Michael A. Taylor Signed

[2Deep]

  On 2/17/2025 at 6:24 PM, Tnetennba said:

 

making some actual strides =/= Getz has made legitimate foundational change.

I would like to believe Getz is doing what you're saying, but we don't actually know it yet, and I can't put faith in what the FO says. Nothing he is purportedly doing has been proven out yet, and we don't have evidence of tangible change. All I'm saying is that it's premature to make such definitive statements. 

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We do know some things.

 

41-121

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 2/17/2025 at 6:21 PM, Tnetennba said:

I'm not a Sox Machine subscriber, so no. 

Can you provide tangible evidence that supports your claim that Getz has made legitimate foundational change?

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I’m down in Nashville with my family right now, but will try to summarize when i have some down time.

[Balta1701]

It's worth noting how our "insiders" repeatedly told us in 2018 and 2019 how dramatically they had changed the way they scouted things with the draft from the way Williams was doing things and this was surely to bring improved success. There is a reason why people are having this response, you can only tell us things are getting fixed so many times before we don't believe it.

[Bob Sacamano]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:13 PM, Balta1701 said:

It's worth noting how our "insiders" repeatedly told us in 2018 and 2019 how dramatically they had changed the way they scouted things with the draft from the way Williams was doing things and this was surely to bring improved success. There is a reason why people are having this response, you can only tell us things are getting fixed so many times before we don't believe it.

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Yeah. Sure it’s nice that they are making changes but we need to see results. The skepticism is fair.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:13 PM, Balta1701 said:

It's worth noting how our "insiders" repeatedly told us in 2018 and 2019 how dramatically they had changed the way they scouted things with the draft from the way Williams was doing things and this was surely to bring improved success. There is a reason why people are having this response, you can only tell us things are getting fixed so many times before we don't believe it.

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Do you mind sharing the receipts?  Like I outlined in a post a few weeks ago that the core lieutenants in Hahn’s front office were all White Sox lifers and not anything like Getz’s crew.  And now, we actually have real evidence of investment in the core under Chris, something I don’t ever recall seeing under Rick.  Again, doesn’t mean everything is suddenly fixed, but it’s nice to see tangible actions taking place instead of a bunch of lawyer speak.

Edited February 17 by Chicago White Sox

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:13 PM, Balta1701 said:

It's worth noting how our "insiders" repeatedly told us in 2018 and 2019 how dramatically they had changed the way they scouted things with the draft from the way Williams was doing things and this was surely to bring improved success. There is a reason why people are having this response, you can only tell us things are getting fixed so many times before we don't believe it.

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And the Paddy hire was going to fix the international problems which hadn't been fixed since Wilder...

[Balta1701]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:31 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you mind sharing the receipts?  Like I outlined in a post a few weeks ago that core lieutenants in Hahn’s were all White Sox lifers and not anything like Getz’s crew.  And now, we actually have real evidence of investment in the core under Chris, something I don’t ever recall seeing under Rick.  Again, doesn’t mean everything is suddenly fixed, but it’s nice to see tangible actions taking place instead of a bunch of lawyer speak.

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We never got the "system overhaul" message that we're getting now although guys like Getz were brought in. But there's one particular insider who insisted specifically that the drafting strategy was much improved, and we've seen how garbage that turned out to be. I'll leave you to do the search yourself.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:36 PM, southsider2k5 said:

And the Paddy hire was going to fix the international problems which hadn't been fixed since Wilder...

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Paddy was hired before Hahn was even GM

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:37 PM, Balta1701 said:

We never got the "system overhaul" message that we're getting now although guys like Getz were brought in. But there's one particular insider who insisted specifically that the drafting strategy was much improved, and we've seen how garbage that turned out to be. I'll leave you to do the search yourself.

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The draft strategy that has been much improved under Shirley?  Not sure I’m following your main point here.

[Y2Jimmy0]

  On 2/17/2025 at 7:33 PM, Tnetennba said:

I went searching for these reports by multiple journalists and found more articles on the stadium name change than on what Fegan is reporting. As a matter of fact, I did not find a single article to corroborate Fegan's piece. There are plenty of older articles talking about changes the Sox are supposedly making from recent years, most before Getz assembled the worst team in modern baseball, and none from actual journalists. Which of course comes as no surprise. As unsurprising as another unsubstantiated claim from the least credible Getz defender on this site.

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Been talking about these changes all year on the FutureSox podcast. The article from Fegan was really informative today. Highly recommend for all. 

