ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 3:35 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: Crystal ball? Earlier in this thread, you basically stated that Canario has zero shot of contributing as a major leaguer. Meanwhile, Slater was absolutely terrible last season to the tune of a -0.2 bWAR, but you are sure he’s the better option to put up professional at bats? Expand Crystal ball in regards to the comment about "and he's injured" Read the paragraph where Crystal ball is mentioned Edited March 4 by ptatc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:29 AM, ptatc said: Ok. Still better than the kid. Expand I am not at all convinced of that, especially when control and age is factored in. The kid has years to figure it, vs a rando in yet another 100 loss seasons, which should be the point. It's not about 2025. It's about 2030. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:36 AM, southsider2k5 said: I am not at all convinced of that, especially when control and age is factored in. The kid has years to figure it, vs a rando in yet another 100 loss seasons, which should be the point. It's not about 2025. It's about 2030. Expand That's fine you don't need to be convinced. Im going by what the propect experts have said. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 3:36 AM, southsider2k5 said: I am not at all convinced of that, especially when control and age is factored in. The kid has years to figure it, vs a rando in yet another 100 loss seasons, which should be the point. It's not about 2025. It's about 2030. Expand This is the entire point. There is zero reason to give playing time to a mediocre 32 year old veteran outfielder who will be gone in a season or less over giving a shot to a 24 year old outfielder with power potential. If Canario sucks, oh well. If he does well, you may have an outfielder for the future, or at least a platoon outfielder to face lefties. Ultimately, it is worth the shot seeing what he can do over what Slater is going to provide in another 100 loss season. Edited March 4 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:40 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: This is the entire point. There is zero reason to give playing time to a mediocre 32 year old veteran outfielder who will be gone in a season or less over giving a shot to a 24 year old outfielder with power potential. If Canario sucks, oh well. If he does well, you may have an outfielder for the future, or at least a platoon outfielder to face lefties. Ultimately, it is worth the shot seeing what he can do over what Slater is going to provide in another 100 loss season. Expand If he sucks oh well? You were one of the biggest fans of the Fletcher trade and now rip Getz to shreds for making it. Are you seriously going to pretend you’d give him a free pass if Canario sucks as well? You will demand Getz be fired the moment Canario fails if we were to actually trade something to acquire him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 4:55 AM, Chicago White Sox said: If he sucks oh well? You were one of the biggest fans of the Fletcher trade and now rip Getz to shreds for making it. Are you seriously going to pretend you’d give him a free pass if Canario sucks as well? You will demand Getz be fired the moment Canario fails if we were to actually trade something to acquire him. Expand Why are you comparing two acquisitions in which when one (Fletcher) cost a prospect and one (Canario) only cost cash considerations? Your scenario does not match the reality of what happened. If Canario were to fail, he only cost cash considerations, a 40-man roster spot, and some at bats, and the Sox have enough junk on their 40-man that they could have made room for him. If Meidroth is a bust, are you going to tell yourself that he wasn’t a bad trade target just because you thought he was a good one? That’s not how it works. Getz and his team have way more access to data on players than we do and it’s their job to pick the right ones, not yours or mine. It’s not like I said I’d move to another city if Fletcher is a bust. That would make no sense. Jerry isn’t paying me to be the Sox GM. He gifted the job to Getz. The onus is on him, not me. Many people also liked the Santos trade and now it looks pretty mediocre. You have been defending Slater’s acquisition this offseason — like I asked earlier, what does he really do for this team with where it is at? You said 2 potential wins. Well, if the Tauchman and Slater platoon end up winning the Sox 2 games in a 100 loss season, the only guy who will ultimately care and remember those meaningless wins is probably Greg, cuz of course — “just win baby!” Edited March 4 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:36 AM, southsider2k5 said: I am not at all convinced of that, especially when control and age is factored in. The kid has years to figure it, vs a rando in yet another 100 loss seasons, which should be the point. It's not about 2025. It's about 2030. Expand So, we should pick up Canario, and start him for the next 6 seasons, regardless of what he hits? Makes sense. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 5:31 AM, WestEddy said: So, we should pick up Canario, and start him for the next 6 seasons, regardless of what he hits? Makes sense. Expand No, that would be crazy. Obviously he would get the same shot as every other young player and performance would matter. Regardless, is Slater going to be around for the next 6 seasons? But I would love to see Getz nab Canario or any other interesting young player that gets cut loose before the season starts, even if they require a roster spot. The Sox have bad players on their roster that they can afford to cut. Edited March 4 by WhiteSox2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hi8is Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 He fits right in!