White Sox agree to 1 year deal with INF Josh Rojas

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, Fielder Jones said:

we have the learned helplessness that assumes we could never develop a nobody into an everyday player. the sox dont do it. but other orgs do! i dont know if Baldwin is one but we have to start turning some zero values into positive value at some point. tampa is not sustaining their success with blue chippers every year. There's some of that but there's also developed homegrown talent behind it as well. You need all angles of it

It's really scary that Sox management doesn't seem to believe in their own ability to develop nobodies either as now we are sending prospects and signing other people's nobodies.  The signing part doesn't bother me as bad as giving up prospects for them.  They seem to have zero faith in their own people's ability to create players, even sending out kids they just drafted.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…you are guessing too.  The only difference is I’m actually considering where he’s played at in recent years to make an educated guess and you are just going with what’s easiest to justify the move and play devil’s advocate.  I don’t think he’s a bad player, but I wouldn’t be signing a guy who takes away playing time from the only few positional areas we actually have some internal options.

And Brooks Baldwin is a very legitimate prospect who shot through the system last year.  No idea where you came up with that notion, but he’s a dude worthy of a ton of playing time next year.

22 games into the 2024 season, Danny Mendick became the starting 3B, after Moncada was injured, and Sosa/Shewmake exposed themselves as "not the answer". They ended up using 9 different players at 3B. They grabbed Jacob Amaya off the waiver wire, and he quickly became their starting shortstop. 

We're talking about the same group of players this year. I don't think anybody will be taking playing time away from anybody else. 

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's really scary that Sox management doesn't seem to believe in their own ability to develop nobodies either as now we are sending prospects and signing other people's nobodies.  The signing part doesn't bother me as bad as giving up prospects for them.  They seem to have zero faith in their own people's ability to create players, even sending out kids they just drafted.

If they really had any degree of confidence in those Steamer projections for their young prospects...no reason to make this move.

Or they simply don't believe they have a single above average defender at any of those infield positions, either.

This is more about avoiding being the worst team in baseball history again... rather than building for the future.

[WestEddy]

14 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Baldwin has solid tools across the board. His ceiling is big league regular. Will he reach it? Who knows? But he definitely has the talent to start sometime in his career. He absolutely dominated a great pitcher’s league in AA.

I've seen Ben Zobrist mentioned as Baldwin's ceiling. I think that may be fanciful, but the guy just "picked up" shortstop, and became a shortstop. He hit his way out of Birmingham. If his bat matures, I think he can be a big league regular. 

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It's really scary that Sox management doesn't seem to believe in their own ability to develop nobodies either as now we are sending prospects and signing other people's nobodies.  The signing part doesn't bother me as bad as giving up prospects for them.  They seem to have zero faith in their own people's ability to create players, even sending out kids they just drafted.

The White Sox are now getting feelers on the availability of Davis Martin, a 14th rounder (2018) that the Sox developed into a legitimate option in their rotation this season. 

Mason Adams is probably the next name who will crash the rotation, after Bush, Nastrini, Eder and Iriarte. He's a 13th rounder (2022) the Sox developed. 

I'm pretty sure the Sox are comfortable in their ability to develop nobodies as viable major leaguers. 

[Dick Allen]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

22 games into the 2024 season, Danny Mendick became the starting 3B, after Moncada was injured, and Sosa/Shewmake exposed themselves as "not the answer". They ended up using 9 different players at 3B. They grabbed Jacob Amaya off the waiver wire, and he quickly became their starting shortstop. 

We're talking about the same group of players this year. I don't think anybody will be taking playing time away from anybody else. 

I disagree. At some point Montgomery is going to get a shot. Ramos is now a guy who needs to be evaluated at the big league level. Same with Vargas. The little guy from Boston should be ready at some point. Sosa should get ABs. Baldwin as well. Amaya should get a shot.  If you're going to suck, play the young guys. There was no reason for Tommy Pham, and I doubt this guy will be as good as he was,  in 2024. He played fine, but the younger guys should have played more.

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The White Sox are now getting feelers on the availability of Davis Martin, a 14th rounder (2018) that the Sox developed into a legitimate option in their rotation this season. 

Mason Adams is probably the next name who will crash the rotation, after Bush, Nastrini, Eder and Iriarte. He's a 13th rounder (2022) the Sox developed. 

I'm pretty sure the Sox are comfortable in their ability to develop nobodies as viable major leaguers. 

Which is why they keep blocking them and trading them away, to much fanfare.

[TaylorStSox]

18 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I've seen Ben Zobrist mentioned as Baldwin's ceiling. I think that may be fanciful, but the guy just "picked up" shortstop, and became a shortstop. He hit his way out of Birmingham. If his bat matures, I think he can be a big league regular. 

Zobrist was 6'4 225. He was a big, strong dude. Baldwin is 6'0 175 soaking wet.

[Dick Allen]

12 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The White Sox are now getting feelers on the availability of Davis Martin, a 14th rounder (2018) that the Sox developed into a legitimate option in their rotation this season. 

