baseball_gal_aly Posted February 18 Share Posted February 18 On 2/18/2025 at 11:40 PM, Chicago White Sox said: It’s not even revisionist theory. It’s simply people who didn’t like Thorpe at the time of the Cease trade grasping at straws to confirm their pre-conceived notions. They love highlighting the last couple major league starts he got beat up (likely while injured) but ignore his extensive track record of minor league success. I can totally get being concerned that Thorpe’s margin of error will be thin because his fastball is a fringe offering, but the immediate need to a write a player over a small sample size (again, while likely injured) is just absurd. Expand I will allow Thorpe to change my mind if he can be successful, but that would make him a unicorn in today's game. These are the same circular arguments we had last year. Instead of berating others as ridiculous, why don't you just acknowledge the valid concern that his fastball just isn't up to par in MLB in 2025. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lyle Moooton Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 11:57 PM, baseball_gal_aly said: I will allow Thorpe to change my mind if he can be successful, but that would make him a unicorn in today's game. These are the same circular arguments we had last year. Instead of berating others as ridiculous, why don't you just acknowledge the valid concern that his fastball just isn't up to par in MLB in 2025. Expand Oh thank god you kind, kind soul. 3 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 11:49 PM, Bob Sacamano said: I don’t think it’s that wild to say that since he doesn’t throw hard, he has to have that much more control and hit his spots to be successful. A lot of misses over the heart of the plate and he will get hit around. Having said that, I’m not writing him off now. It’s too early. Expand But that’s not what’s been said Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 11:49 PM, Bob Sacamano said: I don’t think it’s that wild to say that since he doesn’t throw hard, he has to have that much more control and hit his spots to be successful. A lot of misses over the heart of the plate and he will get hit around. Having said that, I’m not writing him off now. It’s too early. Expand I think this is a perfect post regarding Thorpe and what needs to happen for him to be successful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 11:57 PM, baseball_gal_aly said: I will allow Thorpe to change my mind if he can be successful, but that would make him a unicorn in today's game. These are the same circular arguments we had last year. Instead of berating others as ridiculous, why don't you just acknowledge the valid concern that his fastball just isn't up to par in MLB in 2025. Expand Because I don’t zero in on one attribute and say a pitcher will fail. Double plus changeup and plus overall command gives him a profile that can work with either minor improvement to the 4 seamer or some repertoire enhancements. The good thing is that we have Brian Bannister who was a key influence in us targeting Thorpe and likely has broader plans for him. But again, I’d be worried the world was on the brink of imploding if you actually made a post that didn’t anchor off of Murphy’s Law. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
baseball_gal_aly Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 12:16 AM, Chicago White Sox said: Because I don’t zero in on one attribute and say a pitcher will fail. Double plus changeup and plus overall command gives him a profile that can work with either minor improvement to the 4 seamer or some repertoire enhancements. The good thing is that we have Brian Bannister who was a key influence in us targeting Thorpe and likely has broader plans for him. But again, I’d be worried the world was on the brink of imploding if you actually made a post that didn’t anchor off of Murphy’s Law. Expand Fair Enough. Murphy was an optimist lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxBlanco Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 9:45 PM, Autumn Dreamin said: This one? https://www.mlb.com/video/yoan-moncada-singles-on-a-fly-ball-to-center-fielder-mauricio-dubon-adam-engel-s He had also gotten a go-ahead hit late the night before. Expand Yep. You nailed it. Thank you. Wasn’t a division game like I thought. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 12:26 AM, SoxBlanco said: Yep. You nailed it. Thank you. Wasn’t a division game like I thought. Expand Everyone likes beating Houston 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 4:32 PM, Y2Jimmy0 said: Like Garrett Crochet? Expand Don't you know Crochet getting good was 100 % all Crochet ? That's what I've been told. I've had this discussion many times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) On 2/19/2025 at 4:08 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: Don't you know Crochet getting good was 100 % all Crochet ? That's what I've been told. I've had this discussion many times. Expand I don’t think it’s a crazy argument. Do guys that are aces or potential aces need that much development time or do they just always have the talent and would be good without much or any guidance? Sale and Crochet had just over 10 innings in the minors before they were called up. Both were good in the majors