White Sox agree to 1 year deal with INF Josh Rojas

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

I’m not expecting them to go from 41 wins to 83 wins in one season. But at this point, 65-70 wins in 2025 would be real progress. Then you add more pieces while developing the kids and 83 wins is within striking distance by 2026. 

Paying market value for wins isn’t progress though.  If you try to build out a core in free agency, then it’s almost certainly going to fail.  You have to have some semblance of our core and right now we have nothing.  That’s why any talk of achieving 83 wins by 2026 is wild to me.  We don’t have a single player we can say with a high degree of certainty will be a key contributor for 2026 outside of Robert and even then there are questions.  We are basically starting from zero and that means it will take multiple years just to get to any level of respectability.  I know that sucks, but it’s the unfortunate reality we face.

[Chicago White Sox]

9 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

$200 million?  Big deal.  Machado signed for more than $200 million alone.  That wasn’t enough back then and definitely isn’t enough now.  Especially not after going years with a completely stripped payroll and banking the money.

Take a look at what the Cubs have spent over the past ten years, and they still get ripped on for not trying to win.

Are you comparing the Cubs’ revenue profile to ours?  We can’t spend what they spend…full stop.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Paying market value for wins isn’t progress though.  If you try to build out a core in free agency, then it’s almost certainly going to fail.  You have to have some semblance of our core and right now we have nothing.  That’s why any talk of achieving 83 wins by 2026 is wild to me.  We don’t have a single player we can say with a high degree of certainty will be a key contributor for 2026 outside of Robert and even then there are questions.  We are basically starting from zero and that means it will take multiple years just to get to any level of respectability.  I know that sucks, but it’s the unfortunate reality we face.

Exactly, they have nothing. So what’s the harm in adding quality major league players? With the new anti tanking rules it doesn’t help as much to lose 100+ games every year like the Orioles did for awhile.

Edited Saturday at 11:34 PM by JUSTgottaBELIEVE

[WhiteSox2023]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Are you comparing the Cubs’ revenue profile to ours?  We can’t spend what they spend…full stop.

No, but the Sox could have spent more than $200 million.  If they supposedly made a $250 million offer to Machado and missed out, where did that additional $50 million go?

[Chicago White Sox]

21 minutes ago, 46DidIt said:

Yeah but if you could sign Kim and cut, for example, Vaughn, you wouldn’t prefer that? Then the blocking question is out the window, but now you have a better player along with the twelve other roster spits for the 12 prospects that we’re worried about blocking

Who is Vaughn blocking?

[Chicago White Sox]

8 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Exactly, they have nothing. So what’s the harm in adding quality major league players? With the new anti tanking rules it doesn’t help as much to lose 100+ games every year like the Orioles did for awhile.

True, but we’re coming off 41 wins.  This isn’t normal bad, we’re talking epic bad and unfortunately we’re paying the price for that now.  And like I said, adding expensive multiyear free agents becomes problematic when they are no longer living up to their contracts when we are finally good.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

No, but the Sox could have spent more than $200 million.  If they supposedly made a $250 million offer to Machado and missed out, where did that additional $50 million go?

$200M was an annual payroll figure, $250M was to be paid out over eight years.  You are comparing apples to oranges.

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Who is Vaughn blocking?

Well clearing him out is one way to have Vargas and Rojas both in the infield.

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Well clearing him out is one way to have Vargas and Rojas both in the infield.

We don’t have a DH at the moment, so both him and Rojas can play.  Maybe it would allow Sosa to DH more, but I’d prefer him to get most of his reps in the field because the concerns with his glove.

[Chicago White Sox]

I’m still blown away that Witt put up 10 fWAR.  I knew he had a great season, but didn’t realize it was that insane.  Can’t wait for Walker Jenkins to make the show and give the Twins their own superstar.  Just wild how badly the draft has worked in our favor since the first rebuild, both in terms of bad selections when we actually had high picks and general bad luck when it comes to the entire lottery process.  Got to love being a fan of this god forsaken franchise.

[caulfield12]

25 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m still blown away that Witt put up 10 fWAR.  I knew he had a great season, but didn’t realize it was that insane.  Can’t wait for Walker Jenkins to make the show and give the Twins their own superstar.  Just wild how badly the draft has worked in our favor since the first rebuild, both in terms of bad selections when we actually had high picks and general bad luck when it comes to the entire lottery process.  Got to love being a fan of this god forsaken franchise.

