Passan address current challenges with TB/A's stadium situations, cites Sox and Royals predicaments

[WBWSF]

  On 3/9/2025 at 9:59 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

Correct, the ballpark is in fine shape, easy to get to, plenty of parking and excellent public transportation. The problem is that the perception by many is that it’s in a bad neighborhood, real Sox fans know that’s not true. I never had  trouble going to over 200 games from 1955 until we moved to Florida in 1993 but history shows that the Sox were never a huge draw at 35th and Shields, one of the few MLB teams that has failed to draw 3 million in a season, came close twice but no cigar, pretty sad for a Major market team.

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1) The Cubs  draw at least 20% of their attendance from out of state fans. The White Sox have only said  that out of state fans are LESS than 10% of their attendance. The perception that the area around the White Sox stadium has always hurt them attendance wise. 2) Everybody seems to  assume that the new owner will want a new stadium at the 78. Maybe not, perhaps he will  want to build anew stadium in some suburban area. I don't know where but I think its a possibility.

[tray]

  On 3/9/2025 at 7:38 PM, nrockway said:

The perception of the area is...weird. People either think it's still the projects or it's a bunch of South Side whites, the term "Bridegeport Bob" still sees some play. But Bob was priced out a decade ago. The reality is that everyone who lives there now is Chinese. The alderman is Chinese. On the other side of Dan Ryan, black people are doing their own gentrification project too, trying to conjure up some idea of a historic Bronzeville, except with $600,000 condos so they don't have to live around poor people. The area has changed radically in my lifetime but the perception hasn't. 

If they wanted to do some retail district, 35th and Shields is a better site for it these days than it has been in like 80 years. Which is why I don't understand or think it's true that they'll move or sell. The Sox already own a lot of desirable land to build on, the "anchor tenant" idea at that Related Idiots project just seems lazy and uninspired and a poor way for a billionaire to make a lot more money.

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Thank you Jezus.

[nrockway]

  On 3/9/2025 at 4:59 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I think the state might be willing to contribute towards a stadium for the Sox, but ownership needs to contribute significantly more than what Jerry originally signaled.  Hopefully Ishbia eventually helps on that front.  I am generally against public funding for stadiums, but I do think a major investment in the 78 would warrant some public money.

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My mind has changed on public investments in this arena. Pun intended. In principle, I don’t think liberal society should be giving handouts to business in place of handouts to regular people.  However, the environment has changed where municipalities can actually derive sustainable revenue from “ballpark districts” when done right. Minneapolis and St Louis are good midwestern examples. You might prefer the state take a cut and have some decision-making over the process. You might demand of the owner who wants a new park to build some public assets, I imagine a new sox park could have a free or subsidized sports complex and create some opportunities for kids. Again, in principle, this seems wrong to me. The democratically elected government should do stuff for people, they shouldn’t be coercing Jerry Reinsdorf to do stuff for people. He’s just some guy and we didn’t vote for him. Unfortunately, this is the environment especially in Illinois. 

[caulfield12]

  On 3/10/2025 at 12:14 AM, nrockway said:

My mind has changed on public investments in this arena. Pun intended. In principle, I don’t think liberal society should be giving handouts to business in place of handouts to regular people.  However, the environment has changed where municipalities can actually derive sustainable revenue from “ballpark districts” when done right. Minneapolis and St Louis are good midwestern examples. You might prefer the state take a cut and have some decision-making over the process. You might demand of the owner who wants a new park to build some public assets, I imagine a new sox park could have a free or subsidized sports complex and create some opportunities for kids. Again, in principle, this seems wrong to me. The democratically elected government should do stuff for people, they shouldn’t be coercing Jerry Reinsdorf to do stuff for people. He’s just some guy and we didn’t vote for him. Unfortunately, this is the environment especially in Illinois. 

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We also didn't vote for Mr. TeslaX but here we are... 

[WestEddy]

This appears to be news. Commish and other owners pressuring Rays to sell. 

MLB commissioner, several owners pressuring Stu Sternberg to sell Rays as buyers eye team - The Athletic

[caulfield12]

  On 3/10/2025 at 1:25 AM, WestEddy said:

This appears to be news. Commish and other owners pressuring Rays to sell. 

MLB commissioner, several owners pressuring Stu Sternberg to sell Rays as buyers eye team - The Athletic

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https://www.tampabay.com/sports/rays/2025/03/09/tampa-businessman-interested-buying-rays-keeping-them-st-pete/

Molloy is George Steinbrenner's former son-in-law and 64 years old...and seemingly NOT a billionaire, lol.   Of course, former Red Barry Larkin is leading a group attempting to get a new team in Orlando or theoretically moving the Rays there as yet another possibility.