immediately. Obviously, they are getting mentored by a pitching coach during those 10 innings or so in the minors and then in the majors, but are there just some starters with such good stuff and command/control that they would be successful with or without much development or mentoring? Edited February 19 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 4:33 PM, T R U said: There's absolutely players in MLB who don't love baseball and just play it because they are good at it and its a job that pays a ridiculous salary. That strikes me as Moncada. Sometimes I get that feeling about Robert as well, purely based off body language at times. Expand I specially try not to read body language or level of commitment to excellence. Caring too much and not being as good as you want to be can lead to bad body language. Also let's not forget that hitting a baseball well is 70 % failure and there are a lot of good fielders catching a lot of your good contact . It's incredibly frustrating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 10:35 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: While this is true, his strikeouts were way down and his command was still not good. He walked far too many batters and threw quite a few absolute meatballs. Expand We're just going to have wait on the great Thorpe debate but I don't even know what you are postulating here. This is true of any pitcher who might pitching with a sore body part in his arm. It's hard enough to be consistently good to MLB hitters early in your career and then add injury. Why we act like he should be considered a finished product already is kind of strange.He was a phenomally good pitcher in the minors before the Sox got him and after and in his 1st 3 starts. We act like he was a mystery until there was a book on him .It's 2025 not 1945 there's plenty of video and scouting reports on pitch mix and location to lefties and righties that can be easily obtained and coaches to game plan with the hitters . Yes movement and velocity matter but movement, deception and command of a decent number of pitches matters just as much. No one who is injured can do anything as well in any field that requires motion. You cannot effectively fake your way through pain especially at the top of your chosen sport that requires accuracy . 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 4:17 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t think it’s a crazy argument. Do guys that are aces or potential aces need that much development time or do they just always have the talent and would be good without much or any guidance? Sale and Crochet had just over 10 innings in the minors before they were called up. Both were good in the majors immediately. Obviously, they are getting mentored by a pitching coach during those 10 innings or so in the minors and then in the majors, but are there just some starters with such good stuff and command/control that they would be successful with or without much development or mentoring? Expand When the player himself credits his coaches it is a crazy argument.There's a fine line between success and failure at the top level of any sport. Body and mind must blend perfectly and can only do so in the right atmosphere of coach and player cooperation. I don't see you being so understanding of Getz failures or the Sox inability to draft and develop so it would only follow that since they have a bad history that the present has to be equally ineffectual. More false equivalencies. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 6:00 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: When the player himself credits his coaches it is a crazy argument.There's a fine line between success and failure at the top level of any sport. Body and mind must blend perfectly and can only do so in the right atmosphere of coach and player cooperation. I don't see you being so understanding of Getz failures or the Sox inability to draft and develop so it would only follow that since they have a bad history that the present has to be equally ineffectual. More false equivalencies. Expand A player will give credit to his coaches all the time, even when the coaches suck. That’s just called being a good and PC teammate. Regarding your second paragraph, no, I don’t assume success considering the Sox poor track record. But that sure was a funny way to frame it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Timmy U Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 4:17 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: I don’t think it’s a crazy argument. Do guys that are aces or potential aces need that much development time or do they just always have the talent and would be good without much or any guidance? Sale and Crochet had just over 10 innings in the minors before they were called up. Both were good in the majors immediately. Obviously, they are getting mentored by a pitching coach during those 10 innings or so in the minors and then in the majors, but are there just some starters with such good stuff and command/control that they would be successful with or without much development or mentoring? Expand Crochet’s a bad example. The league adjusted to his slider after like 5 starts last year and he started to get hit. He then worked with both Katz and Bannister to change his arsenal, including adding a cutter to work both sides of the plate and took off again. When it comes to pitch shapes and developing attack plans for pitchers, coaching does matter. That’s why pitching labs aren’t just a radar gun and a box of balls. 