White Sox projected at a $67.1 million OD payroll, 29th in all of MLB

[caulfield12]

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

 

Believe it or not, behind the AAA/Sacramento A's, and only ahead of the hapless Marlins at $65.5 million.

 

26. Pirates $79.4 million

27. A's $68 million

28. Tampa Bay Rays (also playing in the Yankees' minor league facility), $67.8 million

29. CHW $67.1 million

30. Marlins, $65.5 million

 

AL East and AL West have six teams in the Top 15 of payrolls, and the AL/NL West have 8 teams (Rockies bringing up the rear).

AL Central has the Twins at 18th ($141ish million), 20th, 21st and 25th (CLEVELAND).

NL Central has only the Cubs at 13th in MLB, $172.5 million.

[wegner]

Time to bring relegation to MLB

[WBWSF]

Obviously JR has accomplished what he wanted. Low payroll and losing team.

[caulfield12]

Fangraphs' Payroll Resource has it as:

 

25. Cleveland $97 million

26. Pirates $79 million

27. White Sox $78 million

28. TB Rays $76 million

29. Athletics $70 million

30. Marlins $66 million

 

But imagine if we can dump Benintendi and Robert...???   Bonus savings extravaganza.   Vaughn at $6.4 million would be 3rd on the team for highest salaries.

The highest guaranteed salaries after that are $1.95 million for Tauchman and $1.75 million for Slater at the current moment.

[Sleepy Harold]

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

 

Believe it or not, behind the AAA/Sacramento A's, and only ahead of the hapless Marlins at $65.5 million.

 

26. Pirates $79.4 million

27. A's $68 million

28. Tampa Bay Rays (also playing in the Yankees' minor league facility), $67.8 million

29. CHW $67.1 million

30. Marlins, $65.5 million

 

AL East and AL West have six teams in the Top 15 of payrolls, and the AL/NL West have 8 teams (Rockies bringing up the rear).

AL Central has the Twins at 18th ($141ish million), 20th, 21st and 25th (CLEVELAND).

NL Central has only the Cubs at 13th in MLB, $172.5 million.

So you're saying the coveted payroll championship is within reach? 

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, Sleepy Harold said:

So you're saying the coveted payroll championship is within reach? 

With the Rays and A's playing in minor league facilities...that means our only real competition is that monstrosity of a stadium in MIAMI they've tried to tone down a bit under new ownership.

Obviously the Pirates have a beautiful facility with PNC Park, but not the willpower on the part of ownership to even climb over a $100 million payroll.

[Lip Man 1]

JR approves of these numbers!

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

JR approves of these numbers!

Literally.

[mac9001]

To be fair the Sox are not in a position to spend their way out of their current situation. You need several years of solid drafting/development just to make a plausible argument on contending for mediocrity. The only thing more depressing than a 40 win team is a 60 win team that made an genuine attempt at doing everything in their power (by spending) to be more competitive.

[Thad Bosley]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

 

Believe it or not, behind the AAA/Sacramento A's, and only ahead of the hapless Marlins at $65.5 million.

 

26. Pirates $79.4 million

27. A's $68 million

28. Tampa Bay Rays (also playing in the Yankees' minor league facility), $67.8 million

29. CHW $67.1 million

30. Marlins, $65.5 million

 

AL East and AL West have six teams in the Top 15 of payrolls, and the AL/NL West have 8 teams (Rockies bringing up the rear).

AL Central has the Twins at 18th ($141ish million), 20th, 21st and 25th (CLEVELAND).

NL Central has only the Cubs at 13th in MLB, $172.5 million.

So that’s the primary expense line item of the income statement, the projected payroll.

What are the primary revenue sides of the statement?  Forget attendance for the moment - what is TV/radio revenue?  What is advertising revenue?  Shared MLB TV revenues?  And oh, going back to the expense side of the equation - “Rate Field” rent?  What is it these days?

You can’t look at one line item on the financials in a vacuum and try to assess its reasonableness.  You need to see the whole picture.  