 

Under Molloy's leadership, the Yankees invested money into player development and scouting. He green-lit the selection of Derek Jeter in the 1992 MLB Draft. Steinbrenner was reinstated on March 1, 1993, and Molloy remained a general partner. Molloy planned the development of Legends Field as a new spring training complex for the Yankees.^[1] He was also involved in hiring Bob Watson as the team's new general manager.^[5]

In 1997, Molloy requested a one-year leave of absence from the Yankees due to the stress of the job and George's managing style. Molloy and Jessica separated in January 1998. He officially resigned from the Yankees in February, and filed for divorce in March. After leaving the Yankees, he returned to teaching.^[1]

In 2017, Molloy joined a group that attempted to purchase the Miami Marlins of MLB.^[6]

Joe and Jessica's son, Robert, is a film producer. He runs the production company Pinstripe Productions.^[7]

Edited Monday at 01:36 AM by caulfield12

[WestEddy]

  On 3/10/2025 at 1:25 AM, WestEddy said:

This appears to be news. Commish and other owners pressuring Rays to sell. 

MLB commissioner, several owners pressuring Stu Sternberg to sell Rays as buyers eye team - The Athletic

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Key paragraph. I wonder if the gist of this applies to Reinsdorf, also. 

  Quote

“If Stu walks away from this deal, I think the owners and Major League Baseball will see that he either has an unwillingness to do a new stadium in Tampa Bay, or he has a financial issue that prevents him from doing a new stadium in Tampa Bay and there needs to be an ownership change,” Latvala said. “I do believe that we’ll have new ownership with the Rays at some point in the near future.”

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[caulfield12]

  On 3/10/2025 at 1:44 AM, WestEddy said:

Key paragraph. I wonder if the gist of this applies to Reinsdorf, also. 

 

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On Thursday, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported that while no deal was close, a group of businesspeople local to the Tampa Bay area have started to put together ownership groups with their sights set on purchasing the team. Drellich’s report expands on that report, confirming that no sale is close but that “several groups” with ties to Florida have expressed interest in purchasing the club. Drellich reports that those involved include the family of San Francisco 49ners owner Edward DeBartolo Jr., former Yankees minority owner Joe Molloy, and Tampa-area businessman Dan Doyle Jr.

 

Seems pretty likely they would either be staying in Tampa or moving no further than Orlando...

[tray]

  On 3/9/2025 at 9:59 AM, The Mighty Mite said:

Correct, the ballpark is in fine shape, easy to get to, plenty of parking and excellent public transportation. The problem is that the perception by many is that it’s in a bad neighborhood, real Sox fans know that’s not true. I never had  trouble going to over 200 games from 1955 until we moved to Florida in 1993 but history shows that the Sox were never a huge draw at 35th and Shields, one of the few MLB teams that has failed to draw 3 million in a season, came close twice but no cigar, pretty sad for a Major market team.

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The perception you refer to was justified and was rooted in the sight of the Robert Taylor Homes from the expressway. That hi-rise project (and Cabrini Green) have since been demolished and at least to some extent been  replaced with affordable low rise housing around the city. Bridgeport though is not and never has been a bad neighborhood. 

[77 Hitmen]

  On 3/9/2025 at 8:53 PM, WBWSF said:

1) The Cubs  draw at least 20% of their attendance from out of state fans. The White Sox have only said  that out of state fans are LESS than 10% of their attendance. The perception that the area around the White Sox stadium has always hurt them attendance wise. 2) Everybody seems to  assume that the new owner will want a new stadium at the 78. Maybe not, perhaps he will  want to build anew stadium in some suburban area. I don't know where but I think its a possibility.

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I have mixed feelings about the idea of the Sox moving to the 78 - even if it's with the Ishbias' private money.  The idea of a new park a short walk from the Loop and along an expanded riverwalk sounds exciting, but I have built a lot of memories at the current park over nearly 30 years (I haven't been to a game since 2018).  I brought my kids there lots of times when they were growing up.  I was at the AJ dropped 3rd strike game and other memorable games.  Good times.   And they did a good job improving the park in the early 2000s.

