Would we be

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

They should have signed a big time 1b.

Chris Davis STILL haunts that franchise lol.

More of an impact than Navarro, Dunn and Danks combined to their collective psyches.

[Chicago White Sox]

59 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

All I'm sayin. Ive got two young kids who love baseball. But the Sox have only moderately held their attention. I grew up in the early 90s watching my family live and die with every pitch. Id like to share that with them before they get tired of the shittiness and move on to other teams. This crap is having a much bigger effect on the long term fanbase than Jerry realizes. The hell with down the road. Our last rebuild was interrupted by an f'n pandemic. Who knows what 5 years brings. I want watchable baseball from my favorite team. 

I feel you brother…I am in the same boat.  But giving Santander 5/$100M is not the answer.  Three years from now people will likely be bitching about him being an albatross that prevents us from upgrading an OF spot.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

How are three B tier free agents, one who will miss a chunk of the season, turn a 41 win team into a .500 team?  Again, the current talent level is atrocious and we aren’t lucking into anything next regardless of who we sign.

I totally agree a $60M payroll is absurd, but spending it on guys who will likely begin regressing on day 1 and will cost on picks and slot dollars on top of it isn’t the right strategy.  There are long-term consequences to these type of signings and now is not the time to incur them.

That's 40 wins we need to make up just to get to .500.  a bunch of C list free agents isn't doing that.  This team has more holes than a prairie dog infestation.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Chris Davis STILL haunts that franchise lol.

More of an impact than Navarro, Dunn and Danks combined to their collective psyches.

Orioles were once a great franchise. When I was growing up in the 90s, they were drawing 3M+ fans in the late 90s and early 2000s. Then they went on an extended draught and gradually their fanbase deteriorated. They had some success between 2012 and 2016 and the fans slowly came back. Attendance peaked at 2.46M in 2014 after bottoming at 1.73M in 2010 but then shortly thereafter they started intentionally tanking again. I believe those extended periods of shiftiness have permanently damaged the fanbase. The Sox have been doing the same thing but the fanbase destruction is really accelerating right now. All this be patient talk isn’t going to work when the fanbase is falling off a cliff. There’s more at risk here than I think lost realize based on the comments I’ve seen on this forum. They absolutely need to find a way to be competitive on the field again within the next few years or they risk a fate similar to the A’s. That might sound dramatic but it’s reality.

[southsider2k5]

31 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re still not getting this…we have no core whatsoever.  Your math is take a 41 win team add three B tier free agents worth like 10 wins if healthy and hope that gets us to the promise land.  To act like Anthony Santander is the dude we should be proactive on and lose valuable draft and LatAm slot dollars when there will be similar free agents available in a couple years when we actually need him is wild to me.

I get it…watching s%*# baseball sucks.  But for millionth time, paying market value for free agents in or entering their 30’s is a recipe for disaster if your team isn’t built to win right now.  If you lack the patience to endure what needs to be done, then I’d recommend a different hobby in the interim as this next season is going to be ugly no matter what we do.  Trying to rush things for a token amount of entertainment value is simply not the answer.

The idea that we are 3rd tier free agents away from being even mediocre or entertaining is just absurd.  There is no one that is saving this disaster of a season.  The sooner people wake up to reality, the better.  No one wants this, but it IS happening.  The only question is will the Sox do what they need to at the bottom to fix things, or will they continue to half ass it to win a couple of more games now, only to lose a lot more games in the long term.  The wanting Getz to operate like Hahn stuff is astounding.

[Chicago White Sox]

59 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Spot on. And he’s even convinced a number of loyal fans this is the way. It’s unbelievable.

These posts are getting absolutely ridiculous.  Rebuilding “the right way” isn’t some Reinsdorf trope.  Paying market value for good, not great players when you are multiple years away from competing is plain dumb, especially when it’s going to cost you draft picks and international slot dollars.  You can continue to plug your ears and scream “I demand we win 65 games next year at all costs”, but it doesn’t change the fact it’s a legit stupid long-term strategy given the current state of the team.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, fathom said:

Problem is JR has let this organization fall so much in just a few years, there’s no path to a quick fix.  Considering how bad attendance will be in 2025, I’m sure they will have to cut payroll again next offseason.

They can’t cut payroll below $60M fathom.  Agree with the rest though.

Edited Monday at 11:50 PM by Chicago White Sox

[Chicago White Sox]

50 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This is undoubtedly true and he's investing his savings on propping up the Bulls and Blackhawks by investing in the real estate around the UC with whichever Wirtz is running the Hawks.

I am however still keeping a sideways eye on the 78 project even though most of us seem to think it's dead. But Lip has a source who seems to think it'll get done. Not that I believe in fairy tales but maybe something rises from the ashes eventually.

These are different ownership groups…the money the Sox make doesn’t just transfer to the Bulls because Jerry wants to invest in real estate around the UC.

[Chicago White Sox]

36 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

60 wins is still a 100+ loss season

But that’s what your plan likely gets us…

[Chicago White Sox]

31 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

And to my point above, the Orioles did their rebuild the “right” way. Problem is they’ve been shitty for so long that they couldn’t even sell out their home playoff games in 2024. Awesome.

https://baltimorepositive.com/why-are-there-so-many-empty-seats-at-camden-yards-not-full-for-an-orioles-playoff-game/

Is this a real post?  Like now you’re whining about a team that won 91 games in the AL East because their attendance isn’t good enough.  Make it make sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

29 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

No, they shouldn’t have been shitty for so long by intentionally tanking and lost a large chunk of their fanbase. 