Even the Guardians have made mistakes and they're still trucking along despite the Gimenez premature extension (dumped) and McKenzie falling apart.  Having defense speed execution and a bullpen goes a long way in the Central.  Is crazy if you like at their rotation three years ago compared to 24/25.  Never seem to miss a beat coming up with starters.

[WhiteSox2023]

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m still blown away that Witt put up 10 fWAR.  I knew he had a great season, but didn’t realize it was that insane.  Can’t wait for Walker Jenkins to make the show and give the Twins their own superstar.  Just wild how badly the draft has worked in our favor since the first rebuild, both in terms of bad selections when we actually had high picks and general bad luck when it comes to the entire lottery process.  Got to love being a fan of this god forsaken franchise.

I think it’s funny to see how often the Sox are looking to trade their top guys for prospects that were drafted after their pick.

I just posted an article about how the Sox wanted 1B Bryce Eldridge from the Giants in a potential Crochet package.  The Giants took Eldridge one pick after the Sox took Jacob Gonzalez.  🤢 🤮 

[Chicago White Sox]

25 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think it’s funny to see how often the Sox are looking to trade their top guys for prospects that were drafted after their pick.

I just posted an article about how the Sox wanted 1B Bryce Eldridge from the Giants in a potential Crochet package.  The Giants took Eldridge one pick after the Sox took Jacob Gonzalez.  🤢 🤮 

And the pick before was Teel.  Talk about a disaster…lol.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And the Cubs signed Suzuki after the 2021 season and then Bellinger and Swanson after the 2022 season. They were very much still rebuilding and more than 1 or 3 moves away from playoffs. They lost 91 games in 2021 and 88 games in 2022. But you know what? They’ve at least been competitive the last two seasons since signing those guys, playing meaningful baseball deep into the season. The bar is so low with the Sox right now that I’d be thrilled with an 83 win season and meaningful baseball in August/September.

91 losses is still 30 full games better than the Sox.  The Cubs also improved from 91 losses to 79 losses from 21 to 24, because of their half assed approach of avoiding the top of their market despite being a top tier revenue franchise. 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And the pick before was Teel.  Talk about a disaster…lol.

Well, I won’t blame them for that.  Red Sox took him a pick earlier.  But it sure goes to show that the Sox farm system could be better than it is and that the Sox need to start drafting position players a lot better.  Eldridge over Gonzalez would look great right about now, and of course what position do the Sox need with Vaughn being a bust?

[Balta1701]

3 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’m still blown away that Witt put up 10 fWAR.  I knew he had a great season, but didn’t realize it was that insane.  Can’t wait for Walker Jenkins to make the show and give the Twins their own superstar.  Just wild how badly the draft has worked in our favor since the first rebuild, both in terms of bad selections when we actually had high picks and general bad luck when it comes to the entire lottery process.  Got to love being a fan of this god forsaken franchise.

I’m sure there’s some of this built in but I Hate the phrasing here, as though it’s totally an accident that the White Sox have drafted and developed so poorly. Yeah they missed out on Witt, 7 guys taken after Vaughn have already made all star teams.
 

It’s not how badly the draft worked out. It’s how badly they handles their choices and their development. 

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I’m sure there’s some of this built in but I Hate the phrasing here, as though it’s totally an accident that the White Sox have drafted and developed so poorly. Yeah they missed out on Witt, 7 guys taken after Vaughn have already made all star teams.
 

It’s not how badly the draft worked out. It’s how badly they handles their choices and their development. 

I literally ripped their selections when they had high picks.  Not sure what you’re looking for here.

[Balta1701]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I literally ripped their selections when they had high picks.  Not sure what you’re looking for here.

The phrase “how badly it worked out in our favor” makes sense if say in 2024 the top 5 picks are all Allstars and Smith is the first bust with no other successes later. It makes it sound like bad luck, like poor Hahn and Getz they couldn’t possibly have done better due to the lottery. 

”How badly the White Sox handled their drafting and minor league development” is the correct context.

[Chicago White Sox]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The phrase “how badly it worked out in our favor” makes sense if say in 2024 the top 5 picks are all Allstars and Smith is the first bust with no other successes later. It makes it sound like bad luck, like poor Hahn and Getz they couldn’t possibly have done better due to the lottery. 

