White Sox agree to 1 year deal with INF Josh Rojas

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It appears Jerry has done a good job convincing Sox fans that a sub $60M payroll is acceptable for a major market team. It’s sad. It hasn’t amounted to much success yet but at least the Cubs are signing guys like Swanson and Bellinger during the early days of their rebuild to field a competitive team. Must be nice.

Sox gotta save money so the next time they're competitive they can not spend it.

[Chicago White Sox]

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

In terms of Meidroth, he has 558 plate appearances at AAA already. He put up a .437 OBP in those appearances. What exactly does a guy have to do to earn a callup? What are we expecting he needs to learn by getting more walks from AAA pitching?

If we treated Thorpe like this we'd call it lunacy, sending him back to AAA and hoping he gets 12 starts in the big leagues, but that's the plan for one of the guys we just acquired apparently.

The other thing with Meidroth is that’s he’s already a very fundamentally sound defender and doesn’t really need a ton more development there.  Honestly, his only two issues are limited range defensively and somewhat lacking power on the offensive side of things.  Unless they want to tweak his swing and hope for generating more power (which seems risky given his profile), there isn’t much for him to work on in the minors.  However, a month or two down in Charlotte wouldn’t be the worse of things to get him acclimated to the org and and buy an extra year of control.  And it allows Sosa a better opportunity to show he can handle 2B defensively and that he’s closer to the hitter we saw in September.

[southsider2k5]

8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sox gotta save money so the next time they're competitive they can not spend it.

Look when the argument is that we have no future star, and aren't signing a future star to get someone who doesn't even fit this teams competitive window anyway, why are we trying to block the guys we need to evaluate anyway?  If none of the guys being blocked are that good anyway, this signing isn't doing anything anyway.  Roster filler?  Sure.  But rushing to sign a non-superstar years before you need them?  Why? 

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

Romy actually outhit Rojas, plays more positions than him, and will cost 1/4 or 1/5 as much. FWAR is a counting stat and so it’s taking into account shorter season and which positions the guy is at - this will sometimes devalue a utility guy because he got some games backup up 1b or a corner OF spot.

For 10+ years the White Sox have been spending money on utility guys because they can’t develop their own ones cheaply. He’s exactly the kind of utility player the White Sox need this year, not great or anything, but cheap and able to play basically every IF or OF position including SS.

Romy did that hitting entirely against LHP and is unplayable against RHP.  He is not an option for the Rojas role at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I’d rather have Romy Gonzalez than Rojas and it’s not even close.

Rojas would be a massively negative value player playing against RHP at 3B or 2B.  No idea how you are making this comparison.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

Anyone using the word "efficiently" to describe the Sox need to be the cheapest team in baseball have had their brains broken by the misery. 

[Chicago White Sox]

57 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It appears Jerry has done a good job convincing Sox fans that a sub $60M payroll is acceptable for a major market team. It’s sad. It hasn’t amounted to much success yet but at least the Cubs are signing guys like Swanson and Bellinger during the early days of their rebuild to field a competitive team. Must be nice.

The key issue with your idea is signing free agents a couple years ahead of being competitive means they will likely be on the downswing by the time you are actually good.  Obviously there can be exceptions, but production is typically front loaded based on the age of most free agents.

I don’t hate the idea of adding Kim, but I think he will cost more than you’re thinking and will likely demand an opt-out.  And on top of that, I’d like to give Colson a real chance to stick at SS because it frees up 3B or 2B for other guys we already have in place at those spots worthy of opportunity.

Ultimately, I think we’re a year away from making these type of moves.

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Anyone using the word "efficiently" to describe the Sox need to be the cheapest team in baseball have had their brains broken by the misery. 

$60M is clearly absurd, but so is making a bunch of B & C tier signings early into what will be a very painful rebuild.

[WestEddy]

2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

and the 2003 Detroit Tigers made it to the World Series 3 years later. Another fluke I guess. But you can’t even luck into a “fluke” if you aren’t trying. Give me 9 starting position players that produce like Josh Rojas and Ha-Seong Kim and perhaps we will be the ones on the right side of a fluke season in the future. But not signing ANY meaningful free agents over the next few years will assure that the Sox are still “rebuilding” in 2027.

Okay, I tried. I don't really get along with ssY2K, but I'm pretty much aligned with him on this one. You have one argument pretty much shot down, and you don't even acknowledge that, you're just off to hurt feelings, or complaining about not signing free agents.