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:31 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Do you mind sharing the receipts?  Like I outlined in a post a few weeks ago that the core lieutenants in Hahn’s front office were all White Sox lifers and not anything like Getz’s crew.  And now, we actually have real evidence of investment in the core under Chris, something I don’t ever recall seeing under Rick.  Again, doesn’t mean everything is suddenly fixed, but it’s nice to see tangible actions taking place instead of a bunch of lawyer speak.

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Come on, man. You know Chris Getz sucks, the White Sox are doomed and everything is fucked. 

[GreenSox]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:37 PM, Balta1701 said:

We never got the "system overhaul" message that we're getting now although guys like Getz were brought in. But there's one particular insider who insisted specifically that the drafting strategy was much improved, and we've seen how garbage that turned out to be. I'll leave you to do the search yourself.

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Shirley was Hahn's last director of amateur scouting, and he still is director.   Some say that Haber was making some of the picks instead of Shirley, and that's obviously not happening anymore.

[WestEddy]

  On 2/17/2025 at 7:33 PM, Tnetennba said:

I went searching for these reports by multiple journalists and found more articles on the stadium name change than on what Fegan is reporting. As a matter of fact, I did not find a single article to corroborate Fegan's piece. There are plenty of older articles talking about changes the Sox are supposedly making from recent years, most before Getz assembled the worst team in modern baseball, and none from actual journalists. Which of course comes as no surprise. As unsurprising as another unsubstantiated claim from the least credible Getz defender on this site.

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Here's the paragraph from Fegan's article that talks about the Trajekt machine:

  Quote

Hiring a director of hitting, buying a Trajekt machine for him and other hitting coaches to employ, and generally addressing the weakest collection of bat speed in the league like the crisis that it was, has an upfront cost. But like all the infrastructure improvement on the table, it costs less than Alex Bregman. Such a case is easier to make after 121 losses. Maybe even easier than it would have been after 115.

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[southsider2k5]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:51 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Been talking about these changes all year on the FutureSox podcast. The article from Fegan was really informative today. Highly recommend for all. 

Come on, man. You know Chris Getz sucks, the White Sox are doomed and everything is fucked. 

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Look man, you can mock everyone who has seen the last 45 years of ownership, complete with every lie to the fans, every broke promise to the base, every company line planted to the eager faithful parrots, and every single vow to be different, and eat it up. That's fine.  You absolutely should not be surprised by those who have seen this exact same behavior in the past and who have learned a healthy skepticism from it.  Some of us will wait for results before declaring everything fixed.

[Dick Allen]

  On 2/17/2025 at 11:52 PM, WestEddy said:

Here's the paragraph from Fegan's article that talks about the Trajekt machine:

 

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Thank God the Orioles fired him, so the White Sox now have a hitting guru. All you need for more bat speed is a better coach. If Getz selects coaches and front office staff like he does players, they might not be .500 until JR is gone.

Edited February 18 by Dick Allen

[WestEddy]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:36 PM, southsider2k5 said:

And the Paddy hire was going to fix the international problems which hadn't been fixed since Wilder...

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The Sox were dead in the water with international scouting until Paddy came along. Paddy did get them jump started again, got them right into the Cuban pro market, but then he stalled. If you start a business, then hire a manager to manage a small group of people, then find that manager wasn't a good hire, do you shut down the business, or try to hire the right person?

[chitownsportsfan]

Ayo, some required reading:

@bmags and a couple others called all of it.

Edited February 18 by chitownsportsfan

[Dick Allen]

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:10 AM, chitownsportsfan said:

Ayo, some required reading:

 

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Looks like most got this hire right.

[Tnetennba]

  On 2/17/2025 at 9:51 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Been talking about these changes all year on the FutureSox podcast. The article from Fegan was really informative today. Highly recommend for all. 

Come on, man. You know Chris Getz sucks, the White Sox are doomed and everything is fucked. 

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This is nice to hear, but podcasting and writing for our respective blogs don't equate to multiple journalists reporting on said front office change as a specific poster claimed. This isn't a shot across anyone's bow.   I have nothing but respect for those out there hustling to get truthful information from an insular org, or who care enough to write/blog/pod about a sorry-ass franchise in our spare time.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:13 AM, Dick Allen said:

Looks like most got this hire right.

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Numerous comments that he was light on experience for the role.  And then he was light on experience yet again when JR promoted him to GM.

[Tnetennba]

  On 2/17/2025 at 7:38 PM, PaleAleSox said:

Wait, do you not believe what is happening because only Fegan wrote about it? The guy who is probably the best sports journalist in town? 

And to say he isn't an "actual journalist" is pretty insulting to the guy. 

