Quero, and I guess Vaughn although I’d still drop him while I can. 

One of these guys will be on the bench for Rojas. If he could play SS this would be a different conversation, but right now the only way I see to work that is to move Sosa to SS and Vargas to DH?

Even taking SS completely out of the equation, it’s still possible to get everyone a lot of at bats. Meidroth can play 2B or 3B. Sosa can play 2B or 3B. Vargas can play 1B, DH, 3B. Vaughn can play 1B or DH. Rojas can play anywhere, including outfield. 

You could give those five guys one day off per week and be able to make it work. 

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5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

If Lenyn Sosa hit .100 for 8 weeks, and never caught a baseball with his baseball mitt while playing the field, he can be cut, and gets paid the pro-rated amount of the minimum. Nobody's arguing that it sure sucks having control of a guy for 5 years. 

I understand that but the argument was that Kim wouldn’t be a part of the “future” given his age and duration of his contract I guess? If you sign him for 5 years, doesn’t that make him part of the future? It’s pretty rare that a player in his 20s hits free agency at a position of need and is actually within the Sox budget. Typically, FAs within the Sox budget are already in their low 30s (Grandal) or just not very good (Benintendi).

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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

No, but we are in the thread of the White Sox signing a utility player right now!

But I'm addressing people commenting about Romy in this very thread. Just to sum up all of my views:

1) I support signing Rojas. We're going to need the bodies to cover 3 IF spots over the course of the season. 
2) I don't support signing Kim. He costs too much for what the Sox are doing right now, and he will most likely begin to fade before the Sox hit their competitive window. 
3) I would love to still have Romy Gonzalez as a utility infielder.
4) However, some here speak of Romy like he's another Tatis Jr. we let get away. Romy Gonzalez is a utility infielder. 
5) IF we still had Romy Gonzalez, we should use up all his options when guys like Meidroth, Ramos, Vaughn, Baldwin and every other IF is injured. Romy Gonzalez is a utility infielder.
6) Baldwin will be a super-sub, able to start at multiple positions. Romy Gonzalez is a utility infielder. 

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11 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Montgomery, Kim, Meidroth, Ramos, Sosa, Baldwin. Plenty of ABs to go around this group of 2b, SS, 3b over the next few years. Rojas will be lucky to be with the team past July anyways. Some will get hurt, some will flame out. I don’t see the concern, at all.

I don't see the point, at all.

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5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I understand that but the argument was that Kim wouldn’t be a part of the “future” given his age and duration of his contract I guess? If you sign him for 5 years, doesn’t that make him part of the future? It’s pretty rare that a player in his 20s hits free agency at a position of need and is actually within the Sox budget. Typically, FAs within the Sox budget are already in their low 30s (Grandal) or just not very good (Benintendi).

Sure, but he won't be in his 20s when this team is even mediocre again.  And you have given away all of the ABs you could have used for internal evaluations, that way when it is actually time to fill holes to win something,  you know your own players and are trying to fill actual holes.

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3 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Don’t whine when they lose 122 games then like you did in 2024 when they lost 121.

If the Sox are as short sighted as you want them to be, I will 100% whine.  Losing 119 games instead of 122 because you blocked your top prospect would be the height of stupid.

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4 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sure, but he won't be in his 20s when this team is even mediocre again.  And you have given away all of the ABs you could have used for internal evaluations, that way when it is actually time to fill holes to win something,  you know your own players and are trying to fill actual holes.

Yea, and they already tried that. Waited until 2020/2021/2022 during the last rebuild to sign veterans once the holes were clearly identified and were left signing Grandal, Eaton, Kuechel, Pollock, and a bunch of relief pitchers. Awesome plan.

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7 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yea, and they already tried that. Waited until 2020/2021/2022 during the last rebuild to sign veterans once the holes were clearly identified and were left signing Grandal, Eaton, Kuechel, Pollock, and a bunch of relief pitchers. Awesome plan.

So how is guessing years ahead of time better?  Are you even serious right now?  

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6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I understand that but the argument was that Kim wouldn’t be a part of the “future” given his age and duration of his contract I guess? If you sign him for 5 years, doesn’t that make him part of the future? It’s pretty rare that a player in his 20s hits free agency at a position of need and is actually within the Sox budget. Typically, FAs within the Sox budget are already in their low 30s (Grandal) or just not very good (Benintendi).

There are multiple arguments being made here. Yes, if you went out and signed Greg Maddux to a 20 year contract right now, technically, he would be part of the "future". 