Mason Adams is probably the next name who will crash the rotation, after Bush, Nastrini, Eder and Iriarte. He's a 13th rounder (2022) the Sox developed. 

I'm pretty sure the Sox are comfortable in their ability to develop nobodies as viable major leaguers. 

They just set the all time record for losses. If the bolded is true, they are not living in a reality based world.

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

I disagree. At some point Montgomery is going to get a shot. Ramos is now a guy who needs to be evaluated at the big league level. Same with Vargas. The little guy from Boston should be ready at some point. Sosa should get ABs. Baldwin as well. Amaya should get a shot.  If you're going to suck, play the young guys. There was no reason for Tommy Pham, and I doubt this guy will be as good as he was,  in 2024. He played fine, but the younger guys should have played more.

Rojas is depth. Injuries happen. Amaya isn't anything beyond a utility player. I agree that Ramos should get a shot, and C. Monty probably will have every opportunity to open the season at SS. But as we've just seen, Sosa/Baldwin/Ramos/Amaya/Vargas are all certainly capable of sh*tting the bed for a month. They're going to go through a bunch of players, again. Rojas is just one more. 

[Fielder Jones]

We have this belief that 'oh give that guy 500 PAs he can prove he's for real'. when in reality a bunch of guys end up sharing at bats on bad teams and there's going to be time to go around. and sosa probably wont even be in this org much longer b/c he's out of options so that'll be one down.

good teams in 2025 arent even making everyone prove they are 500-PA-good, even after they do it! good teams will platoon the spots that benefit from platooning and frankly i'm ready for that in RF since we have tried to anoint a RF with baseless belief far too many a time

Edited Thursday at 10:13 PM by Fielder Jones

[WestEddy]

4 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They just set the all time record for losses. If the bolded is true, they are not living in a reality based world.

Then why should Montgomery "get a shot"? If the White Sox can't develop players, then they should go out and sign 12 more Josh Rojases. 

[Dick Allen]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Rojas is depth. Injuries happen. Amaya isn't anything beyond a utility player. I agree that Ramos should get a shot, and C. Monty probably will have every opportunity to open the season at SS. But as we've just seen, Sosa/Baldwin/Ramos/Amaya/Vargas are all certainly capable of sh*tting the bed for a month. They're going to go through a bunch of players, again. Rojas is just one more. 

The thing is, there were a couple of teams in on him, at least with the rumors. Did the Sox offer him more money? Maybe, but significantly more? Kind of doubtful. I'm guessing they offered him playing time. But you never know. I was watching MLBN a couple of years ago and Kevin Millar was talking about fringe players being free agents. He said panic starts to set in right around Christmas when you aren't signed. It could just be this guy didn't want to wait because he might have had to sign a minor league deal. 

[caulfield12]

50 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

The White Sox are now getting feelers on the availability of Davis Martin, a 14th rounder (2018) that the Sox developed into a legitimate option in their rotation this season. 

Mason Adams is probably the next name who will crash the rotation, after Bush, Nastrini, Eder and Iriarte. He's a 13th rounder (2022) the Sox developed. 

I'm pretty sure the Sox are comfortable in their ability to develop nobodies as viable major leaguers. 

Calls are even coming in for the versatile Scholtens.

[caulfield12]

41 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Then why should Montgomery "get a shot"? If the White Sox can't develop players, then they should go out and sign 12 more Josh Rojases. 

You're already forgetting Slater and Tauchman...so 3/12=25%.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

Baldwin is a nice story, but he's really not much of a prospect. His ceiling is backup middle infielder. He doesn't have a single loud tool. Again, nice story, but not much of a prospect.

There's really no issue in signing a very good defensive veteran IF to this team, especially when you consider the youth of the pitching staff.

Fully disagree on Baldwin.  Dude has a plus hit tool, plus speed, some power, and is a very smart, fundamentally sound, and versatile defender.  To say he’s not much of a prospect is laughable.  The only reason you’re not seeing him on prospect lists is he flew through the upper minors last year, made the majors, and quickly lost his eligibility.  Does he have a superstar ceiling?  No, but he’s a dude with enough ability to be an above average regular if all goes right.

Also, how long do you expect this rebuild to take?  When can we can start trying to develop some positional players?  Do we have to wait until Schultz, Smith, & Taylor are fully developed since those are our three high ceiling arms?  Right now, we literally have zero established building blocks on this offense if you assume Robert will eventually be traded.  At some point, we have to actually commit to playing the young bats.  Last year we gave a ton of mediocre vets to buy some time until the younger players were ready, but we are now past that point IMO.

[PaleAleSox]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fully disagree on Baldwin.  Dude has a plus hit tool, plus speed, some power, and is a very smart, fundamentally sound, and versatile defender.  To say he’s not much of a prospect is laughable.  The only reason you’re not seeing him on prospect lists is he flew through the upper minors last year, made the majors, and quickly lost his eligibility.  Does he have a superstar ceiling?  No, but he’s a dude with enough ability to be an above average regular if all goes right.