And with the present owner, the whole picture suggests he’ll continue to show profits next year with his inferior product and likely at a higher profit margin than most of his peers.  This, in a major market, and entering his 45th year of ownership.  Wow.  Just a big, ‘ol wow at this point.  

Edited yesterday at 05:31 AM by Thad Bosley

[Thad Bosley]

13 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

To be fair the Sox are not in a position to spend their way out of their current situation. You need several years of solid drafting/development just to make a plausible argument on contending for mediocrity. The only thing more depressing than a 40 win team is a 60 win team that made an genuine attempt at doing everything in their power (by spending) to be more competitive.

They didn’t spend their way when they were in their own perceived window of contention when both Bryce Harper and Manny Machado were available.  

 

[mac9001]

5 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

They didn’t spend their way when they were in their own perceived window of contention when both Bryce Harper and Manny Machado were available.  

 

Which isn't a reason to spend $100M this off-season to not be the worst team in baseball. Take the $100M, buy some Bitcoin and in 3-4 years if it looks like they might be average, its time to double down on black and start acting like you're the Dodgers.

[Thad Bosley]

10 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

Which isn't a reason to spend $100M this off-season to not be the worst team in baseball. Take the $100M, buy some Bitcoin and in 3-4 years if it looks like they might be average, its time to double down on black and start acting like you're the Dodgers.

Sure, great idea.  Then have them offset that huge expense decrease with significant ticket and parking price decreases.  

Notice how payroll can gets cut willy nilly without corresponding cuts in prices?  Oh, don’t get me wrong - nominal cuts in prices occur.  But not enough to make this owner’s profit margin equal to or less than almost every other owner in baseball.   

Edited yesterday at 05:43 AM by Thad Bosley

[Chisoxfn]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://legacy.baseballprospectus.com/compensation/cots/

 

Believe it or not, behind the AAA/Sacramento A's, and only ahead of the hapless Marlins at $65.5 million.

 

26. Pirates $79.4 million

27. A's $68 million

28. Tampa Bay Rays (also playing in the Yankees' minor league facility), $67.8 million

29. CHW $67.1 million

30. Marlins, $65.5 million

 

AL East and AL West have six teams in the Top 15 of payrolls, and the AL/NL West have 8 teams (Rockies bringing up the rear).

AL Central has the Twins at 18th ($141ish million), 20th, 21st and 25th (CLEVELAND).

NL Central has only the Cubs at 13th in MLB, $172.5 million.

I am so sick of the payroll disparity in baseball. I’m so sick of JR too. 

[mac9001]

I wouldn't be so sure the Sox will actually make a profit this year. The gate receipts might be pathetically low and the new TV network is likely not at the same level of revenue of their previous setup (with Comcast still not onboard it's probably a significant decline in revenue). Being this bad isn't exactly a wise business move, spending a $100M, taking on big losses and still being laughably bad is an even worse business move. You don't become this comically pathetic of an organization and just turn things around by throwing money around without a viable strategy of being competent. They need to show they can draft and develop (it should be cheaper than paying market rates for aging FAs). If you can't get the basics right you can't spend your way into competence.

Edited 23 hours ago by mac9001

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, mac9001 said:

I wouldn't be so sure the Sox will actually make a profit this year. The gate receipts might be pathetically low and the new TV network is likely not at the same level of revenue of their previous setup (with Comcast still not onboard it's probably a significant decline in revenue). Being this bad isn't exactly a wise business move, spending a $100M, taking on big losses and still being laughably bad is an even worse business move. You don't become this comically pathetic of an organization and just turn things around by throwing money around without a viable strategy of being competent. They need to show they can draft and develop (it should be cheaper than paying market rates for aging FAs). If you can't get the basics right you can't spend your way into competence.

JR is stripping the team of debt for potential buyers for when he passed away and  Michael Reinsdorf sells the team.

He's not selling the house furnished.But he may be able to tell the buyer that it's got a good foundation.

[caulfield12]

https://d3data.sportico.com/MLBValuations2024/MLBValuationsList.html

Crazy that he's already driven the value of the franchise down from $2.2 billion to $1.9 billion.