And your plan is to build a consistent 70 win team and really improve fan engagement.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Is this a real post?  Like now you’re whining about a team that won 91 games in the AL East because their attendance isn’t good enough.  Make it make sense.

Yes, it’s a real post because it shows what happens to a second rate fanbase even after they start winning again when the on field product has been terrible for so long. The bears can get away with it. The bulls can get away with it. The Sox cannot. 

[Chicago White Sox]

4 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Yes, it’s a real post because it shows what happens to a second rate fanbase even after they start winning again when the on field product has been terrible for so long. The bears can get away with it. The bulls can get away with it. The Sox cannot. 

They just won 91games.  What aren’t they getting away with?

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

And your plan is to build a consistent 70 win team and really improve fan engagement.

Were they a consistent 70 win team in the 90s and 2000s? And yea, the Sox were still drawing close to 2M fans prior to the 2016 rebuild, even during seasons in which they’d win 70 something games. They’ll be lucky to draw 1M in each of the next few seasons. Hand wave it away all you want but they are going serious long term damage to the fanbase, damage that it may never recover from.

[Lip Man 1]

6 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

And as has been pointed out many times, MLB controls teams moving and could easily preserve 2nd teams rights in Chicago with an eye on an easy expansion fee.

Possible of course but also possible is that if the Sox were to move MLB would say Chicago belongs to the Cubs because the Cubs would scream murder about territorial rights stopping any expansion. 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

They just won 91games.  What aren’t they getting away with?

Being shitty for 25 years outside of a 4-5 year period. Their fanbase is permanently damaged imo, especially now that they have increased competition for market share in the form of the Nationals.

[Lip Man 1]

4 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

I think everyone knows that, but people are so sick of watching bad baseball, and looking at this team, that's all you can see for the foreseeable future. JR has to sell.

No he doesn't but his family will in time. 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Can’t teach an old dog new tricks so you have to operate within that framework. I guess it’s a lost cause and the team will never win the division again under Jerry?

It is a lost cause and yes the odds are they will never win anything again as long as JR is still in control. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Were they a consistent 70 win team in the 90s and 2000s? And yea, the Sox were still drawing close to 2M fans prior to the 2016 rebuild, even during seasons in which they’d win 70 something games. They’ll be lucky to draw 1M in each of the next few seasons. Hand wave it away all you want but they are going serious long term damage to the fanbase, damage that it may never recover from.

You’re trying to pin this on the past rebuild when the reality is attendance has gradually fallen since 2005.  The issue isn’t rebuilding…it’s the fanbase losing faith with Jerry as owner.  Unfortunately, he needs to pass to right that issue.  I don’t disagree that losing creates a bigger hole to dig out of, but a consistently competitive can help offset those headwinds.  The problem is we can never build anything sustainable because have broken infrastructure and constantly try to rush things.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

Being shitty for 25 years outside of a 4-5 year period. Their fanbase is permanently damaged imo, especially now that they have increased competition for market share in the form of the Nationals.

Baltimore is also a dying city

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

This is undoubtedly true and he's investing his savings on propping up the Bulls and Blackhawks by investing in the real estate around the UC with whichever Wirtz is running the Hawks.

I am however still keeping a sideways eye on the 78 project even though most of us seem to think it's dead. But Lip has a source who seems to think it'll get done. Not that I believe in fairy tales but maybe something rises from the ashes eventually.

Cali: I think you are confusing me with someone else. I've never said or posted that, the folks that I know are telling me it is a longshot unless JR publicly agrees to put up a fair share of his own fortune. 

[southsider2k5]

15 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Possible of course but also possible is that if the Sox were to move MLB would say Chicago belongs to the Cubs because the Cubs would scream murder about territorial rights stopping any expansion. 

29 votes for the expansion dollars versus one vote for the market.  Tell me how that works out.  You keep talking about greed for expansion dollars, but the ignore the valuation of a south side franchise. 29 teams have an incentive here that the Cubs don't 

[southsider2k5]

40 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

These posts are getting absolutely ridiculous.  Rebuilding “the right way” isn’t some Reinsdorf trope.  Paying market value for good, not great players when you are multiple years away from competing is plain dumb, especially when it’s going to cost you draft picks and international slot dollars.  You can continue to plug your ears and scream “I demand we win 65 games next year at all costs”, but it doesn’t change the fact it’s a legit stupid long-term strategy given the current state of the team.

And it is quite literally how we got here 

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You’re trying to pin this on the past rebuild when the reality is attendance has gradually fallen since 2005.  The issue isn’t rebuilding…it’s the fanbase losing faith with Jerry as owner.  Unfortunately, he needs to pass to right that issue.  I don’t disagree that losing creates a bigger hole to dig out of, but a consistently competitive can help offset those headwinds.  The problem is we can never build anything sustainable because have broken infrastructure and constantly try to rush things.

Of course attendance peaked spring the World Series but drawing 1.75-2M between 2010 and 2016 was a perfectly acceptable level by historical standards. Attendance has really fallen off since 2016 outside of the one year in 2022 and the deterioration is accelerating. Attendance in 2024 was the lowest it’s been since 1999 and I expect it to drop further the next couple years. 

[Lip Man 1]

36 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

These are different ownership groups…the money the Sox make doesn’t just transfer to the Bulls because Jerry wants to invest in real estate around the UC.

JR and others have stated that he never uses money gained from one franchise to the other. They are separate entities in his business model.