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 (edited) On 2/19/2025 at 11:21 AM, Timmy U said: Crochet’s a bad example. The league adjusted to his slider after like 5 starts last year and he started to get hit. He then worked with both Katz and Bannister to change his arsenal, including adding a cutter to work both sides of the plate and took off again. When it comes to pitch shapes and developing attack plans for pitchers, coaching does matter. That’s why pitching labs aren’t just a radar gun and a box of balls. Expand Common sense prevails once again. Crochet admitted to being a 1 pitch pitcher last year headed into camp . You can do that sometimes as a reliever but not as a starter. It's amazing to me that any Sox fan who is always in here should know so little about a player he's taking a stance on. Players constantly are working to improve there game and the smart one take advantage of their coaches. Noah Schultz just said things about Bannister that were extremely complimentary yet that poster would have us believe he's being disingenuous or a liar. Edited February 19 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside 2 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 11:21 AM, Timmy U said: Crochet’s a bad example. The league adjusted to his slider after like 5 starts last year and he started to get hit. He then worked with both Katz and Bannister to change his arsenal, including adding a cutter to work both sides of the plate and took off again. When it comes to pitch shapes and developing attack plans for pitchers, coaching does matter. That’s why pitching labs aren’t just a radar gun and a box of balls. Expand Agreed. There is so much past data than can be analyzed and simulations run that it takes multiple people. They also need to be familiar with each other and their individual talents. I'll assume (without any information) that our people aren't as good at that as most other teams because I'm a Sox fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 https://www.mlb.com/news/noah-schultz-brian-bannister-spring-training-advice Schultz calls Bannister magic. "Glad he's on our side." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 7:35 PM, T R U said: When we would order Portillo's to get mailed to us that's what we would do. Heat up the gravy and then you just take your beef and teabag it into the gravy for a little bit and then right onto the bread. Expand There’s gotta be a funny name for this maneuver on Urban Dictionary… 🤣 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/18/2025 at 11:57 PM, baseball_gal_aly said: I will allow Thorpe to change my mind if he can be successful, but that would make him a unicorn in today's game. These are the same circular arguments we had last year. Instead of berating others as ridiculous, why don't you just acknowledge the valid concern that his fastball just isn't up to par in MLB in 2025. Expand James Fegan comments in today's article: Quote Thorpe told us his velo more to give a feel of the intensity level he was going at. It wasn’t that he was reaching back for max effort and could only hit 85, though guys tend to sit lower when they aren’t facing hitters. Expand No paywall. Camp notes. The White Sox could be set up to fill the needs of others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold's Leg Lift Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Quote Vargas adding 20 pounds and significantly altering his stance and hand setup Expand That's what I'm talkin about. Can't wait to see some video. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 19 Author Share Posted February 19 https://www.espn.com/mlb/insider/story/_/id/43904999/mlb-2025-stock-watch-ranking-spring-training-offseason-expectation-reality Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 "Beginning with a four-inning long relief showing at Yankee Stadium, Soroka punched out seven batters. He went on to fan 15 in 9 1/3 frames over his first three relief outings. From May 18 through season’s end, Soroka pitched to a 2.75 ERA and struck out a gargantuan 39% of his opponents. That includes a two-month absence due to a shoulder strain, but Soroka returned in late September averaging an improved 94.5 mph on his heater and closed out the season with 7 1/3 shutout innings and a 13-to-2 K/BB ratio. His overall command was an issue, as Soroka walked 13% of opponents even after his move to relief." https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2024/11/2024-25-top-50-mlb-free-agents-with-predictions.html Soroka another guy who actually improved last year and was rewarded with a $9 million deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hogan873 Posted February 19 Share Posted February 19 On 2/19/2025 at 5:22 PM, WhiteSox2023 said: Expand So he's doing everything except one of the crucial things required to play a position. This is not an encouraging update. Hopefully he can start throwing soon, but I wouldn't expect him to be breaking camp with the club. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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