Also, how long do you expect this rebuild to take?  When can we can start trying to develop some positional players?  Do we have to wait until Schultz, Smith, & Taylor are fully developed since those are our three high ceiling arms?  Right now, we literally have zero established building blocks on this offense if you assume Robert will eventually be traded.  At some point, we have to actually commit to playing the young bats.  Last year we gave a ton of mediocre vets to buy some time until the younger players were ready, but we are now past that point IMO.

They added one guy who will play all around the field. I don't think that is disrupting stuff that much. The other two are platooning in RF where we have absolutely no one (since the team hates Colas).

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Fully disagree on Baldwin.  Dude has a plus hit tool, plus speed, some power, and is a very smart, fundamentally sound, and versatile defender.  To say he’s not much of a prospect is laughable.  The only reason you’re not seeing him on prospect lists is he flew through the upper minors last year, made the majors, and quickly lost his eligibility.  Does he have a superstar ceiling?  No, but he’s a dude with enough ability to be an above average regular if all goes right.

Also, how long do you expect this rebuild to take?  When can we can start trying to develop some positional players?  Do we have to wait until Schultz, Smith, & Taylor are fully developed since those are our three high ceiling arms?  Right now, we literally have zero established building blocks on this offense if you assume Robert will eventually be traded.  At some point, we have to actually commit to playing the young bats.  Last year we gave a ton of mediocre vets to buy some time until the younger players were ready, but we are now past that point IMO.

It's the continued gaslighting of Sox fans who are supposed to believe that we fixed all of the drafting, scouting, and development problems in the organization with all of the new hires, titles, and the rest, while also believing that needing to bring a bunch of bad to mediocre players at the expense of recent draft picks and prospects, as well as the current arrivals playing time, because they aren't good enough to be developed into usable major league pieces.

At best this is a 4-5 year process, but if this group still doesn't have faith in their own ability to train up their own people, this is going to be a lost decade until someone takes over for Jerry and puts real adults in charge.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

This guy likely signed for like $2M, barely above league minimum. It has no bearing on whether or not they sign a free agent reliever. And, truthfully, what type of free agent reliever with closing ability are you expecting for less than $5M?

MLBTR was projecting $4.3M for Rojas, so assuming it will be for more than you’re thinking.  Regardless, relievers are volatile.  Plenty of guys with past success have a bad season or were injured and have to take a prove it deal.  Go look at last offseason and there are plenty examples right in that price range.

[caulfield12]

28 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

MLBTR was projecting $4.3M for Rojas, so assuming it will be for more than you’re thinking.  Regardless, relievers are volatile.  Plenty of guys with past success have a bad season or were injured and have to take a prove it deal.  Go look at last offseason and there are plenty examples right in that price range.

This where you need KW...Jenks Sergio Santos Matt Thornton Jesse Crain Damaso Marte.

[caulfield12]

32 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

MLBTR was projecting $4.3M for Rojas, so assuming it will be for more than you’re thinking.  Regardless, relievers are volatile.  Plenty of guys with past success have a bad season or were injured and have to take a prove it deal.  Go look at last offseason and there are plenty examples right in that price range.

Nicky Lopez reminiscent even in that extra $300k.  Only 1-2 million off without the Naperville or whatever local connections.  Or was that Nick Massey?

Edited Thursday at 11:33 PM by caulfield12

[PaleAleSox]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

This where you need KW...Jenks Sergio Santos Matt Thornton Jesse Crain Damaso Marte.

He also put together the 2007 bullpen which was an incredibly painful thing to watch. 

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

22 games into the 2024 season, Danny Mendick became the starting 3B, after Moncada was injured, and Sosa/Shewmake exposed themselves as "not the answer". They ended up using 9 different players at 3B. They grabbed Jacob Amaya off the waiver wire, and he quickly became their starting shortstop. 

We're talking about the same group of players this year. I don't think anybody will be taking playing time away from anybody else. 

We are not talking about the same players.  The minor leaguers have gained a full year of experience and some of them have even take some initial lumps in the majors.  There are simply more quality, major league ready options now at 3B & 2B than there were last year.  Additionally, Meidroth was acquired after putting up a 131 wRC+ in a full season at AAA and Vargas was acquired as our key deadline piece who has already dominated the minors.  These guys and a couple others need to actually play so we can start assessing if they will be viable pieces for the future or if we need to find other solutions at those spots.

[caulfield12]

20 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

We are not talking about the same players.  The minor leaguers have gained a full year of experience and some of them have even take some initial lumps in the majors.  There are simply more quality, major league ready options now at 3B & 2B than there were last year.  Additionally, Meidroth was acquired after putting up a 131 wRC+ in a full season at AAA and Vargas was acquired as our key deadline piece who has already dominated the minors.  These guys and a couple others need to actually play so we can start assessing if they will be viable pieces for the future or if we need to find other solutions at those spots.

And Baldwin wasn't on anyone's radar screen a year ago.

Ofc, our #15 first rounder wasn't on the verge of non-prospect status, either (although he too was likeliest to end up at 2B, eventually, due to his lack of carrying physical tools in terms of range/arm.)

 

[Baron]