2/27 - Guardians @ Sox - 2:05 CST

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 2/28/2025 at 1:41 AM, GreenSox said:

Fletcher, yes:  he was pretty much expected to come in and give us a 1-2 WAR OF.
But wasn't Deloach one of those guys like Cordell, who was Rule 5 eligible and one of those guys who in  all likelihood as AAA?  The more important parts of that deal were the pick and the pitcher.

And I agree - I hope some of the IFs get work in LF.

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DeLoach had an option last year and was a consensus top 16 to 25 prospect for the Mariners.  Not suggesting that is overly valuable, but he was more than just a throw in.  And one year later, he can’t hold a 40 man roster spot on a team completely devoid of OF talent.

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 2/28/2025 at 1:30 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

It’s amazing that Getz acknowledged that having some OF depth in the upper minors would prove valuable given our general lack of talent outside of Robert and yet missed horribly on the evaluations of Fletcher & DeLoach.

Honestly, I’d prefer rotating some of the infielders through LF while Andrew is out vs. giving Fletcher the job.  I’d also throw a claim at Canairo when the Mets ultimately try to sneak him through waivers.

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Canario is worth more than anyone we have to play right now for two reasons — age (24) and power potential.  I would rather see what he can do than a 27 year old Fletcher that has zero power and a 26 year old Colas that has trouble catching pop flies.  DeLoach is as old as Colas and no other MLB wanted him when he was DFA.  I would not be surprised if no team has interest in Colas either if he is DFA.

All the more reason that Getz should have traded for 24 year old Canario, and don’t forget that he only cost cash considerations and a 40-man roster spot.

I still can’t believe there is even a question of what Getz should have done here — you have a 100 loss team and you are going to sign and start a platoon of two 32+ year old right fielders along with a sunk cost bloated contract in Benintendi in LF.

No, if you are a GM with a clue, you claim the 24 year old outfielder in Canario and kick Colas or Slater to the curb.  Then, you either wait until another outfielder gets injured or your trade Robert to get Canario more playing time or another outfielder like Benintendi gets injured.

Are the Sox going to trade Tauchman and Slater for a better prospect than Canario?  I highly doubt it…

And remember this — I don’t give a crap if Canario busts out.  It is worth the try, when the other options are Tauchman, Slater, Fletcher, Colas, etc.

Edited February 28 by WhiteSox2023

[caulfield12]

  On 2/28/2025 at 3:04 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Canario is worth more than anyone we have to play right now for two reasons — age (24) and power potential.  I would rather see what he can do than a 27 year old Fletcher that has zero power and a 26 year old Colas that has trouble catching pop flies.  DeLoach is as old as Colas and no other MLB wanted him when he was DFA.  I would not be surprised if no team has interest in Colas either if he is DFA.

All the more reason that Getz should have traded for 24 year old Canario, and don’t forget that he only cost cash considerations and a 40-man roster spot.

I still can’t believe there is even a question of what Getz should have done here — you have a 100 loss team and you are going to sign and start a platoon of two 32+ year old right fielders along with a sunk cost bloated contract in Benintendi in LF.

No, if you are a GM with a clue, you claim the 24 year old outfielder in Canario and kick Colas or Slater to the curb.  Then, you either wait until another outfielder gets injured or your trade Robert to get Canario more playing time or another outfielder like Benintendi gets injured.

Are the Sox going to trade Tauchman and Slater for a better prospect than Canario?  I highly doubt it…

And remember this — I don’t give a crap if Canario busts out.  It is worth the try, when the other options are Tauchman, Slater, Fletcher, Colas, etc.

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https://www.fangraphs.com/players/calvin-mitchell/22169/stats?position=OF

You're forgetting once upon a time 2nd round draft pick Cal Mitchell.

Yet another negative career fWAR guy for the Sox to tout.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/canaan-smith-njigba/23264/stats?position=OF

Still listed as a FA.

Edited February 28 by caulfield12

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 2/28/2025 at 5:06 AM, caulfield12 said:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/calvin-mitchell/22169/stats?position=OF

You're forgetting once upon a time 2nd round draft pick Cal Mitchell.

