Jeff Passan on Fromthe108

[Chicago White Sox]

12 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s the plan for SS for 2026 and beyond if evaluators are right about Colson? One year stop gaps like Paul Dejong every year until maybe someone like Bonemer is ready in 2028?

Multi-year FA or trade?

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s the plan for SS for 2026 and beyond if evaluators are right about Colson? One year stop gaps like Paul Dejong every year until maybe someone like Bonemer is ready in 2028?

Elvis Andrus should still be available.

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

1 hour ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Multi-year FA or trade?

Unless Bo Bichette bounces back this season, there isn’t a single free agent shortstop I’d give a multi year contract to next winter. And if he does bounce back, he’s probably out of the Sox budget anyways.

[Bob Sacamano]

5 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s the plan for SS for 2026 and beyond if evaluators are right about Colson? One year stop gaps like Paul Dejong every year until maybe someone like Bonemer is ready in 2028?

Yeah most likely. Team will suck in probably 25 or 26. Unless a prospect already in house takes off or we get someone else in a Robert trade later.

Edit: they can probably afford to just give Colson 2 years to prove he can’t play the position.

Edited 19 hours ago by Bob Sacamano

[southsider2k5]

24 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Yeah most likely. Team will suck in probably 25 or 26. Unless a prospect already in house takes off or we get someone else in a Robert trade later.

Edit: they can probably afford to just give Colson 2 years to prove he can’t play the position.

As well they should once he earns his shot.

[Harold's Leg Lift]

8 hours ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

What’s the plan for SS for 2026 and beyond if evaluators are right about Colson? One year stop gaps like Paul Dejong every year until maybe someone like Bonemer is ready in 2028?

It could be a guy they draft this year.  There are four college SS who could play themselves into the mix at 1-10.  If they go that route and he's a fast mover he can definitely be the starting SS in '26.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

17 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

How is he on those jump throws deep in the hole like Anderson perfected?

Range up the middle?   Throwing against his body moving left?  Ability to quickly get back to his feet and get rid of the ball on diving plays?

Turning double plays?

Watching 35 games in a year in which he didn't hit well possibly due to injuries may also effect his fielding.I wouldn't put much stock in it.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Watching 35 games in a year in which he didn't hit well possibly due to injuries may also effect his fielding.I wouldn't put much stock in it.

I would put a lot more faith in someone who watched Montgomery on a daily basis for over a month than simply wishing or "he considers himself a SS" just like Eloy and Moncada dictated where and when they played on the field to their managers.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/corey-seager/13624/stats?position=SS

Seager has graded out positively for six consecutive years on defense...with three particularly strong seasons mixed in.

 

If Montgomery is below average at SS...and Vaughn we know isn't good, then you have to have Rojas who can't hit to balance things out a bit.

Sosa is definitely not a plus defender...Meidroth has question marks about defense and Baldwin profiles as a utility guy. Ramos was borderline terrible on defense the times I watched him play...making some great plays and messing up lot of easy ones.

Edited 14 hours ago by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

6 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

I would put a lot more faith in someone who watched Montgomery on a daily basis for over a month than simply wishing or "he considers himself a SS" just like Eloy and Moncada dictated where and when they played on the field to their managers.

 

Industry people are probably scouts or other teams' personnel who saw Montgomery for a week during the season, a couple of times. I would think the White Sox have a better feel for where Monty will end up than the Cleveland A-ball manager. Or whomever. 

[caulfield12]

2 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Watching 35 games in a year in which he didn't hit well possibly due to injuries may also effect his fielding.I wouldn't put much stock in it.

I would put a lot more faith in someone who watched Montgomery on a daily basis for over a month than simply wishing or "he considers himself a SS" just like Eloy and Moncada dictated where and when they played on the field to their managers.

 

 

Viciedo Teahen Josh Fields Mark Teahen Andrew Vaughn Gordon Beckham Sheets Burger...just a short list of players who the Sox played where they didn't belong, or moved to get their bats into the line up SOMEWHERE.

Heck Pollock ever playing RF or CF was doomed...just as much as Fletcher in CF is a bad idea.

Edited 14 hours ago by caulfield12

[Timmy U]

Industry people are often stubbornly predicting moving players to lower defensive positions etc. On pipeline podcast they were talking about how one evaluator was convinced Verlander was headed to the bullpen. I say, we let Montgomery play and over time it will be obvious whether he can stay at short or not. Any talk of moving him to 1st is insane. He might be marginal at short, but he is great at 3b.