This was once a consistently Top 8-12 valued franchise.

Somehow the small market Padres have even passed them...by spending enough money to deliver Top 3-5 attendance on a consistent basis.  And even more revenue is possible if they land Sasaki.

 

http://www.google.com.hk/url?q=https://www.forbes.com/lists/mlb-valuations/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiKhMmg6OWKAxWmG9AFHV7dIqkQFnoECA0QAw&usg=AOvVaw3XtKuuBKQuFkF4q23GBMIa

Here they are 15th at $2.05 billion...

Edited 20 hours ago by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

9 hours ago, mac9001 said:

To be fair the Sox are not in a position to spend their way out of their current situation. You need several years of solid drafting/development just to make a plausible argument on contending for mediocrity. The only thing more depressing than a 40 win team is a 60 win team that made an genuine attempt at doing everything in their power (by spending) to be more competitive.

Or a 40 win team that wasn't trying to be a 40 win team.

[Highland]

Obviously merely spending money will not automatically solve problems. But right now this team has little credibility. I don't expect any kind of winning any time soon.

[WBWSF]

9 hours ago, mac9001 said:

I wouldn't be so sure the Sox will actually make a profit this year. The gate receipts might be pathetically low and the new TV network is likely not at the same level of revenue of their previous setup (with Comcast still not onboard it's probably a significant decline in revenue). Being this bad isn't exactly a wise business move, spending a $100M, taking on big losses and still being laughably bad is an even worse business move. You don't become this comically pathetic of an organization and just turn things around by throwing money around without a viable strategy of being competent. They need to show they can draft and develop (it should be cheaper than paying market rates for aging FAs). If you can't get the basics right you can't spend your way into competence.

2025 will be one of the most profitable years for the White Sox. Low payroll= big profits for ownership. The team grosses  about $400 million.  The team lost 100 games in 2018 and was the 6th most profitable team in MLB. They should be in the top 5 most profitable teams in MLB in 2025.

[southsider2k5]

13 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

2025 will be one of the most profitable years for the White Sox. Low payroll= big profits for ownership. The team grosses  about $400 million.  The team lost 100 games in 2018 and was the 6th most profitable team in MLB. They should be in the top 5 most profitable teams in MLB in 2025.

If it is, it would be their first profitable year since before the pandemic.

[buckweaver]

Might the low payroll be seen as a positive for a prospective new owner? Let's hope.

[caulfield12]

5 minutes ago, buckweaver said:

Might the low payroll be seen as a positive for a prospective new owner? Let's hope.

Well...we're pretty much the anti-Padres at this point.  Despite 7 $100+ million contracts (injured Musgrove, Cronenworth and Bogaerts the worst) and a tiny media market, their stadium and game atmosphere/weather have pushed them past the Sox in franchise valuation.

If you're on the Cohen side of the ledger, a completely stripped down model (but lacking a viable public stadium plan) certainly would be attractive if you were willing to invest into your product to kick start things.

 

[Balta1701]

10 hours ago, mac9001 said:

I wouldn't be so sure the Sox will actually make a profit this year. The gate receipts might be pathetically low and the new TV network is likely not at the same level of revenue of their previous setup (with Comcast still not onboard it's probably a significant decline in revenue). Being this bad isn't exactly a wise business move, spending a $100M, taking on big losses and still being laughably bad is an even worse business move. You don't become this comically pathetic of an organization and just turn things around by throwing money around without a viable strategy of being competent. They need to show they can draft and develop (it should be cheaper than paying market rates for aging FAs). If you can't get the basics right you can't spend your way into competence.

I think this is likely to be the single most profitable year of Jerry Reinsdorf's life.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, WBWSF said:

2025 will be one of the most profitable years for the White Sox. Low payroll= big profits for ownership. The team grosses  about $400 million.  The team lost 100 games in 2018 and was the 6th most profitable team in MLB. They should be in the top 5 most profitable teams in MLB in 2025.

Wasn’t it just $277 million last year?