Yet another negative career fWAR guy for the Sox to tout.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/canaan-smith-njigba/23264/stats?position=OF

Still listed as a FA.

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WSox2023 other flavor of the month to prove Getz is an idiot. He sure makes a big stink out of nothing. Maybe sooner or later someone he once touted will be a player. But I did agree with him about Canario.

But if you ditch a guy like Deloach or Colas for Canario then you have 2 players you can cry about to show Getz incompetence.

What an idiot he dumped Colas, what an idiot he didn't pick up Canario if either one turns into a player eventually .Quite impressive he gets to call Getz an idiot now or later over a bunch of nobody's or nobody's now who becomes a one season or even a one month wonder later. And you know he will. I can't keep track of all the guys Getz could've got in trades or guys he cut that the guy has whined about.

Getz is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course some will turn out better than others over short periods of time. There's no way to tell who is going to be a better retread. Chances are most marginal players remain marginal.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/1/2025 at 12:48 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

WSox2023 other flavor of the month to prove Getz is an idiot. He sure makes a big stink out of nothing. Maybe sooner or later someone he once touted will be a player. But I did agree with him about Canario.

But if you ditch a guy like Deloach or Colas for Canario then you have 2 players you can cry about to show Getz incompetence.

What an idiot he dumped Colas, what an idiot he didn't pick up Canario if either one turns into a player eventually .Quite impressive he gets to call Getz an idiot now or later over a bunch of nobody's or nobody's now who becomes a one season or even a one month wonder later. And you know he will. I can't keep track of all the guys Getz could've got in trades or guys he cut that the guy has whined about.

Getz is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course some will turn out better than others over short periods of time. There's no way to tell who is going to be a better retread. Chances are most marginal players remain marginal.

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Luke Keaschall!!!

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 2/28/2025 at 2:04 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

DeLoach had an option last year and was a consensus top 16 to 25 prospect for the Mariners.  Not suggesting that is overly valuable, but he was more than just a throw in.  And one year later, he can’t hold a 40 man roster spot on a team completely devoid of OF talent.

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And he was Zach DeFA’ed and no other team was willing to take a chance on him for basically free other than a roster spot so he remained a White Sox.  Worth a shot but obviously the wrong trade target.

Edited March 1 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 12:48 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

WSox2023 other flavor of the month to prove Getz is an idiot. He sure makes a big stink out of nothing. Maybe sooner or later someone he once touted will be a player. But I did agree with him about Canario.

But if you ditch a guy like Deloach or Colas for Canario then you have 2 players you can cry about to show Getz incompetence.

What an idiot he dumped Colas, what an idiot he didn't pick up Canario if either one turns into a player eventually .Quite impressive he gets to call Getz an idiot now or later over a bunch of nobody's or nobody's now who becomes a one season or even a one month wonder later. And you know he will. I can't keep track of all the guys Getz could've got in trades or guys he cut that the guy has whined about.

Getz is scraping the bottom of the barrel. Of course some will turn out better than others over short periods of time. There's no way to tell who is going to be a better retread. Chances are most marginal players remain marginal.

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You sure make a big stink about what others say about this big stinky team.  It’s funny considering you are also the same guy who made numerous posts about James Outman and Stone Garrett during the 2022 offseason.

But I do agree with you — it’s stupid to play mid 30’s veterans in the outfield in what will be yet another 100 loss season rather than young outfielders.

Edited March 1 by WhiteSox2023

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/1/2025 at 4:41 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

You sure make a big stink about what others say about this big stinky team.  It’s also stupid to play mid 30’s veterans in RF in what will be yet another 100 loss season rather than young outfielders.

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Losing 120 games again would also be stupid if you’re Chris Getz

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 4:44 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Losing 120 games again would also be stupid if you’re Chris Getz

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Early signs are the offense he built this offseason is putrid enough to do it again.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/1/2025 at 4:47 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Early signs are the offense he built this offseason is putrid enough to do it again.

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Getting 2 wins out of RF vs. the -2 we got last year would certainly be a good start in avoiding that.