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You completely misread my statement. I'm not attacking Fegan, he is legit and one of the better credentialed writers to cover this sorry ass team. I'm debunking @WestEddy's unsubstantiated claims used in an attempt to dunk on me for questioning his almighty holiness Chris Getz.

I will continue to stand by my statement that it is premature to state unequivocally that Getz has brought about foundational change in the front office. We don't and can't know this yet. Yet. We need actual evidence that Getz's efforts to change the White Sox FO modus operandi is working, and it's too soon to know either way. 

[WestEddy]

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:32 AM, Tnetennba said:

You completely misread my statement. I'm not attacking Fegan, he is legit and one of the better credentialed writers to cover this sorry ass team. I'm debunking @WestEddy's unsubstantiated claims used in an attempt to dunk on me for questioning his almighty holiness Chris Getz.

I will continue to stand by my statement that it is premature to state unequivocally that Getz has brought about foundational change in the front office. We don't and can't know this yet. Yet. We need actual evidence that Getz's efforts to change the White Sox FO modus operandi is working, and it's too soon to know either way. 

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It seems that multiple people took it this way. Criticize and question Getz all you want. Let me know when you're going to start. I'll give you heart emojis to show my support. 

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:06 AM, WestEddy said:

The Sox were dead in the water with international scouting until Paddy came along. Paddy did get them jump started again, got them right into the Cuban pro market, but then he stalled. If you start a business, then hire a manager to manage a small group of people, then find that manager wasn't a good hire, do you shut down the business, or try to hire the right person?

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Is there some mid level bureaucrat from a failing portion of the business that I can promote without interviewing anyone else?

[Y2Jimmy0]

  On 2/17/2025 at 10:59 PM, GreenSox said:

Shirley was Hahn's last director of amateur scouting, and he still is director.   Some say that Haber was making some of the picks instead of Shirley, and that's obviously not happening anymore.

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Mike Shirley is actually good at his job though. Lots of others were replaced. He did draft Chris Getz though haha 

  On 2/17/2025 at 11:52 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Look man, you can mock everyone who has seen the last 45 years of ownership, complete with every lie to the fans, every broke promise to the base, every company line planted to the eager faithful parrots, and every single vow to be different, and eat it up. That's fine.  You absolutely should not be surprised by those who have seen this exact same behavior in the past and who have learned a healthy skepticism from it.  Some of us will wait for results before declaring everything fixed.

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Being skeptical of ownership is totally warranted. Jerry is awful. It’s a very different organization right now though below ownership. 

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:18 AM, Tnetennba said:

This is nice to hear, but podcasting and writing for our respective blogs don't equate to multiple journalists reporting on said front office change as a specific poster claimed. This isn't a shot across anyone's bow.   I have nothing but respect for those out there hustling to get truthful information from an insular org, or who care enough to write/blog/pod about a sorry-ass franchise in our spare time.

 

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I mean Rosenthal and Passan wrote entire articles on the organizational change. Merkin, DVS and others reported heavily on the research and development, international and hitting infrastructure hires. This info has been out there for anyone who was interested in being open minded. 

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:32 AM, Tnetennba said:

You completely misread my statement. I'm not attacking Fegan, he is legit and one of the better credentialed writers to cover this sorry ass team. I'm debunking @WestEddy's unsubstantiated claims used in an attempt to dunk on me for questioning his almighty holiness Chris Getz.

I will continue to stand by my statement that it is premature to state unequivocally that Getz has brought about foundational change in the front office. We don't and can't know this yet. Yet. We need actual evidence that Getz's efforts to change the White Sox FO modus operandi is working, and it's too soon to know either way. 

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We don’t know if it’ll work because they ultimately need to develop players. However, they’ve put themselves in a much better position and situation to actually be able to develop players. 

[Snopek]

Three things are true:

1) They are introducing new ideas to an organization that has notoriously been stubborn and behind the times. This is objectively a good thing.

2) Unless it yields tangible positive results, it’s just another organizational failure.

3) Time needs to pass before any of us know how this all shakes out.

 

That’s all there is to it. Why is this even an argument?

[chitownsportsfan]

  On 2/18/2025 at 12:50 AM, Snopek said:

Three things are true:

1) They are introducing new ideas to an organization that has notoriously been stubborn and behind the times. This is objectively a good thing.

2) Unless it yields tangible positive results, it’s just another organizational failure.

3) Time needs to pass before any of us know how this all shakes out.

 

That’s all there is to it. Why is this even an argument?

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Because a certain subset of fans Want to Believe. And Want Others to Believe. Imma wait and see.