Could Getz Have an Actual Master Plan?

[WestEddy]

41 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I don't think his plan is play the future. I think it's to delay that as much as you can. I think the Project Birmingham in 2023 and the Barons championship in 2024 is part of what he's thinking . He wants as many prospects to grow together as possible.

Now you have to play some like Sosa and Vargas because they are out of options. I think he wants other guys to force the issue and they will start the year in the minors , whoever it may be. No need to start the clocks on guys . He wants competition but will be trying to preserve service time and options for as long as he can .

Maybe that's why he picked up Perez , Rojas, Tauchman, Slater and lots of veteran arms. He still wants to churn the minors so he hopes to flip 5 or 6 guys and he'll look for a lot more in lower minors now .

Sox in the Basement podcast has been spouting that Getz has a plan and it's a lot like what I've been talking about which is build the foundation , create minor leagues depth, create competition, grow together. They start off saying Getz was handed a crap sandwich and it's pretty much the same things you hear on Sox Machine with the occasional "not sure what he's doing in this instance" stance.

 

Thanks for posting that podcast. Will give it a listen.

[caulfield12]

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

What in god's name are you talking about? Were you old enough to watch those teams? They never "rebuilt" anything. They just kept doubling and tripling down on the plan to win roughly 80 games and then they caught lightning in a bottle in 2005 (bless them for it) and then added a ton of talent for 2006 but completely collapsed as the pitching reverted back out of once every 50 years type lightning in a bottle.

Look at the actual records but also the pythags from the time period in question (far right column).

Basically it was a team that bounced around the expected variation in a .500 team on paper. There was no rebuild. They never sold off vets and turned them into prospects. They just kept being content with being average and got really fucking lucky with almost literally their entire pitching staff having a career year. As we saw immediately after the WS run, there was no secret sauce. On paper the 2006 team was much better, but of course regression happened hard and then reality hit for the next 7-8 years that the org was in decline. This of course culminated in the Hahn rebuild.

@WestEddy if you're gonna throw down internet stickers instead of articulating any sort of argument for your position you're even sillier than I thought.

Here's a simple test: did ANY SOX FAN AROUND AGE 35-60 ON THIS FORUM HEAD INTO THE 2005 SEASON THINKING THIS IS OUR WS YEAR?

Of course fucking not. Because there was no rebuild, there was no "contention window" it was just muddling along on the tail end of Frank's career, making profits for JR, and hoping KW could eventually pull something out of his ass with his trades and "80 cent on the dollar" type FA moves.

Getting rid of Ordonez Caballo and Valentin for a cast of unknowns was treated quite skeptically.

Nobody knew what to expect out of Contreras El Duque AJ Dye Everett Jenks Iguchi Pods etc.

They had sacrificed a ton of offense going into the season...and then Thomas was on the shelf too.

 

Ofc the bullpen going through three closers while winning nearly every close game and manufacturing runs with Pods and Iguchi early season to get leads was one of the biggest keys to how that team excelled.

Edited 5 hours ago by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

29 minutes ago, Tony said:

One of the most incredible statements ever made in the very long history of this site. 

I’m still laughing that the 2005 White Sox World Series was the result of a rebuild that started in the 1990’s.  🤣

I always thought it was a combination of acquisitions that all surprisingly panned out in a pretty flukish season.

[southsider2k5]

Can we get to a non 100 loss season or two before we make any more threads giving hand jobs to Getz?  

[caulfield12]

18 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’m still laughing that the 2005 White Sox World Series was the result of a rebuild that started in the 1990’s.  🤣

I always thought it was a combination of acquisitions that all surprisingly panned out in a pretty flukish season.

Most of the 98-2000 prospects other than Garland and Buehrle Crede and Rowand never panned out...

[Timmy U]

7 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Most of the 98-2000 prospects other than Garland and Buehrle Crede and Rowand never panned out...

Baldwin, Sirotka, and Parque were all pretty good before they shredded their arms within weeks of each other in 2000.

[caulfield12]

4 minutes ago, Timmy U said:

Baldwin, Sirotka, and Parque were all pretty good before they shredded their arms within weeks of each other in 2000.

Sure but we're back to that actual 2005 team.

Reed Morse Olivo for Garcia and Loiaza for Contreras were just as relevant...as well as Cotts Politte coming out of nowhere to excel.

 

The Ritchie for Wells Lowe Fogg trade was terrible.

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I’m still laughing that the 2005 White Sox World Series was the result of a rebuild that started in the 1990’s.  🤣

I always thought it was a combination of acquisitions that all surprisingly panned out in a pretty flukish season.

I guess facts are funny, that way. 

Three players didn't pick the team up and carry them to the championship. If you believe that, maybe that's why you think facts are so funny. 

[WestEddy]

1 hour ago, caulfield12 said:

Most of the 98-2000 prospects other than Garland and Buehrle Crede and Rowand never panned out...

Yeah, that's how the minor leagues work. 

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I guess facts are funny, that way. 

Three players didn't pick the team up and carry them to the championship. If you believe that, maybe that's why you think facts are so funny. 

Facts in your own mind perhaps…

No one but you could look at that 2005 Sox roster and say it was the result of a rebuild…

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2005.shtml

 

[WestEddy]

54 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Sure but we're back to that actual 2005 team.

Reed Morse Olivo for Garcia and Loiaza for Contreras were just as relevant...as well as Cotts Politte coming out of nowhere to excel.

 

The Ritchie for Wells Lowe Fogg trade was terrible.

The 2005 team wasn't assembled in 30 minutes, as some would have you believe. The top 4 players in bWAR were in the organization for years. 