[caulfield12]

21 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Industry people are often stubbornly predicting moving players to lower defensive positions etc. On pipeline podcast they were talking about how one evaluator was convinced Verlander was headed to the bullpen. I say, we let Montgomery play and over time it will be obvious whether he can stay at short or not. Any talk of moving him to 1st is insane. He might be marginal at short, but he is great at 3b.

Without a plus plus arm...above average 3B is more likely.

 

Pretty much nobody would consider moving him to CF like SD did with Jackson Merrill, for example.

Edited 13 hours ago by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

I would put a lot more faith in someone who watched Montgomery on a daily basis for over a month than simply wishing or "he considers himself a SS" just like Eloy and Moncada dictated where and when they played on the field to their managers.

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/corey-seager/13624/stats?position=SS

Seager has graded out positively for six consecutive years on defense...with three particularly strong seasons mixed in.

 

If Montgomery is below average at SS...and Vaughn we know isn't good, then you have to have Rojas who can't hit to balance things out a bit.

Sosa is definitely not a plus defender...Meidroth has question marks about defense and Baldwin profiles as a utility guy. Ramos was borderline terrible on defense the times I watched him play...making some great plays and messing up lot of easy ones.

I understand it's easy to put labels on prospects based on nothing more than the word of a stranger on a board.

We argue over versatility vs. leaving them at 1 position or switching them to another position vs how it affects their hitting and if they should play now in the MLB or give them more MiLB time.

Just sit back and watch it unfold . Relax enjoy watching baseball .

No matter what you do if they end up hitting in MLB it was the right decision. If they don't hit everything you did defensively was wrong. Often one has 0 effect on the other or its impossible to know . We can all argue til we're blue in the face about bad development or just tools never would've translated no matter what. Those are arguments I will never believe. Why things happen or how much development helps are impossible to know. Right place,  wrong time, wrong coach ,right coach, anxiety, work ethic, trial and error, attitude, injuries all play their roles

Edited 13 hours ago by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[GreenSox]

I don't know how anyone can listen to these guys without getting a headache.  But  Loaf's solo podcast (which he referred to) with Joe Sheehan was listenable.  2-3 year timeline on rebuilds.  Last year, Getz turned a $7 million investment into $30 mill of value (Fedde; of course he didn't mention that Getz vanquished that value right back).  

Nothing to be gained in sitting in rest mode for multiple years.

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

I don't know how anyone can listen to these guys without getting a headache.  But  Loaf's solo podcast (which he referred to) with Joe Sheehan was listenable.  2-3 year timeline on rebuilds.  Last year, Getz turned a $7 million investment into $30 mill of value (Fedde; of course he didn't mention that Getz vanquished that value right back).  

Nothing to be gained in sitting in rest mode for multiple years.

A very key point to note.

[caulfield12]

29 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

A very key point to note.

Well between Moncada FAs and Benintendi...they turned $80 million in supposed value into a net negative.

That's not even accounting for Jimenez...almost $100 mIllion up in smoke. 

And watched Robert going from a Top 10-15 MLB trade asset to non tender if he repeats 2024 again.

Then they gave Kopech away for almost nothing.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, GreenSox said:

I don't know how anyone can listen to these guys without getting a headache.  But  Loaf's solo podcast (which he referred to) with Joe Sheehan was listenable.  2-3 year timeline on rebuilds.  Last year, Getz turned a $7 million investment into $30 mill of value (Fedde; of course he didn't mention that Getz vanquished that value right back).  

Nothing to be gained in sitting in rest mode for multiple years.

I really dislike the concept of podcasts where guys have to tell "jokes" and then laugh nervously to simulate a fun group of guys atmosphere. Of course, people just talking probably doesn't hang onto listeners as well. 

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I understand it's easy to put labels on prospects based on nothing more than the word of a stranger on a board.

We argue over versatility vs. leaving them at 1 position or switching them to another position vs how it affects their hitting and if they should play now in the MLB or give them more MiLB time.

Just sit back and watch it unfold . Relax enjoy watching baseball .

