How's that Organizational Pitching Philosophy Coming Along?

[WestEddy]

SoxMachine article:

Lacking the funds for strikeout stuff, White Sox building a pitching staff around weak contact and weird deliveries

[WestEddy]

Law sees Sean Burke and Shane Smith as top 25 2025 impactful rookies (as well as teel and Meidroth):

The 25 MLB rookies most likely to have an impact in 2025 regular season - The Athletic

9. Sean Burke, RHP, Chicago White Sox (Top 100 Rank: Just Missed)

If Burke is healthy, he clearly belongs in Chicago’s Opening Day rotation, and he might be in the middle of it. His stuff is not the issue, with a mid-90s fastball up to 99, a plus curve, and an above-average slider/cutter hybrid; he’s just always hurt, throwing 252 total innings in three-plus years in the minors. The White Sox should start him if possible, because who knows how long he can go before he’s hurt again, and at least he’ll get a major-league salary while the White Sox get what could be one of their best starters.

Edited February 24 by WestEddy

[bmags]

The sean burke stuff is so wild. I'm kinda interested to see him pitch but I just haven't kept up at all since his weird shoulder thing.

Law also had our rule 5 pick on this as a potential rotation guy even if he starts in pen. only rule 5 guy i saw here.

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/24/2025 at 5:08 PM, bmags said:

The sean burke stuff is so wild. I'm kinda interested to see him pitch but I just haven't kept up at all since his weird shoulder thing.

Law also had our rule 5 pick on this as a potential rotation guy even if he starts in pen. only rule 5 guy i saw here.

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The divide on Burke is wild.  Law LOVES him, thinks potential mid to front line starter.  Everyone else is kind of meh.  

[Eminor3rd]

Eno Sarris is shoving him a bit too on the fantasy side of things. 

[Bob Sacamano]

  On 2/24/2025 at 5:44 PM, southsider2k5 said:

The divide on Burke is wild.  Law LOVES him, thinks potential mid to front line starter.  Everyone else is kind of meh.  

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I would take back-end innings eater solid 4th/5th starter type.

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/24/2025 at 5:53 PM, Bob Sacamano said:

I would take back-end innings eater solid 4th/5th starter type.

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Absolutely.  If you get a guy who can put up 160 innings and not get you blown out, that is a win.

[caulfield12]

Thought it was going to be about Bush and Berroa...

[Harry Chappas]

  On 2/24/2025 at 5:44 PM, southsider2k5 said:

The divide on Burke is wild.  Law LOVES him, thinks potential mid to front line starter.  Everyone else is kind of meh.  

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Sounds like where Crochet was a year ago.  I still don't think Crochet hits 100 innings in  a season again.

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/24/2025 at 7:33 PM, Harry Chappas said:

Sounds like where Crochet was a year ago.  I still don't think Crochet hits 100 innings in  a season again.

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I will be fully honest here.  Much like I was with Rodon, I would not be the person signing Garrett Crochet to a nine figure contract.  While everything went freakishly perfect last year, I would not be willing to bet on it happening again, let alone for the next 5+ years.

[bmags]

I totally get the reasonable expectations for Burke and that's totally right. But as a whole, for this team to take a step forward...someone needs to hit way beyond expectations. Last year a Ramos,  a Baldwin, they come up and fall on their face. We need someone to be better, way better, than we thought last year. And this actually happens often on other rebuilding teams. So if it's burke, cool. If it's meidroth...cool. We need one. Last year, i'd say crochet was that. but we need one with 4+ years of control to occur.

[southsider2k5]

  On 2/24/2025 at 7:40 PM, bmags said:

I totally get the reasonable expectations for Burke and that's totally right. But as a whole, for this team to take a step forward...someone needs to hit way beyond expectations. Last year a Ramos,  a Baldwin, they come up and fall on their face. We need someone to be better, way better, than we thought last year. And this actually happens often on other rebuilding teams. So if it's burke, cool. If it's meidroth...cool. We need one. Last year, i'd say crochet was that. but we need one with 4+ years of control to occur.