But Rate Field is what it is - a nice, underrated, but unremarkable stadium in a part of town without much else to do.  It's a short L ride from downtown, but most people don't bother unless they're really into White Sox baseball.  Maybe that could change if they can develop the parking lots around the ballpark.  I have my doubts about that, but we'll see what a new owner (whether or not it's the Ishbia brothers) decides for the future of this team.  

I doubt any new owner in their right minds will want to move the team to some suburban location.  That would work for the Bears, but not for a MLB team with 81 home games a year.  It's going to be the current stadium, a new stadium at the 78, or maybe even a new stadium at the site of Old Comiskey (a very longshot possibility).  That's probably about it as viable options IMO.

Edited Monday at 03:51 AM by 77 Hitmen

[caulfield12]

  On 3/10/2025 at 3:48 AM, 77 Hitmen said:

I have mixed feelings about the idea of the Sox moving to the 78 - even if it's with the Ishbias' private money.  The idea of a new park a short walk from the Loop and along an expanded riverwalk sounds exciting, but I have built a lot of memories at the current park over nearly 30 years (I haven't been to a game since 2018).  I brought my kids there lots of times when they were growing up.  I was at the AJ dropped 3rd strike game and other memorable games.  Good times.   And they did a good job improving the park in the early 2000s.

But Rate Field is what it is - a nice, underrated, but unremarkable stadium in a part of town without much else to do.  It's a short L ride from downtown, but most people don't bother unless they're really into White Sox baseball.  Maybe that could change if they can develop the parking lots around the ballpark.  I have my doubts about that, but we'll see what a new owner (whether or not it's the Ishbia brothers) decides for the future of this team.  

I doubt any new owner in their right minds will want to move the team to some suburban location.  That would work for the Bears, but not for a MLB team with 81 home games a year.  It's going to be the current stadium, a new stadium at the 78, or maybe even a new stadium at the site of Old Comiskey (a very longshot possibility).  That's probably about it as viable options IMO.

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A suburban stadium has worked for the Braves...but that's probably unique to Atlanta's downtown/reputation, to an extent.

Kauffman/Arrowhead and Arlington, TX are more connected to interstate highways/transportation hubs than any other particular reason for their siting.

Kauffman's basically the model for GRate, minus the CF/fountains.  The upper deck slants/rake are almost exactly the same.  Treacherous.  85% sit in the lower bowl, except on nights when there is significant attendance.   You don't have anything besides parking lots in KC (used to be a Taco Bell and a hotel where visiting teams stayed at one point before most relocated to the Country Club Plaza), but then again it's also perceived to be a much safer area for tailgating and just hanging out in the lots before games in general.

[77 Hitmen]

  On 3/10/2025 at 1:47 AM, caulfield12 said:

On Thursday, ESPN’s Jeff Passan reported that while no deal was close, a group of businesspeople local to the Tampa Bay area have started to put together ownership groups with their sights set on purchasing the team. Drellich’s report expands on that report, confirming that no sale is close but that “several groups” with ties to Florida have expressed interest in purchasing the club. Drellich reports that those involved include the family of San Francisco 49ners owner Edward DeBartolo Jr., former Yankees minority owner Joe Molloy, and Tampa-area businessman Dan Doyle Jr.

 

Seems pretty likely they would either be staying in Tampa or moving no further than Orlando...

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.....nearly 45 years after MLB blocked the sale of the White Sox to Edward DeBartolo Sr., Manfred might pressure a sale of the Rays to (perhaps) Edward Jr?

 

[ptatc]

  On 3/10/2025 at 8:16 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

.....nearly 45 years after MLB blocked the sale of the White Sox to Edward DeBartolo Sr., Manfred might pressure a sale of the Rays to (perhaps) Edward Jr?

 

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They don't care about gambling connections any longer. It was a big concern back then.

[77 Hitmen]

  On 3/10/2025 at 8:20 PM, ptatc said:

They don't care about gambling connections any longer. It was a big concern back then.

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I have wondered how a parallel universe in which Veeck got approval to sell to DeBartolo would have turned out for us Sox fans.  I seem to remember that the other owners claimed that DeBartolo would move the Sox out of town.....which Jerry and Eddie nearly did to St. Pete a few years later.   

[ptatc]

  On 3/10/2025 at 8:39 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

I have wondered how a parallel universe in which Veeck got approval to sell to DeBartolo would have turned out for us Sox fans.  I seem to remember that the other owners claimed that DeBartolo would move the Sox out of town.....which Jerry and Eddie nearly did to St. Pete a few years later.   