No matter what you do if they end up hitting in MLB it was the right decision. If they don't hit everything you did defensively was wrong. Often one has 0 effect on the other or its impossible to know . We can all argue til we're blue in the face about bad development or just tools never would've translated no matter what. Those are arguments I will never believe. Why things happen or how much development helps are impossible to know. Right place,  wrong time, wrong coach ,right coach, anxiety, work ethic, trial and error, attitude, injuries all play their roles

The fact of the matter is he struggled to put up a 700 ops when 850-900 is pretty automatic playing 1/2 your games at Charlotte.

And yes, while few prospects other than Robert and Moncada possessed plus tools defensively…80% of the Sox development problems are usually on the hitting side.

[mac9001]

I don't know if I've seen anyone in the entire prospect industry give Colson a passable review at SS. He's not a bad athlete, he's actually a pretty solid, but he's a big dude. He would probably make a solid D1 TE. When you watch him there are two things there seem to be very apparent. 1) He seems a bit stiff. It might just be his size but it just doesn't look that smooth when he's on the move, especially to his right side. 2) His reaction time, or the initial explosive first step you would love to see in a quality SS is not there. Once he's moving he might be above average in terms of sprint speed, but with each play as SS my only thought was this guy is just way too big to play SS.

I don't even think I'm being critical of him. For a man his size to be this close to the majors while still playing SS is very impressive. I look forward to seeing him at the MLB level. If I was making the decisions I probably would have moved him to 3rd simply because at some point this team will likely be semi-competitive again and you don't want to fool yourself into thinking you have a viable defender at SS and then scramble to fill a defensive hole. While at the same time developing 3B options that might be blocked (Ramos). 

[TaylorStSox]

5 minutes ago, mac9001 said:

I don't know if I've seen anyone in the entire prospect industry give Colson a passable review at SS. He's not a bad athlete, he's actually a pretty solid, but he's a big dude. He would probably make a solid D1 TE. When you watch him there are two things there seem to be very apparent. 1) He seems a bit stiff. It might just be his size but it just doesn't look that smooth when he's on the move, especially to his right side. 2) His reaction time, or the initial explosive first step you would love to see in a quality SS is not there. Once he's moving he might be above average in terms of sprint speed, but with each play as SS my only thought was this guy is just way too big to play SS.

I don't even think I'm being critical of him. For a man his size to be this close to the majors while still playing SS is very impressive. I look forward to seeing him at the MLB level. If I was making the decisions I probably would have moved him to 3rd simply because at some point this team will likely be semi-competitive again and you don't want to fool yourself into thinking you have a viable defender at SS and then scramble to fill a defensive hole. While at the same time developing 3B options that might be blocked (Ramos). 

Arod was big and stiff and still an incredible SS. Obviously Montgomery isn't Arod, but it's still possible. If being a mediocre SS makes Montgomery a better player, it's worth the time. There's literally no risk for us. 

[Lyle Moooton]

There’s a lot we don’t know the answer to here, but one thing I do know is that if Montgomery’s career doesn’t go well, it will definitely be because the Sox signed Josh Rojas. 

[mac9001]

18 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Arod was big and stiff and still an incredible SS. Obviously Montgomery isn't Arod, but it's still possible. If being a mediocre SS makes Montgomery a better player, it's worth the time. There's literally no risk for us. 

Young A-Rod was not stiff. He was a great athlete (I think he even swiped 40 bags one year). He got big and stiff in his late 20s, but Colson is already way bigger than A-Rod was even on roids. Colson is a big dude, he's gotta be around 6'5"ish, 240-250. He would make most 1B look small.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, mac9001 said:

Young A-Rod was not stiff. He was a great athlete (I think he even swiped 40 bags one year). He got big and stiff in his late 20s, but Colson is already way bigger than A-Rod was even on roids. Colson is a big dude, he's gotta be around 6'5"ish, 240-250. He would make most 1B look small.

A-Rod before the roids was the definition of a dynamic fast-twitch athlete,…just like Elly de la Cruz, Witt, Jr. or Tatis, Jr.  

Montgomery seems closer to Cal Ripken, minus the close to dominant arm.

The funny thing looking back on the Sox history is that they readily identified three SS’s in Semien, Anderson and Tatis, but didn’t even know what they actually had on their hands in two of them.  You could even go back further to Escobar and Ramirez, who a lot felt was a CFer or utility guy.

And now they can’t develop up the middle players, especially 2B…to even put up 2 fWAR seasons on a consistent basis.

Meanwhile, the Royals have Witt, the Guardians Ramirez and then Correa/Royce Lewis with the Twins.