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While it would be nice for it to happen on the pitching side, and also way more likely based on this franchise's history for the last couple of decades, they NEED it to happen on the position player side if this rebuild is going to be shortened at all.

[Chicago White Sox]

FWIW, Fangraphs had a one-off top 25 pitching prospects by “peak projected MLB ERA” list a few months back and Burke cracked the top 25.  He’s certainly under the radar, but I think there is a real chance he has the stuff to be a legit #3 caliber starter if can stay healthy.

https://fantasy.fangraphs.com/projections-fueled-top-25-pitching-prospects-entering-2025/

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

  On 2/24/2025 at 5:44 PM, southsider2k5 said:

The divide on Burke is wild.  Law LOVES him, thinks potential mid to front line starter.  Everyone else is kind of meh.  

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I like Burke. It's not the health but the command that worries me. 

He's got a great body and arm with high end stuff. 

[WestEddy]

Not sure where to drop this. Great SoxMachine article by James Fegan on how the Sox are trying to minimize fastball usage, and more on the greater org pitching philosophy.

White Sox looking to get more burn out of bringing the heat less often

[nrockway]

  On 3/11/2025 at 7:55 PM, WestEddy said:

Not sure where to drop this. Great SoxMachine article by James Fegan on how the Sox are trying to minimize fastball usage, and more on the greater org pitching philosophy.

White Sox looking to get more burn out of bringing the heat less often

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Interesting stuff. I can see the logic of "hitters adjust to velocity, so throw the same pitch at different speeds" but then I also wonder if it isn't just better to throw it 100mph every time if you are able. Felt like Crochet was oscillating his fastball, turning up the heat when he needed to, so it seems like a fair approach, but I'd wonder about repeatability and possibly injury if you're throwing the same grip at varying velocities. Not sure how a pitcher would achieve that and be consistent.

Side note, wish they could get a chance to talk to Thorpe, or talk to Bannister or Katz about Thorpe. I wonder if the org has essentially given up on him, he's the prototype of "not bringing the heat", he throws a great changeup (2 apparent mantras of the org), yet his complete lack of a fastball will be the death of him. 

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/11/2025 at 9:16 PM, nrockway said:

Interesting stuff. I can see the logic of "hitters adjust to velocity, so throw the same pitch at different speeds" but then I also wonder if it isn't just better to throw it 100mph every time if you are able. Felt like Crochet was oscillating his fastball, turning up the heat when he needed to, so it seems like a fair approach, but I'd wonder about repeatability and possibly injury if you're throwing the same grip at varying velocities. Not sure how a pitcher would achieve that and be consistent.

Side note, wish they could get a chance to talk to Thorpe, or talk to Bannister or Katz about Thorpe. I wonder if the org has essentially given up on him, he's the prototype of "not bringing the heat", he throws a great changeup (2 apparent mantras of the org), yet his complete lack of a fastball will be the death of him. 

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Why would the org give up on Thorpe 12 months after acquiring him?

[WestEddy]

  On 3/11/2025 at 9:16 PM, nrockway said:

Interesting stuff. I can see the logic of "hitters adjust to velocity, so throw the same pitch at different speeds" but then I also wonder if it isn't just better to throw it 100mph every time if you are able. Felt like Crochet was oscillating his fastball, turning up the heat when he needed to, so it seems like a fair approach, but I'd wonder about repeatability and possibly injury if you're throwing the same grip at varying velocities. Not sure how a pitcher would achieve that and be consistent.

Side note, wish they could get a chance to talk to Thorpe, or talk to Bannister or Katz about Thorpe. I wonder if the org has essentially given up on him, he's the prototype of "not bringing the heat", he throws a great changeup (2 apparent mantras of the org), yet his complete lack of a fastball will be the death of him. 

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They give no indication they've "given up" on Thorpe. He's throwing BP, and his goal is to get to 3 innings in the next two weeks. 

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/11/2025 at 9:16 PM, nrockway said:

Interesting stuff. I can see the logic of "hitters adjust to velocity, so throw the same pitch at different speeds" but then I also wonder if it isn't just better to throw it 100mph every time if you are able. Felt like Crochet was oscillating his fastball, turning up the heat when he needed to, so it seems like a fair approach, but I'd wonder about repeatability and possibly injury if you're throwing the same grip at varying velocities. Not sure how a pitcher would achieve that and be consistent.

