DVS retiring...

[46DidIt]

  On 3/14/2025 at 4:26 PM, ChiSoxFanMike said:

It’s just tough to find work right now but I suppose that’s the case for a lot of fields.

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Journalism doesn't require a specific degree. 

[caulfield12]

Back in the day...everyone wanted to go to Syracuse for that major.

[PaleAleSox]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:01 AM, caulfield12 said:

Back in the day...everyone wanted to go to Syracuse for that major.

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That is still mostly the case. 

[ChiSox59]

lol, between Vinny and DVS, Sox have lost the two most readily available Sox content beats. Bad news 

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:44 AM, ChiSox59 said:

lol, between Vinny and DVS, Sox have lost the two most readily available Sox content beats. Bad news 

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I really am curious what these guys are getting paid before they ultimately get cut loose.  It honestly can’t even be that much.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:51 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

I really am curious what these guys are getting paid before they ultimately get cut loose.  It honestly can’t even be that much.

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$49-61,000 is average according to a search...but the demand for these jobs is so high (like internships) that for MLB jobs you could probably cut that by 20-25% and still find a plethora of applicants.

With Fegan...he might have an escape clause with his SoxMachine deal if he gets offered another beat writer spot.

Edited March 15 by caulfield12

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/15/2025 at 1:07 AM, caulfield12 said:

$49-61,000 is average according to a search...but the demand for these jobs is so high (like internships) that for MLB jobs you could probably cut that by 20-25% and still find a plethora of applicants.

With Fegan...he might have an escape clause with his SoxMachine deal if he gets offered another beat writer spot.

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No idea how these guys live on that after taxes, or why the F they would want to.

Edited March 15 by WhiteSox2023

[nrockway]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:05 AM, PaleAleSox said:

That is still mostly the case. 

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They won’t hire you unless you went to Colombia journalism school and only if you know how to write listicles and if you’re active on twitter.

once upon a time this was a profession you didn’t need a college degree for. you still don’t, you just won’t be hired. consequently the journalists these days with their graduate degrees strike me as more illiterate and unable to write now than ever before. Just bad at writing. Probably good at studying, there’s sometimes an overlap.

sports journalists specifically used to be very good, many of them still are and at least one of them posts on this forum, but every year it’s a new layoff. Mookie Betts and AJ Pyrzynski are taking their jobs and making a fucking mess of it. The only guys who keep their jobs are shills for agents and teams because they get “scoops”, ie they are public relations agents for teams and are told what to say. Boob Nightengale is a good example of this. That guy can’t write for s%*#. He seems slow when he talks. But he does whatever JR asks him to do, that’s certainly a path to a sustainable career. It’s unfortunately the antithesis of journalism.

That’s evidently what the people want and will click on ads for though, apparently. I don’t actually believe that, it’s just the only thing available, and we’re dooming the kids.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 2:15 AM, nrockway said:

They won’t hire you unless you went to Colombia journalism school and only if you know how to write listicles and if you’re active on twitter.

once upon a time this was a profession you didn’t need a college degree for. you still don’t, you just won’t be hired. consequently the journalists these days with their graduate degrees strike me as more illiterate and unable to write now than ever before. Just bad at writing. Probably good at studying, there’s sometimes an overlap.

sports journalists specifically used to be very good, many of them still are and at least one of them posts on this forum, but every year it’s a new layoff. Mookie Betts and AJ Pyrzynski are taking their jobs and making a fucking mess of it. The only guys who keep their jobs are shills for agents and teams because they get “scoops”, ie they are public relations agents for teams and are told what to say. Boob Nightengale is a good example of this. That guy can’t write for s%*#. He seems slow when he talks. But he does whatever JR asks him to do, that’s certainly a path to a sustainable career. It’s unfortunately the antithesis of journalism.

That’s evidently what the people want and will click on ads for though, apparently. I don’t actually believe that, it’s just the only thing available, and we’re dooming the kids.

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It's the same for Sports Admin.

Used to be Ohio U Ohio State UMass and Georgia Southern.

Now you basically need Ivy Stanford Duke maybe Northwestern or Michigan if you want a front office track.

[nrockway]

  On 3/15/2025 at 3:04 AM, caulfield12 said:

It's the same for Sports Admin.

Used to be Ohio U Ohio State UMass and Georgia Southern.

Now you basically need Ivy Stanford Duke maybe Northwestern or Michigan if you want a front office track.

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My theory is that it’s exclusively for marketing purposes, look at all these eggheads working for us! But it seems like a nonfunctional strategy, it doesn’t produce better work, or larger profits, but it makes it easier to do sales when you have a “team of Ivy League grads”. Too bad those kids have very little to offer the world. Maybe the STEM grads, but who cares about them.