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 4:56 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Getting 2 wins out of RF vs. the -2 we got last year would certainly be a good start in avoiding that.

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But you don’t know if the Sox couldn’t get 2 wins out of a different younger outfielder.

And how is 2 wins from an over-the-hill platoon of Tauchman and Slater even a given?  It sure wasn’t last year and these guys are just another year older.

Mike Tauchman:  0.6 bWAR in 2024

Austin Slater:  -0.2 bWAR in 2024

These guys could very easily tank worse this season like most vets that the Sox acquire on the cheap year after year.

Edited March 1 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 4:40 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

And he was Zach DeFA’ed and no other team was willing to take a chance on him for basically free other than a roster spot so he remained a White Sox.  Worth a shot but obviously the wrong trade target.

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A 40-man roster spot, especially when it means cutting another player, is so not "basically free". DeLoach is a replacement level player. Equal to every team's 3-4 replacement level OFs. 

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:04 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

But you don’t know if the Sox couldn’t get 2 wins out of a different younger outfielder.

And how is 2 wins from an over-the-hill platoon of Tauchman and Slater even a given?  It sure wasn’t last year and these guys are just another year older.

Mike Tauchman:  0.6 bWAR in 2024

Austin Slater:  -0.2 bWAR in 2024

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And the year before that, Tauchman was worth 2.4 bWAR, and Slater, 0.7. Tauchman and Slater aren't "over the hill".  Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over doesn't make it true. Weird how you mock people for using small sample sizes but completely ignore Canario's paltry 45 pro PAs. 

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:27 PM, WestEddy said:

A 40-man roster spot, especially when it means cutting another player, is so not "basically free". DeLoach is a replacement level player. Equal to every team's 3-4 replacement level OFs. 

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If a team thought DeLoach had any value, they could find a worse player on their 40-man roster to drop for him.  That didn’t happen with all other 29 teams.

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:33 PM, WestEddy said:

And the year before that, Tauchman was worth 2.4 bWAR, and Slater, 0.7. Tauchman and Slater aren't "over the hill".  Just because you keep repeating something over and over and over doesn't make it true. Weird how you mock people for using small sample sizes but completely ignore Canario's paltry 45 pro PAs. 

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So we should just assume that a 34 year old and a 32 year old can reach the numbers they had when they were two years younger?  Old guys don’t usually improve; however, 24 years olds can.

I also never once mentioned anything about Canario’s stats one way or the other, outside of his minor league stats.  He hasn’t had enough at bats in the majors to prove anything, one way or the other.

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:43 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

If a team thought DeLoach had any value, they could find a worse player on their 40-man roster to drop for him.  That didn’t happen with all other 29 teams.

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No, if a team thought DeLoach was measurably better than any OF they had in their system, they could find a worse player to cut. Teams don't just grab up guys because they think they have "value". There's an entire 40-man roster to navigate. And if a team already thinks they have 3 guys better than DeLoach, why would they claim him? Just to prove that Chris Getz is an imbecile?

Tell me about this "value" you think DeLoach should have. 

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:52 PM, WestEddy said:

No, if a team thought DeLoach was measurably better than any OF they had in their system, they could find a worse player to cut. Teams don't just grab up guys because they think they have "value". There's an entire 40-man roster to navigate. And if a team already thinks they have 3 guys better than DeLoach, why would they claim him? Just to prove that Chris Getz is an imbecile?

Tell me about this "value" you think DeLoach should have. 

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He was DFA’ed already so next to none.  That trade has taken a turn for the worse.

Edited March 1 by WhiteSox2023

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:47 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

So we should just assume that a 34 year old and a 32 year old can reach the numbers they had when they were two years younger?  Old guys don’t usually improve; however, 24 years olds can.

I also never once mentioned anything about Canario’s stats one way or the other, outside of his minor league stats.  He hasn’t had enough at bats in the majors to prove anything, one way or the other.

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As Cali pointed out, you pick any player who gets DFAed, then pretend he's better than what we already have under contract, just so you can beat everyone over the head with that. 