”How badly the White Sox handled their drafting and minor league development” is the correct context.

I’m saying we’ve been royally fucked from both poor process and bad luck.  Not all fanbases have to deal with both like us.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

16 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

What would you propose they do then?

I laid out my plan in the other thread as to what I would have done.

Compile lottery picks, continue to invest in development, and spend 130+ million to put MLB talent on the field.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

15 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We practically spent $200M on payroll during the peak of our window.  Money was spent…it was just allocated extremely poorly.

Ahh see, this is where they're getting you. Don't let them trick you with their shenanigans. The White Sox have had periods where they were top 10 in spending when they were winning - this has been the case for much of my lifetime. They've been top 10 in spending 7 times since 2000 and only ONE time post rebuild.

The main difference is this regime committed to a rebuild where they spent NO money.

They had three years of payrolls below 100 million after having surpassed 100 million in 2007. They saved probably 80-100 million plus in those years then they came out and they spent only on internal players and ran one year with a top 10 payroll. They were 26, 29, 25th and 20th in baseball in payroll during the rebuild and coming out of it.

They then ran 15th, 7th and 14th During their window where they were supposed to spend the money they saved. They should have spent way more money than they ever had, relative to the league, but instead they just returned to their standard level of spending (relative to the league) that had already existed for two decades.

Edited yesterday at 03:04 PM by Look at Ray Ray Run

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

21 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Ahh see, this is where they're getting you. Don't let them trick you with their shenanigans. The White Sox have had periods where they were top 10 in spending when they were winning - this has been the case for much of my lifetime. They've been top 10 in spending 7 times since 2000 and only ONE time post rebuild.

The main difference is this regime committed to a rebuild where they spent NO money.

They had three years of payrolls below 100 million after having surpassed 100 million in 2007. They saved probably 80-100 million plus in those years then they came out and they spent only on internal players and ran one year with a top 10 payroll. They were 26, 29, 25th and 20th in baseball in payroll during the rebuild and coming out of it.

They then ran 15th, 7th and 14th During their window where they were supposed to spend the money they saved. They should have spent way more money than they ever had, relative to the league, but instead they just returned to their standard level of spending (relative to the league) that had already existed for two decades.

It really is sad. People contending that signing a guy projected to make $15M AAV or less is too expensive for a roster with a current payroll of $60M. wtf. Honestly, there is no reason the Sox couldn’t easily afford signing Kim, Alonso, and Santander. Not saying they’d be a contender if they did but they’d have an actual mlb lineup then and it would generate some actual excitement around the team unlike whatever this is. Payroll would still be less than $120M, well below league average.

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

It really is sad. People contending that signing a guy projected to make $15M AAV or less is too expensive for a roster with a current payroll of $60M. wtf. Honestly, there is no reason the Sox couldn’t easily afford signing Kim, Alonso, and Santander. Not saying they’d be a contender if they did but they’d have an actual mlb lineup then and it would generate some actual excitement around the team unlike whatever this is. Payroll would still be less than $120M, well below league average.

Expensive?  No.

A waste?  Absolutely. 

Blocking key players ? 110%

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

5 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Expensive?  No.

A waste?  Absolutely. 

Blocking key players ? 110%

A waste of what? Jerry’s dollars? You’re worried about his money?

[Tony]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Expensive?  No.

A waste?  Absolutely. 

Blocking key players ? 110%

I also disagree with this. As Ray pointed out, if there was history to tell us “ok the payroll is going to be historically low but when guys start to develop, that saved money is going right back into the payroll” but that’s not how it works. It’s just going into the pockets of ownership.

This team still has no foundation. Is signing Santander going to make a Sox a contender? Absolutely not. Is he going to make the lineup better? Yes, and he’s not going to be blocking anyone, because there is no one to block. 
 

There were a few boobs here saying “there is no difference in losing 100 games and 120 games.” Which most of us,  myself included, strongly disagreed with. But that works both ways. There is a difference between winning 60 games and 75 games. And I think a lot of fans are starved, and deserve some competitive baseball on the South Side.

The point is adding some actual talent to the 2025 team shouldn’t be a bad thing. It simply costs money, and shouldn’t take away from the efforts of actually rebuilding the right way. You should be able to do two things at once. The Sox probably can’t because they’re incompetent, but that’s also not an excuse for them.