They can’t even read a whole book. There was some article I read recently where the Harvard grads are intimidated to be assigned a whole book to read. Couldn’t find the link, I think I read it in New Yorker. More specifically, the entire public high school curriculum for “English” classes has changed in the last decade or so. I think teachers have some leeway on the books they assign, but the list of “recommended” books for teachers has changed dramatically. Nothing earlier than 1980 seems to be the line. They wanted the literature to be “more racially sensitive”’ but they also deepsixed all of the native or black authors who wrote in the 20th century. Important part of American literature, i’d argue every student should be assigned Ralph Ellison or Sherman Alexie. Made an impact on me. No longer part of the curriculum, now it’s TikTok tier s%*#. 

[greg775]

  On 3/15/2025 at 4:30 AM, nrockway said:

More specifically, the entire public high school curriculum for “English” classes has changed in the last decade or so. I think teachers have some leeway on the books they assign, but the list of “recommended” books for teachers has changed dramatically. Nothing earlier than 1980 seems to be the line.

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At Brother Rice, Mr. Perry the English teacher (he also sold me track spikes at his second job at some southside sporting goods store) assigned us 20 books to read and do reports during a class that lasted a semester. 20 books and real ones like Mockingbird, Animal Farm etc. There were like 40 on the list and we had to read/review 20 of 'em. I don't know how I made it through high school and college. So much work. So much memorizing of b.s. Our brains are capable of so much storing of b.s.

Edited March 15 by greg775

[caulfield12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 4:30 AM, nrockway said:

My theory is that it’s exclusively for marketing purposes, look at all these eggheads working for us! But it seems like a nonfunctional strategy, it doesn’t produce better work, or larger profits, but it makes it easier to do sales when you have a “team of Ivy League grads”. Too bad those kids have very little to offer the world. Maybe the STEM grads, but who cares about them.

They can’t even read a whole book. There was some article I read recently where the Harvard grads are intimidated to be assigned a whole book to read. Couldn’t find the link, I think I read it in New Yorker. More specifically, the entire public high school curriculum for “English” classes has changed in the last decade or so. I think teachers have some leeway on the books they assign, but the list of “recommended” books for teachers has changed dramatically. Nothing earlier than 1980 seems to be the line. They wanted the literature to be “more racially sensitive”’ but they also deepsixed all of the native or black authors who wrote in the 20th century. Important part of American literature, i’d argue every student should be assigned Ralph Ellison or Sherman Alexie. Made an impact on me. No longer part of the curriculum, now it’s TikTok tier s%*#. 

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With ChatGPT and DeepSeek, the kids here in China are hardly learning how to write their own homework or university admissions essays.  They are great at memorizing past papers and STEM subjects, but weak in critical thinking...the advanced math homework my son does in 4th grade is pretty much the equivalent of the 6-8th grade curriculum in the US.

I personally grew up with Invisible Man, Baldwin, Autobiography of Malcolm X, Toni Morrison...those books were highly influential to a white growing in lily white Iowa.

There did used to be a more or less agreed upon canon of literature when I studied as an English major in the early 90s.  It was pretty much every book that you could find those yellow Cliff's notes study books for, with the majority being American Lit over the last 150-200 years and all the Greek and English playwrights.  We also had the Norton Anthology of Literature as a textbook.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 6:41 AM, greg775 said:

At Brother Rice, Mr. Perry the English teacher (he also sold me track spikes at his second job at some southside sporting goods store) assigned us 20 books to read and do reports during a class that lasted a semester. 20 books and real ones like Mockingbird, Animal Farm etc. I don't know how I made it through high school and college. So much work. So much memorizing of b.s. Our brains are capable of so much storing of b.s.

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Was history class any different?

The most important thing you need to know is how to read and write, think critically and communicate effectively.

Growing up without an iPad or cell phone, I'm sure my son would have been an avid reader like I was, but this generation is so visually oriented around the dopamine hits of Minecraft or Tik Tok.  The attention span and ability to focus on books like Gone with the Wind or Tolstoy epic just isn't there anymore.

It feels like the Harry Potter books were the last time kids around the world were all really excited about reading...compared to movies, tv shows, music and esports.

Being a (successfully) published author might as well be on that same list as CWS beat writer on the list of careers that are being displaced by AI.

Edited March 15 by caulfield12

[greg775]

  On 3/15/2025 at 6:49 AM, caulfield12 said:

Was history class any different?

The most important thing you need to know is how to read and write, think critically and communicate effectively.