The most efficient use of a free agent signing is to sign them when you have a point of need on the win curve. The way teams are built now is that they sort through their internal options to determine where they have holes, or need depth. It now takes 85-88 wins to make the playoffs. If you are a .500 team, obtaining a 4-5 WAR player or two puts you over the win curve. That is the point where those wins are most valuable. If you're a 50 win team, adding 5 wins doesn't change your team's ability to make the post-season. 

So, what you are doing is adding 4-5 wins to a 50 win team. (Some here would argue they're a 41 win team, or less.) My highly optimistic view is that the Sox won't really be able to use those extra 5 wins to put them up over the win curve until 2027 at the earliest. Others here would argue that critical year might come in 2028 or maybe not even until 2030, either when Kim's skills are diminishing, or he's even gone. 

Pretend the Sox can contend in 2027. You're paying for 2 full years of 5 WAR production until his contribution puts you over the win curve, and probably for diminished production for a couple of years afterwards. The most efficient use is to hit the youngest and most productive seasons in the first years of his contract. Are you saying there won't be shortstops on the market in 2028? You seem like a fairly positive guy. The Sox will draft #10 this year, top 5 next year, and maybe #10-15 in 2027. Will there be no good shortstops available in the first round in those 3 drafts? Will we not get better at developing prospects and have a package to trade for a shortstop by then? 

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5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

So how is guessing years ahead of time better?  Are you even serious right now?  

Guessing? There is an immediate need right now and for the foreseeable future unless you disagree with majority of evaluators that say Montgomery is unlikely to stick at SS.

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5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Guessing? There is an immediate need right now and for the foreseeable future unless you disagree with majority of evaluators that say Montgomery is unlikely to stick at SS.

C. Monty's not going to play 3 games at shortstop, then move. He will play, at the very least, most of one season at SS. Monty should be earning a call-up in 2025. My hope is that Getz has the sense to wait until Monty is ready, then give him a good, long run before benching or demoting him if he is completely overmatched. 

Already, you have Kim competing with Monty for playing time at SS in his first year. 

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5 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

There are multiple arguments being made here. Yes, if you went out and signed Greg Maddux to a 20 year contract right now, technically, he would be part of the "future". 

The most efficient use of a free agent signing is to sign them when you have a point of need on the win curve. The way teams are built now is that they sort through their internal options to determine where they have holes, or need depth. It now takes 85-88 wins to make the playoffs. If you are a .500 team, obtaining a 4-5 WAR player or two puts you over the win curve. That is the point where those wins are most valuable. If you're a 50 win team, adding 5 wins doesn't change your team's ability to make the post-season. 

So, what you are doing is adding 4-5 wins to a 50 win team. (Some here would argue they're a 41 win team, or less.) My highly optimistic view is that the Sox won't really be able to use those extra 5 wins to put them up over the win curve until 2027 at the earliest. Others here would argue that critical year might come in 2028 or maybe not even until 2030, either when Kim's skills are diminishing, or he's even gone. 

Pretend the Sox can contend in 2027. You're paying for 2 full years of 5 WAR production until his contribution puts you over the win curve, and probably for diminished production for a couple of years afterwards. The most efficient use is to hit the youngest and most productive seasons in the first years of his contract. Are you saying there won't be shortstops on the market in 2028? You seem like a fairly positive guy. The Sox will draft #10 this year, top 5 next year, and maybe #10-15 in 2027. Will there be no good shortstops available in the first round in those 3 drafts? Will we not get better at developing prospects and have a package to trade for a shortstop by then? 

I guess I’m an advocate for signing quality big leaguers on the right side of 30 when it only costs money, they fill a need, and they’re actually within the Sox budget and won’t hurt future payroll flexibility regardless of where they are at in their competitiveness. Let’s be honest with ourselves here, the Sox aren’t signing guys like Ohtani, Soto, Burnes, Bregman, Snell, Alonso, Adames, etc. even if their contention window was open right now.

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7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

C. Monty's not going to play 3 games at shortstop, then move. He will play, at the very least, most of one season at SS. Monty should be earning a call-up in 2025. My hope is that Getz has the sense to wait until Monty is ready, then give him a good, long run before benching or demoting him if he is completely overmatched. 

Already, you have Kim competing with Monty for playing time at SS in his first year. 

And that’s fine. Colson can get 90 games at SS in 2025 (if he’s ready, which isn’t a given based on his 2024), and there’s still plenty of value in a guy like Kim bouncing between SS and 2b. Again, $12-14M AAV is barely above an average salary for 50% of the league.

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20 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Guessing? There is an immediate need right now and for the foreseeable future unless you disagree with majority of evaluators that say Montgomery is unlikely to stick at SS.