The White Sox are in a rebuild. The free agents they're signing are more about competently covering innings than winning games. The focus is on getting the "prospects" PAs and playing time. Guys like Rojas, Trauchman, Slater - they're just veteran bodies. When players like Montgomery, Quero, Teel, etc. get established, one would hope they would start spending on actual production major leaguers who could give value above and beyond their market rates. Whether they do spend will remain to be seen. They have before, they've just cheaped out, or over-invested in their bullpen. 

Signing Kim is a great idea. The Tigers or Royals should really look into that. They're at the point of their rebuild where Kim could put them over the top into the playoffs. 

Edited Saturday at 08:42 PM by WestEddy

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

$60M is clearly absurd, but so is making a bunch of B & C tier signings early into what will be a very painful rebuild.

I'd like to watch major league baseball next summer. The Sox can develop and not offend the game at the same time.

[Dick Allen]

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'd like to watch major league baseball next summer. The Sox can develop and not offend the game at the same time.

Kim alone isn't going to get them out of the basement and JR isn't going to spend the money needed to make them not embarrassingly bad. At least this seaon they should get a higher pick. I will never understand putting together a  team the GM said 110 losses wouldn't have surprised him when the highest you can draft is 10th. I can't wait for the team to be sold and common sense is used to clean house.

[Chicago White Sox]

39 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I'd like to watch major league baseball next summer. The Sox can develop and not offend the game at the same time.

What would you propose they do then?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

Okay, I tried. I don't really get along with ssY2K, but I'm pretty much aligned with him on this one. You have one argument pretty much shot down, and you don't even acknowledge that, you're just off to hurt feelings, or complaining about not signing free agents.

The White Sox are in a rebuild. The free agents they're signing are more about competently covering innings than winning games. The focus is on getting the "prospects" PAs and playing time. Guys like Rojas, Trauchman, Slater - they're just veteran bodies. When players like Montgomery, Quero, Teel, etc. get established, one would hope they would start spending on actual production major leaguers who could give value above and beyond their market rates. Whether they do spend will remain to be seen. They have before, they've just cheaped out, or over-invested in their bullpen. 

Signing Kim is a great idea. The Tigers or Royals should really look into that. They're at the point of their rebuild where Kim could put them over the top into the playoffs. 

And the Cubs signed Suzuki after the 2021 season and then Bellinger and Swanson after the 2022 season. They were very much still rebuilding and more than 1 or 3 moves away from playoffs. They lost 91 games in 2021 and 88 games in 2022. But you know what? They’ve at least been competitive the last two seasons since signing those guys, playing meaningful baseball deep into the season. The bar is so low with the Sox right now that I’d be thrilled with an 83 win season and meaningful baseball in August/September.

Edited Saturday at 11:04 PM by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[46DidIt]

Call me crazy but I don’t think adding good players is such a bad idea. The entire team is a hole, so worrying about blocking prospects seems kind of absurd. If you signed a couple guys like Kim then it would be Rojas, Vaughn, Tachman, etc potentially blocking them,  not the better players. Do the Sox actually have 13+ prospects who will convert into legit mlb batters over next 2-3 years to cover every roster spot so that we have to worry about them being blocked by signing a couple quality players now? I seriously doubt it

[Chicago White Sox]

Steamer 600 projections based on the lineup at Roster Resource post the addition of Rojas:

1. Tauchman, RF* | 109 wRC+ | 1.8 fWAR
2. Robert, CF | 103 wRC+ | 2.7 fWAR
3. Benintendi, LF* | 104 wRC+ | 0.9 fWAR
4. Vaughn, 1B | 110 wRC+ | 1.1 fWAR
5. Rojas, 3B* | 95 wRC+ | 1.9 fWAR
6. Sosa, 2B | 95 wRC+ | 1.7 fWAR
7. Vargas, DH | 103 wRC+ | 1.8 fWAR
8. Baldwin, SS# | 92 wRC+ | 1.9 fWAR
9. Lee, CA | 73 wRC+ | 0.1 fWAR

Obviously these would be very different with real playing time projections and Vargas is inflated if he’s a primary DH, but this level of output would be leagues better than we got last year.  I will also note that both Quero & Teel project as 2+ win players, so our biggest black hole will have reinforcements pretty early into the season most likely.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

37 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What would you propose they do then?

How about pretend like they’re at least trying to be somewhat competitive? Sign Kim, Santander, and Hoffman. they’d still be rocking a lowly $100m payroll even if they kept Robert. 