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 (edited) On 3/4/2025 at 3:40 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: This is the entire point. There is zero reason to give playing time to a mediocre 32 year old veteran outfielder who will be gone in a season or less over giving a shot to a 24 year old outfielder with power potential. If Canario sucks, oh well. If he does well, you may have an outfielder for the future, or at least a platoon outfielder to face lefties. Ultimately, it is worth the shot seeing what he can do over what Slater is going to provide in another 100 loss season. Expand It's like the 7 other times people explained to you why Canario doesn't make sense for the Sox never happened. LOL. We're probably starting 3 players with less than a full season's service time on offense. You're going to have 3 pitchers with similar service time in the rotation. Fangraphs also guestimates 5-7 rookie/pre-arb pitchers in the bullpen. It makes total sense to anchor a couple of positions with seasoned veterans when most of the rest of your roster is going to be rookies. He's an interesting prospect. The Sox probably looked at him, and either didn't like the profile, or felt they weren't in a position to help him pick up his contact rate or cut down on the strike outs. And if Canario sucks, you will be screaming at the entire board about how Getz made another mistake. Go back and read the prospect reports on Canario. Here's a refresher from Fangraphs: "Canario’s swing-and-miss issues give us substantial pause when it comes to projecting his role. His tendency to misidentify sliders against righty pitchers destabilizes his entire profile and is probably going to limit his role to the short side of a platoon where he’s mostly facing lefties. He’s best at hitting hanging breakers and spraying high fastballs the opposite way. A stiff lower half makes it tough for Canario to bend and do damage in the bottom of the zone" Keith Law wrote: He’s got big power, with 37 homers in 2022 and strong exit velocities to back it up, with a lot of swing and miss. He wants the fastball, and swings hard, leaving him vulnerable to anything that isn’t a fastball. It’s corner outfield, with the plus arm for right but limited range, and if he plays every day it might be 30 homers with a .290 OBP or less. That’s not really a regular, but someone teams will keep taking fliers on. Northsidebaseball wrote: The hard-hitting outfield prospect, Alexander Canario, is in a very weird position in the Cubs' organization. On the surface, Canario had a pretty good year in Iowa, hitting 18 home runs in under 300 plate appearances while posting an isolated slugging over .270 and an overall line good for 116 wRC+. However, a longer look at the righty gives you some pause as to what he can be moving forward. Canario's sub 63% contact rate was nearly 10% below that of the Triple-A average, and if he carried over the same contact rate to the MLB (which, considering the jump in talent, would be hard to do), would put him below every qualified hitter at the level. The results at Iowa suggest one thing, but the processes suggest another. FutureStarsSeries wrote: Canario has produced better batting averages and on-base marks than his contact rates suggest are repeatable, but he did it again in Triple-A last year once he got healthy. Edited March 4 by WestEddy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 Will be interesting to see what the Mets end up doing with him. Sounds like it’s down to him and Starling Marte for one opening day roster spot. “Mets have 'decision to make' on new outfielder Alexander Canario” Quote The Mets like outfielder Alexander Canario enough that they paid the Cubs $100,000 to acquire him in a trade Tuesday. Over the next several weeks, they’ll ask themselves: Do they like him so much that they will put him on the roster? Canario, 24, is out of minor-league options, so the Mets can’t simply stash him in Triple-A Syracuse once the regular season begins. They might try to sneak him through waivers at a time of year when some clubs don’t have room to claim a player. It is possible that he will make the Opening Day club, even if he doesn’t have an obvious path right now. Expand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 6:44 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: Will be interesting to see what the Mets end up doing with him. Sounds like it’s down to him and Starling Marte for one opening day roster spot. “Mets have 'decision to make' on new outfielder Alexander Canario” Expand White Sox could take on Marte contract and a prospect but JR is still in charge as far as we know... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:38 AM, ptatc said: That's fine you don't need to be convinced. Im going by what the propect experts have said. Expand The prospect experts have Slater being around this team for years? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 5:31 AM, WestEddy said: So, we should pick up Canario, and start him for the next 6 seasons, regardless of what he hits? Makes sense. Expand You might want to respond to the post that thinks a 32 year old free agent will be. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:00 PM, southsider2k5 said: The prospect experts have Slater being around this team for years? Expand No, he is not a prospect thus prospect experts wouldn't be commenting in him. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 5:05 AM, WhiteSox2023 said: The onus is on him, not me. Expand I would think that if you're going to post over and over and over that Canario is the answer to everything that ails the South Side, yes, the onus is on you to present any evidence that Canario is a breakthrough candidate. I've posted multiple scouting reports noting that Canario has a big swing and miss problem. Contact rates that will not play in the majors. In his 45 PA in the majors, he has a BABIP of about .450. That is not sustainable, by any means. These are clear reasons why 29 other teams took a pass on rostering him on the pro squad. You ignore this, and since it won't happen, it's a new cudgel you get to beat everyone over the head with regularly. If Canario gets a shot with the Mets and fails miserably, you will reason that you don't have to make sense because you're not a GM. When presented with the notion that Getz has looked at all the data not available to you (here's your quote on that - "Getz and his team have way more access to data on players than we do and it’s their job to pick the right ones, not yours or mine.'), you then proclaim that nothing Getz "thinks" should matter. You just want your way. The onus is on you to at least make sense, and answer the reasons laid out to quell your confusion with something clearer than the regular sports talk mumbo jumbo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:01 PM, ptatc said: No, he is not a prospect thus prospect experts wouldn't be commenting in him. Expand Cool, which is quite literally my point. Even if Slater is marginally better than this other kid in 2025, it doesn't matter. 