Yes, you can assume that a pro outfielder can put up something close to what they have in the recent past. Tauchman put up 1.1 fWAR just last year, and I don't know what Slater's story is. Was he injured? He played for 3 teams, and I think Fuller suggested taking a flier on him because of the work they did in Baltimore. Canario does have impressive minor league stats, but as you suggest with DeLoach, 27 other teams took a look at him, basically for free, and decided he had no value. 

Here's what Fangraphs had to say about Canario last year:

"Canario’s swing-and-miss issues give us substantial pause when it comes to projecting his role. His tendency to misidentify sliders against righty pitchers destabilizes his entire profile and is probably going to limit his role to the short side of a platoon where he’s mostly facing lefties."

Devil you know vs. devil you don't know. They've worked with Fletcher and Colas. Canario is a wild card. Sure, I'd have loved for the Sox to have taken a flier on him instead of Michael A. Taylor, or even Slater, but that's what we have. I don't think that means Chris Getz is a moron. I think it means that Getz, like most GMs, trusts proven major league talent over AAAA guys, especially when you're trying to not set the loss record 2 years in a row. 

ADDED: Oh, and Canario didn't even make Fangraphs' top 38 Cub prospects this year. He still appears to be ROY eligible. 

Edited March 1 by WestEddy

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:02 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

He was DFA’ed already so next time none.  That trade has taken a turn for the worse.

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Being DFAed doesn't mean a player has no "value". You're ignoring all of the factors that go into teams having to navigate their own 40-man rosters. 

Canario won't make the Mets' 26-man roster, so they'll have to try to sneak him through waivers again at the end of spring training. If the Mets thread the needle and catch the league during end of ST roster cuts, Canario could clear waivers and be assigned to AAA. And to you, that would mean he's a worthless bum who has no business stepping on a baseball diamond. 

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:07 PM, WestEddy said:

As Cali pointed out, you pick any player who gets DFAed, then pretend he's better than what we already have under contract, just so you can beat everyone over the head with that. 

Yes, you can assume that a pro outfielder can put up something close to what they have in the recent past. Tauchman put up 1.1 fWAR just last year, and I don't know what Slater's story is. Was he injured? He played for 3 teams, and I think Fuller suggested taking a flier on him because of the work they did in Baltimore. Canario does have impressive minor league stats, but as you suggest with DeLoach, 27 other teams took a look at him, basically for free, and decided he had no value. 

Here's what Fangraphs had to say about Canario last year:

"Canario’s swing-and-miss issues give us substantial pause when it comes to projecting his role. His tendency to misidentify sliders against righty pitchers destabilizes his entire profile and is probably going to limit his role to the short side of a platoon where he’s mostly facing lefties."

Devil you know vs. devil you don't know. They've worked with Fletcher and Colas. Canario is a wild card. Sure, I'd have loved for the Sox to have taken a flier on him instead of Michael A. Taylor, or even Slater, but that's what we have. I don't think that means Chris Getz is a moron. I think it means that Getz, like most GMs, trusts proven major league talent over AAAA guys, especially when you're trying to not set the loss record 2 years in a row. 

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That isn’t my point at all.  My point is that in yet another expected horrible losing season like last year, a crappy team like the White Sox is better served starting a young player in the outfield over an old man RF platoon.  Even if the young player doesn’t pan out, it’s worth the shot to see what could happen.  Oh God forbid, the Sox lose 100 games starting a guy like Canario instead if 98 games with a Tauchman/Slater platoon!  The point is that it wouldn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things.  Tauchman and Slater aren’t going to be traded for anything of value anyways.

Edited March 1 by WhiteSox2023

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:16 PM, WestEddy said:

Being DFAed doesn't mean a player has no "value". You're ignoring all of the factors that go into teams having to navigate their own 40-man rosters. 

Canario won't make the Mets' 26-man roster, so they'll have to try to sneak him through waivers again at the end of spring training. If the Mets thread the needle and catch the league during end of ST roster cuts, Canario could clear waivers and be assigned to AAA. And to you, that would mean he's a worthless bum who has no business stepping on a baseball diamond. 