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Yeah, he was a pretty good guy. He owned a horse track I worked at during college. He would show up occasionally. Weird part was he co-owned it with Steinbrenner. 

[Dick Allen]

  On 3/10/2025 at 8:42 PM, ptatc said:

Yeah, he was a pretty good guy. He owned a horse track I worked at during college. He would show up occasionally. Weird part was he co-owned it with Steinbrenner. 

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And if JR didn’t get the White Sox, he wouldn’t have gotten the Bulls. He got them through Steinbrenner who was a co owner.

[caulfield12]

https://wirepoints.org/gov-jb-pritzkers-300m-proposal-seeks-to-attract-developers-to-abandoned-sites-that-now-draw-only-vandals-chicago-tribune-yahoo/&ved=2ahUKEwi806Wj24CMAxUNke4BHSbzJcEQvOMEKAB6BAgPEAE&usg=AOvVaw0FHmYIKjBFeYp3lD7pM2oB

A possible opening here...

[ptatc]

  On 3/10/2025 at 10:30 PM, Dick Allen said:

And if JR didn’t get the White Sox, he wouldn’t have gotten the Bulls. He got them through Steinbrenner who was a co owner.

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Steinbrenner was a co-owner of the Bulls? Didn't know that one.

[ptatc]

  On 3/10/2025 at 11:53 PM, caulfield12 said:

https://wirepoints.org/gov-jb-pritzkers-300m-proposal-seeks-to-attract-developers-to-abandoned-sites-that-now-draw-only-vandals-chicago-tribune-yahoo/&ved=2ahUKEwi806Wj24CMAxUNke4BHSbzJcEQvOMEKAB6BAgPEAE&usg=AOvVaw0FHmYIKjBFeYp3lD7pM2oB

A possible opening here...

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The Dwight or kankakee sites would be awesome for me. Somehow I don't think they want to move out here.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/10/2025 at 11:55 PM, ptatc said:

Steinbrenner was a co-owner of the Bulls? Didn't know that one.

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And his ex son-in-law Joe Molloy might end up being the front man down in TB if Stu Sternberg is pressured to sell...and let someone else take over the stadium deal or move the team to ORL, merging with the Barry Larkin-led consortium.

[Lip Man 1]

  On 3/10/2025 at 11:55 PM, ptatc said:

Steinbrenner was a co-owner of the Bulls? Didn't know that one.

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He had a very small percentage. Said selling out his share to JR was one of the biggest mistakes he ever made. 

[Lip Man 1]

  On 3/10/2025 at 8:39 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

I have wondered how a parallel universe in which Veeck got approval to sell to DeBartolo would have turned out for us Sox fans.  I seem to remember that the other owners claimed that DeBartolo would move the Sox out of town.....which Jerry and Eddie nearly did to St. Pete a few years later.   

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DeBartolo said he would move to Chicago and spend 20% of his time and business interests there.

He was turned down for bogus reasons, the fact that he owned race tracks (i.e. so did Steinbrenner but that didn't seem to be an issue) and because he "supposedly" had connections with some Italian "families" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more!)

A big reason he was turned down was because he was going to spend big money on the franchise and the other owners were horrified at that prospect. He had already given Veeck money to sign LeFlore and Essian. 

[chitownsportsfan]

  On 3/12/2025 at 2:41 AM, Lip Man 1 said:

DeBartolo said he would move to Chicago and spend 20% of his time and business interests there.

He was turned down for bogus reasons, the fact that he owned race tracks (i.e. so did Steinbrenner but that didn't seem to be an issue) and because he "supposedly" had connections with some Italian "families" (nudge, nudge, wink, wink SAY no more!)

A big reason he was turned down was because he was going to spend big money on the franchise and the other owners were horrified at that prospect. He had already given Veeck money to sign LeFlore and Essian. 

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Would have made all the difference. In a time when not many owners realized winning meant innovating and finding the best people the DeBartolo family did, regardless of anything else.

Edited Wednesday at 03:20 AM by chitownsportsfan

[77 Hitmen]

The Rays have withdrawn from the $1.3B stadium deal:

https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/mlb/tampa-bay-rays-withdraw-planned-ballpark-rcna196280

[Bob Sacamano]

  On 3/13/2025 at 6:20 PM, 77 Hitmen said:

The Rays have withdrawn from the $1.3B stadium deal:

https://www.nbcnews.com/sports/mlb/tampa-bay-rays-withdraw-planned-ballpark-rcna196280

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Move that team to Orlando.