Side note, wish they could get a chance to talk to Thorpe, or talk to Bannister or Katz about Thorpe. I wonder if the org has essentially given up on him, he's the prototype of "not bringing the heat", he throws a great changeup (2 apparent mantras of the org), yet his complete lack of a fastball will be the death of him. 

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Where did you get this silly idea from?

[nrockway]

That’s an interesting thing to focus on. Semantics. Because they do interviews and talk about all the other guys on the staff besides Thorpe, the “star in the making ” they traded for. Some on this forum thought some cryptic comment Getz made about being ripped off in trades was about Thorpe. 
 

didn’t pull it out or no where but it’s also beside the point. Probably didn’t need 3 comments to say the same thing. I like the guy, they should talk to him and about him, yet they don’t. It’s interesting. 

Edited March 11 by nrockway

[chitownsportsfan]

I saw Thorpe in person in his debut and then watched most of his innings after. The problem isn't his velocity the problem is his command and control and lack of a 3rd pitch coupled with his velocity. . When he's got his command of his changeup he can pitch at 90-92. When he doesn't, he's going to get lit up. He's got a couple paths to being a very solid 4th starter: gain velocity or gain command and control. He does all of those maybe he even turns into a 3rd starter type. If he only does one of those things he'll be a solid 4/5.

He was always a low ceiling but decent floor guy, which whatever. Trade is done and dusted.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/11/2025 at 10:42 PM, nrockway said:

That’s an interesting thing to focus on. Semantics. Because they do interviews and talk about all the other guys on the staff besides Thorpe, the “star in the making ” they traded for. Some on this forum thought some cryptic comment Getz made about being ripped off in trades was about Thorpe. 
 

didn’t pull it out or no where but it’s also beside the point. Probably didn’t need 3 comments to say the same thing. I like the guy, they should talk to him and about him, yet they don’t. It’s interesting. 

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“Star in the making”…where is that quote from?

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/11/2025 at 10:42 PM, nrockway said:

That’s an interesting thing to focus on. Semantics. Because they do interviews and talk about all the other guys on the staff besides Thorpe, the “star in the making ” they traded for. Some on this forum thought some cryptic comment Getz made about being ripped off in trades was about Thorpe. 
 

didn’t pull it out or no where but it’s also beside the point. Probably didn’t need 3 comments to say the same thing. I like the guy, they should talk to him and about him, yet they don’t. It’s interesting. 

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So you think because they haven't trotted him out there for the dog and pony show, they don't like him?  That seems like some high school stuff right there.

[WestEddy]

  On 3/11/2025 at 10:42 PM, nrockway said:

That’s an interesting thing to focus on. Semantics. Because they do interviews and talk about all the other guys on the staff besides Thorpe, the “star in the making ” they traded for. Some on this forum thought some cryptic comment Getz made about being ripped off in trades was about Thorpe. 
 

didn’t pull it out or no where but it’s also beside the point. Probably didn’t need 3 comments to say the same thing. I like the guy, they should talk to him and about him, yet they don’t. It’s interesting. 

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I think we all just posted at the same time.

"Given up" is a strong and evocative term. Martin, Burke, Shane Smith, Schultz and Hagen Smith have had flashy outings that call for discussion. There hasn't been anything to explain where Thorpe is concerned, as he's only throwing bullpens right now. I thought Getz's comments were more about Vargas and Albertus. 

[chitownsportsfan]

  On 3/11/2025 at 11:55 PM, WestEddy said:

I think we all just posted at the same time.

"Given up" is a strong and evocative term. Martin, Burke, Shane Smith, Schultz and Hagen Smith have had flashy outings that call for discussion. There hasn't been anything to explain where Thorpe is concerned, as he's only throwing bullpens right now. I thought Getz's comments were more about Vargas and Albertus. 

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No news is good news here anyways. Dude is rehabbing an elbow issue, if he's throwing that's good.