2025 is a lost year. I care about the future, and not yet another in a string of 100 loss seasons, and have the goal of amassing as much longer term talent as possible. If he fails, he fails, but he still has a better chance of being around when the Sox are decent again than Slater does. I will never understand wasting 2025 ABs on short term anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 3:01 PM, southsider2k5 said: You might want to respond to the post that thinks a 32 year old free agent will be. Expand Nobody expects Slater to be around for 6 years. He's here to fill a hole for 4 months, 6 tops. I've presented multiple scouting write-ups that say Canario has a big swing and miss problem and contacts rates that will not play in the bigs. The response seems to be that he's 24, and must start until another 24-year-old comes available on the waiver wire. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:06 PM, WestEddy said: Nobody expects Slater to be around for 6 years. He's here to fill a hole for 4 months, 6 tops. I've presented multiple scouting write-ups that say Canario has a big swing and miss problem and contacts rates that will not play in the bigs. The response seems to be that he's 24, and must start until another 24-year-old comes available on the waiver wire. Expand Cool, you get his point now. No need to keep chasing him around then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:03 PM, southsider2k5 said: Cool, which is quite literally my point. Even if Slater is marginally better than this other kid in 2025, it doesn't matter. 2025 is a lost year. I care about the future, and not yet another in a string of 100 loss seasons, and have the goal of amassing as much longer term talent as possible. If he fails, he fails, but he still has a better chance of being around when the Sox are decent again than Slater does. I will never understand wasting 2025 ABs on short term anything. Expand If this is truly the case, then I look forward to never having to hear about how a 41-121 record is the reason for any argumentative stance. Here's Paul Janish in a SoxMachine interview published this morning: "Fixing swing-and-miss or fixing a chase rate, those things are hard and they don’t typically happen overnight." You're committing an OF spot to helping a player fix his swing-and-miss problems in the majors. Maybe they can get Zach Collins back and work on his swing some more, since 100 loss seasons don't matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:10 PM, WestEddy said: If this is truly the case, then I look forward to never having to hear about how a 41-121 record is the reason for any argumentative stance. Here's Paul Janish in a SoxMachine interview published this morning: "Fixing swing-and-miss or fixing a chase rate, those things are hard and they don’t typically happen overnight." You're committing an OF spot to helping a player fix his swing-and-miss problems in the majors. Maybe they can get Zach Collins back and work on his swing some more, since 100 loss seasons don't matter. Expand You love to say this, but again, it is the 121 loss season that actually SHOULD be dictating roster building for the future, and instead we still keep adding marginal players with no future to this organization, so I have to keep saying it. But again, you SHOULD understand that by now, but choose to say otherwise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 8:22 AM, caulfield12 said: White Sox could take on Marte contract and a prospect but JR is still in charge as far as we know... Expand Why would the White Sox do that? They have pretty much the same statistical profile in Tauchman for about 1/20th of the cost. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:03 PM, southsider2k5 said: Cool, which is quite literally my point. Even if Slater is marginally better than this other kid in 2025, it doesn't matter. 2025 is a lost year. I care about the future, and not yet another in a string of 100 loss seasons, and have the goal of amassing as much longer term talent as possible. If he fails, he fails, but he still has a better chance of being around when the Sox are decent again than Slater does. I will never understand wasting 2025 ABs on short term anything. Expand That's fine. You don't need to understand it it. Different people have different views on what to do with the wasted year. In the end it's all about biding time until the prospects are ready. Or until they are ready to sign actual good players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted March 4 Author Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:13 PM, ptatc said: That's fine. You don't need to understand it it. Different people have different views on what to do with the wasted year. In the end it's all about biding time until the prospects are ready. Or until they are ready to sign actual good players. Expand Ah yes, we have done nothing and we are all out of ideas. Wonderful. We could be in talent accumulation mode, but why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WestEddy Posted March 4 Share Posted March 4 On 3/4/2025 at 4:12 PM, southsider2k5 said: You love to say this, but again, it is the 121 loss season that actually SHOULD be dictating roster building for the future, and instead we still keep adding marginal players with no future to this organization, so I have to keep saying it. But again, you SHOULD understand that by now. Expand And they do keep adding players with a future with the organization. If they're going to take on serious rehab projects like Canario, they might as well just work with the guys they've already laid a foundation with in DeLoach, Fletcher and Colas. You're the guy who hates panic, right? DFAing Colas for a bigger project would be that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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