The whole roster is immediate need, and you might actually have the guy who can do it internally for tens of millions of dollars cheaper by the time this team has few enough holes to spend big money on immediate needs.  No more half assed roster building.  Take the pain now and give yourself the most chances to get it right instead of panic buying for a couple of more wins on a historically bad team.

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7 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The whole roster is immediate need, and you might actually have the guy who can do it internally for tens of millions of dollars cheaper by the time this team has few enough holes to spend big money on immediate needs.  No more half assed roster building.  Take the pain now and give yourself the most chances to get it right instead of panic buying for a couple of more wins on a historically bad team.

No more half assed roster building is exactly what you’re advocating for and what they did during the last rebuild. Waited to spend “big money” to sign Grandal, Kuechel, Pollock, etc. I’m not interested in doing that again. Start signing FA players to reasonable 3-5 year contracts a couple years before you’re ready to be competitive rather than rushing to sign the left over scraps once the contention window smacks you in the face. Hell, the Royals went on a mini spending spree last winter and turned a 56 win team into a 86 win team. Sometimes it doesn’t take much.

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16 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I guess I’m an advocate for signing quality big leaguers on the right side of 30 when it only costs money, they fill a need, and they’re actually within the Sox budget and won’t hurt future payroll flexibility regardless of where they are at in their competitiveness. Let’s be honest with ourselves here, the Sox aren’t signing guys like Ohtani, Soto, Burnes, Bregman, Snell, Alonso, Adames, etc. even if their contention window was open right now.

If Kim didn't have big questions about his injury recovery, he'd already be signed. So he's already a roll of the dice. But pretending he's going to be the same player as before, I don't see why he wouldn't sign a 3 year deal with an opt-out after this year, in which case, what's the point?

Hey, I get the argument of the guys here who scream for entertaining ballplayers to watch. I don't agree, but it's a valid argument. But that's not the argument you're making. You want him for 5 years, at a discount, when we've already amassed a glut of 50 FV prospects at his position(s). 

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6 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

No more half assed roster building is exactly what you’re advocating for and what they did during the last rebuild. Waited to spend “big money” to sign Grandal, Kuechel, Pollock, etc. I’m not interested in doing that again. Start signing FA players to reasonable 3-5 year contracts a couple years before you’re ready to be competitive rather than rushing to sign the left over scraps once the contention window smacks you in the face. Hell, the Royals went on a mini spending spree last winter and turned a 56 win team into a 86 win team. Sometimes it doesn’t take much.

The logic isn't terrible,  but does a guy like Kim really move the needle enough to make the risk worth it?

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1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

I’d rather have Romy Gonzalez than Rojas and it’s not even close.

I agree that signing middling vets to push out mildly interesting prospects and young controllable players is stupid for a team in the Sox situation. But Josh (not Luis) Rojas is an actual major leaguer. Romy is very likely not. 

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18 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

No more half assed roster building is exactly what you’re advocating for and what they did during the last rebuild. Waited to spend “big money” to sign Grandal, Kuechel, Pollock, etc. I’m not interested in doing that again. Start signing FA players to reasonable 3-5 year contracts a couple years before you’re ready to be competitive rather than rushing to sign the left over scraps once the contention window smacks you in the face. Hell, the Royals went on a mini spending spree last winter and turned a 56 win team into a 86 win team. Sometimes it doesn’t take much.

Because they had internal candidates who they had given playing time to and learn about.  They weren't signing free agents at their absolute bottom.  They also didn't block Witt years before, and insteadlet him play. Also the absurdity that this guy is going to be THE guy for the Sox in 4 or 5 years down the road is ridiculous.   If he was that good, he'd be a 9 figure player.

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2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I do not see how there's enough plate appearances to satisfy what the White Sox seem to need unless they have already thrown in the towel on Vargas. Between 3b and 2b that's perhaps 1300 plate appearances, 800 after we give Rojas 500. Vargas, Sosa, Ramos, and Meidroth - even if you throw in the DH slot some of the time, for 4 guys that's what, 250 plate appearances a piece? 300 max? Unless Sosa is your everyday SS to rope in a full additional position, this doesn't work. 

I fully agree with your main point, but Rojas will not be getting 500 plate appearances with us.  First and foremost, he won’t be here past Aug 1st unless a ton of things have gone wrong.  Second, he has strong platoon splits and should never play against LHP (outside of the occasional reliever).  I’d say 300 is a much more realistic expectation for him and hopefully it ends up less than that amount but again that’s my main concern with signing him.

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