[PaleAleSox]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Steamer 600 projections based on the lineup at Roster Resource post the addition of Rojas:

1. Tauchman, RF* | 109 wRC+ | 1.8 fWAR
2. Robert, CF | 103 wRC+ | 2.7 fWAR
3. Benintendi, LF* | 104 wRC+ | 0.9 fWAR
4. Vaughn, 1B | 110 wRC+ | 1.1 fWAR
5. Rojas, 3B* | 95 wRC+ | 1.9 fWAR
6. Sosa, 2B | 95 wRC+ | 1.7 fWAR
7. Vargas, DH | 103 wRC+ | 1.8 fWAR
8. Baldwin, SS# | 92 wRC+ | 1.9 fWAR
9. Lee, CA | 73 wRC+ | 0.1 fWAR

Obviously these would be very different with real playing time projections and Vargas is inflated if he’s a primary DH, but this level of output would be leagues better than we got last year.  I will also note that both Quero & Teel project as 2+ win players, so our biggest black hole will have reinforcements pretty early into the season most likely.

It would be basically impossible to be as bad as they were last year. Everything went wrong with a manager who was doing more harm than good. 

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

How about pretend like they’re at least trying to be somewhat competitive? Sign Kim, Santander, and Hoffman. they’d still be rocking a lowly $100m payroll even if they kept Robert. 

“The money will be spent…

Eventually…

No seriously…

We promise…”

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And the Cubs signed Suzuki after the 2021 season and then Bellinger and Swanson after the 2022 season. They were very much still rebuilding and more than 1 or 3 moves away from playoffs. They lost 91 games in 2021 and 88 games in 2022. But you know what? They’ve at least been competitive the last two seasons since signing those guys, playing meaningful baseball deep into the season. The bar is so low with the Sox right now that I’d be thrilled with an 83 win season and meaningful baseball in August/September.

Losing 90 games is not the same as losing 120 games though.  Signing Kim and another B tier free agent isn’t vaulting us anywhere close to 83 wins.  I get the desire to want more interesting baseball, but trying to take shortcuts won’t work where we’re currently at the process.  I think if enough goes right this coming season, then we start to see some legitimate moves next offseason.  Until then, just hope some of our fringier, but major league ready prospects turn into something useful because otherwise it’s going to be an ugly season.

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

How about pretend like they’re at least trying to be somewhat competitive? Sign Kim, Santander, and Hoffman. they’d still be rocking a lowly $100m payroll even if they kept Robert. 

And what happens when these guys start regressing in 2027?  Will that still be worth turning a 50 win team into a 60 win team?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Losing 90 games is not the same as losing 120 games though.  Signing Kim and another B tier free agent isn’t vaulting us anywhere close to 83 wins.  I get the desire to want more interesting baseball, but trying to take shortcuts won’t work where we’re currently at the process.  I think if enough goes right this coming season, then we start to see some legitimate moves next offseason.  Until then, just hope some of our fringier, but major league ready prospects turn into something useful because otherwise it’s going to be an ugly season.

I’m not expecting them to go from 41 wins to 83 wins in one season. But at this point, 65-70 wins in 2025 would be real progress. Then you add more pieces while developing the kids and 83 wins is within striking distance by 2026. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

“The money will be spent…

Eventually…

No seriously…

We promise…”

We practically spent $200M on payroll during the peak of our window.  Money was spent…it was just allocated extremely poorly.

[46DidIt]

Yeah but if you could sign Kim and cut, for example, Vaughn, you wouldn’t prefer that? Then the blocking question is out the window, but now you have a better player along with the twelve other roster spits for the 12 prospects that we’re worried about blocking

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And what happens when these guys start regressing in 2027?  Will that still be worth turning a 50 win team into a 60 win team?

Plug in Santander and Kim into your lineup and that starting 9 projects to around 16 fWAR. Tigers and Royals entire offense accounted for 19 and 20 fWAR in 2024, respectively. I doubt the Sox pitching will be as good as the Royals and Tigers were but it’s not hard to envision a 65-70 win team on the upswing with a couple meaningful additions to the lineup.

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We practically spent $200M on payroll during the peak of our window.  Money was spent…it was just allocated extremely poorly.

$200 million?  Big deal.  Machado signed for more than $200 million alone.  That wasn’t enough back then and definitely isn’t enough now.  Especially not after going years with a completely stripped payroll and banking the money.

Take a look at what the Cubs have spent over the past ten years, and they still get ripped on for not trying to win.

Edited Saturday at 11:25 PM by WhiteSox2023