[WestEddy]

10 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Facts in your own mind perhaps…

No one but you could look at that 2005 Sox roster and say it was the result of a rebuild…

https://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/CHW/2005.shtml

 

Are you really going to dig in and argue about this? Nobody is saying they completely tanked, traded anything of value and started from scratch in 1997. But they did hit a lull where the 1994 team was dead. They rebuilt the pitching staff and offense from within, when that stalled 2003-2004, they added Contreras and Garcia in 2004, and the big 3 before the 2005 season. 

Only Thomas and Durham were really left from the 93-94 teams by 1999. Again, I'm not even really sure what you're arguing. 

Edited 3 hours ago by WestEddy

[WhiteSox2023]

7 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Are you really going to dig in and argue about this? Nobody is saying they completely tanked, traded anything of value and started from scratch in 1997. But they did hit a lull where the 1994 team was dead. They rebuilt the pitching staff and offense from within, when that stalled 2003-2004, they added Contreras and Garcia in 2004, and the big 3 before the 2005 season. 

@chitownsportsfan already explained this in his previous post.  The Sox were an 80+ win team for years before 2005.  They made some trades and acquisitions that led to the perfect storm of everyone playing well for that one year.  Teams make acquisitions every year.  That doesn’t mean it was a rebuild.

Edited 3 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, southsider2k5 said:

Can we get to a non 100 loss season or two before we make any more threads giving hand jobs to Getz?  

Classy. The master baiter himself now says if you say anything positive about Getz you're a homosexual. Not sure if thats homophobia or just his normal bullying tactics . Why don't you just s*** his d*** while you're at it . We know that's what you meant.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Classy. The master baiter himself now says if you say anything positive about Getz you're a homosexual. Not sure if thats homophobia or just his normal bullying tactics . Why don't you just s*** his d*** while you're at it . We know that's what you meant.

If you think that was a homophobic comment or that @southsider2k5 was calling Getz a homosexual, you need to get out more.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

7 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

If you think that was a homophobic comment or that @southsider2k5 was calling Getz a homosexual, you need to get out more.

Are you Robin and he's Batman to you ?

And how you came up with me thinking he was calling Getz gay is the dumbest thing I ever heard. JzFC it's pretty plain what I said.

Edited 3 hours ago by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WestEddy]

8 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

@chitownsportsfan already explained this in his previous post.  The Sox were an 80+ win team for years before 2005.  They made some trades and acquisitions that led to the perfect storm of everyone playing well for that one year.  Teams make acquisitions every year.  That doesn’t mean it was a rebuild.

Yeah, and you trotting it back out is as silly as when he wrote it. I know you dream of a core as great as Mike Caruso and Jaime Navarro to build around. Their pythagorean had them as a low-mid 70 win team from 97-99. They rebuilt their pitching staff and started seeding in rookies like Ordonez, Cameron and Lee. Again, I'm not sure why this simple truth makes you want to argue nonsense. 

[WhiteSox2023]

14 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Are you Robin and he's Batman to you ?

Are you completely clueless as to modern lingo?  I’m not 70 yet but I am pretty sure I understood what he was getting at.

No GM that just set a record for futility should be fluffed and stroked as much as Getz is by some.

Oh wait, I’m being homophobic and calling people who like Getz gay!  🤣

Edited 3 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

7 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Are you Robin and he's Batman to you ?

And how you came up with me thinking he was calling Getz gay is the dumbest thing I ever heard. JzFC it's pretty plain what I said.

He's in "people who don't hate Getz must... always....be .....wrong about everything!!!!" mode. I'm not sure what he's even arguing. I suppose "fluffing" is next in the arsenal. 

[WhiteSox2023]

8 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, and you trotting it back out is as silly as when he wrote it. I know you dream of a core as great as Mike Caruso and Jaime Navarro to build around. Their pythagorean had them as a low-mid 70 win team from 97-99. They rebuilt their pitching staff and started seeding in rookies like Ordonez, Cameron and Lee. Again, I'm not sure why this simple truth makes you want to argue nonsense. 

Yet none of those players were actually around for the WS team.  Cameron had been traded for Konerko six freaking years earlier.  Lee was traded for Scottie Pods in the offseason.  It was just a series of moves that all panned out for one season.  There was no rebuild.  If there was a rebuild, the team shouldn’t have fallen apart after just one more season.

Edited 3 hours ago by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Are you Robin and he's Batman to you ?

And how you came up with me thinking he was calling Getz gay is the dumbest thing I ever heard. JzFC it's pretty plain what I said.

Oh yes, sorry, I’m sure he meant that anyone who praises Getz is gay.  Either idea is just plain stupid.

[WhiteSox2023]

41-121.

Enough said.

[caulfield12]

What the Andy Heck is going on with this thread?

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

41 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I guess facts are funny, that way. 

Three players didn't pick the team up and carry them to the championship. If you believe that, maybe that's why you think facts are so funny. 

You insinuated that the White Flag trade, as it was known, helped lead them. Caruso had that one year he had 700 infield hits, but then he was done. Howry was trade for Frank Francisco. Keith foulke was a guy no doubt, but they traded three MLB starters for 1 closer lol and that's why they succeeded??

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

32 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

@chitownsportsfan already explained this in his previous post.  The Sox were an 80+ win team for years before 2005.  They made some trades and acquisitions that led to the perfect storm of everyone playing well for that one year.  Teams make acquisitions every year.  That doesn’t mean it was a rebuild.

As Kenny called it when they moved Lee for Pods, it was a reshuffle. Their offense, while incredibly powerful was stagnant. They changed the build up of the team and it worked. 

I won't stand for the shade being thrown at the '05 sox. That was no fluke and those guys were dudes and that team was built beautifully.