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It isn’t the same situation.  DeLoach was cut during the offseason before teams had finalized their rosters, yet no team wanted him.  Canario was cut at the beginning of ST when teams already had filled their rosters, yet a team (Mets) still chose to acquire him.

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:17 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

That isn’t my point at all.  My point is that in yet another expected horrible losing season like last year, a crappy team like the White Sox is better served starting a young player in the outfield over an old man RF platoon.  Even if the young player doesn’t pan out, it’s worth the shot to see what could happen.  Oh God forbid, the Sox lose 100 games starting a guy like Canario instead if 98 games with a Tauchman/Slater platoon!  The point is that it wouldn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things.  Tauchman and Slater aren’t going to be traded for anything of value anyways.

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The implication of the Sox taking a pass on Canario is that they already know what could happen. They already know what could happen with Julks, Fletcher, DeLoach and Colas. Throw Cal Mitchell on that pile, too. Maybe they'll be wrong. But it seems like, if Chris Getz is wrong, so was most of the league. 

They're going to get good looks at Vargas and Sosa this year. Maybe even Meidroth, Baldwin, Bryan Ramos....maybe Tim Elko? They'll have 3 home-grown rookies in the rotation. Ellard, Varland, Leasure, Shane Smith - that's half of their bullpen. They could get full looks at 13+ prospects this season, probably even more with Quero/Teel, C. Monty, Thorpe, Nastrini, Eder, Wikelman, Iriarte. Fletcher probably has a clear shot at playing time in April. All they're doing is looking at rookies, and you're mad about them not taking a hit starting an unknown rookie at one position.

"41-121!!!" seems to be an argument ender, here. So maybe there is some value in not giving the fanbase "40-122!!!" to post all winter. 

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/1/2025 at 5:04 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

But you don’t know if the Sox couldn’t get 2 wins out of a different younger outfielder.

And how is 2 wins from an over-the-hill platoon of Tauchman and Slater even a given?  It sure wasn’t last year and these guys are just another year older.

Mike Tauchman:  0.6 bWAR in 2024

Austin Slater:  -0.2 bWAR in 2024

These guys could very easily tank worse this season like most vets that the Sox acquire on the cheap year after year.

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They could and they will be cut if they struggle.  But until someone actually forces the issue, you might as well throw them out there and hope they can provide league average production on the cheap.  Unfortunately we don’t have any OF prospects in the upper minors who look like they are even replacement level.

[WestEddy]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:23 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

It isn’t the same situation.  DeLoach was cut during the offseason before teams had finalized their rosters, yet no team wanted him.  Canario was cut at the beginning of ST when teams already had filled their rosters, yet a team (Mets) still chose to acquire him.

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DeLoach cleared waivers one week before pitchers and catchers reported. The off-season was pretty much over. 29 other teams thought Canario was a worthless bum who should have reported to one of those fantasy camps with the old men.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/1/2025 at 6:17 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

That isn’t my point at all.  My point is that in yet another expected horrible losing season like last year, a crappy team like the White Sox is better served starting a young player in the outfield over an old man RF platoon.  Even if the young player doesn’t pan out, it’s worth the shot to see what could happen.  Oh God forbid, the Sox lose 100 games starting a guy like Canario instead if 98 games with a Tauchman/Slater platoon!  The point is that it wouldn’t matter much in the grand scheme of things.  Tauchman and Slater aren’t going to be traded for anything of value anyways.

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If they lose 120 games again you and everyone else will have their pitchforks and torches ready to go.  You keep ignoring that no credible GM is going to hand 600 plate appearances to a player they don’t believe in simply because they are young.  And it’s very clear Getz doesn’t believe in Canario or he would have offered something more than cash for him.  And beyond the job security element that you don’t want to acknowledge, there is some value in having a few spots in the lineup with higher floor veterans.  Again, I too would prefer a younger player get the opportunity in RF, but there isn’t anyone worthy of the job.  A Tauchman/Slater platoon is a perfectly fine cheap placeholder until something better presents itself.