Growing up without an iPad or cell phone, I'm sure my son would have been an avid reader like I was, but this generation is so visually oriented around the dopamine hits of Minecraft or Tik Tok.  The attention span and ability to focus on books like Gone with the Wind or Tolstoy epic just isn't there anymore.

It feels like the Harry Potter books were the last time kids around the world were all really excited about reading...compared to movies, tv shows, music and esports.

Being a (successfully) published author might as well be on that same list as CWS beat writer on the list of careers that are being displaced by AI.

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I think every owner of every business is trying to figure out if AI can save them millions of dollars. That probably includes coverage of sports in publications. Fans aren't stupid though. Nobody is going to pay for that s--t. You can get mlb.com for 120 a year or whatever and get your box scores and any info you need. And frankly you'll know exactly what's going on with the Sox just reading this message board.

As a customer, tomorrow I have to purchase for 13 bucks the IHSA coverage of the 3A and 4A illinois high school state title games. So that's a way to get a person's 13 bucks. I would not pay that to get articles about the games.

[nrockway]

  On 3/15/2025 at 6:41 AM, greg775 said:

At Brother Rice, Mr. Perry the English teacher (he also sold me track spikes at his second job at some southside sporting goods store) assigned us 20 books to read and do reports during a class that lasted a semester. 20 books and real ones like Mockingbird, Animal Farm etc. There were like 40 on the list and we had to read/review 20 of 'em. I don't know how I made it through high school and college. So much work. So much memorizing of b.s. Our brains are capable of so much storing of b.s.

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I actually wonder if it's better at the Catholic schools these days compared to public school. I feel like I got a very good public, non-magnet, education in Illinois. I think the Catholic standards might be higher these days. Certainly the public standards are reduced. When I was at public school, the teacher would make fun of you if you didn't have anything to say about...Huck Finn or whatever. Bully you a little bit if you didn't do your homework. Whether or not you wanted to read the book, you felt compelled to so you wouldn't feel like a loser at school when it was your turn to read. Gotta bully the youth a little bit, "b**** you ain't no nerd? -- coulda sworn you was" is a quote I like to think of.

I don't think that's the case anymore. Certainly you can't bully your students anymore, you'll get fired, but you also can't expect them to read a book.  Their parents are tiktok-brained themslelves. shams charania brained. 

I forget where I was going with this....go sox

[nrockway]

  On 3/15/2025 at 6:41 AM, caulfield12 said:

With ChatGPT and DeepSeek, the kids here in China are hardly learning how to write their own homework or university admissions essays.  They are great at memorizing past papers and STEM subjects, but weak in critical thinking...the advanced math homework my son does in 4th grade is pretty much the equivalent of the 6-8th grade curriculum in the US.

I personally grew up with Invisible Man, Baldwin, Autobiography of Malcolm X, Toni Morrison...those books were highly influential to a white growing in lily white Iowa.

There did used to be a more or less agreed upon canon of literature when I studied as an English major in the early 90s.  It was pretty much every book that you could find those yellow Cliff's notes study books for, with the majority being American Lit over the last 150-200 years and all the Greek and English playwrights.  We also had the Norton Anthology of Literature as a textbook.

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I already replied in part to this post, but I find the extra information interesting. I do "tutoring" with exclusively Chinese students. It just worked out that way, I'm not trying to appeal to them specifically. But I'm saddened that the books we may have been assigned to read are no longer part of the curriculum...including Toni Morrison.  I'm like "you're cancelling her too?" My impression is the Chinese-American students want to read these books and they're both excited and challenged by it. I suppose you work in China, I have an opportunity to go to Taiwan -- and there's some interesting baseball stuff going on there that could be worth writing about.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/15/2025 at 8:34 AM, nrockway said:

I already replied in part to this post, but I find the extra information interesting. I do "tutoring" with exclusively Chinese students. It just worked out that way, I'm not trying to appeal to them specifically. But I'm saddened that the books we may have been assigned to read are no longer part of the curriculum...including Toni Morrison.  I'm like "you're cancelling her too?" My impression is the Chinese-American students want to read these books and they're both excited and challenged by it. I suppose you work in China, I have an opportunity to go to Taiwan -- and there's some interesting baseball stuff going on there that could be worth writing about.

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I've lived in Wuhan for 12 years now, straight through Covid starting in January, 2020...we taught online all the way through July 10th that year.  And then online again in 2022.  I actually believe that was the real tipping point for this generation of kids in Asia becoming hyper addicted to gaming and social media.

Taiwan is obviously a different world from the mainland...working for an accredited school is always going to be better than ESL or a training center.

Worked four years in Kansas City MO public schools as well as Colombia, South Korea, three cities in China, the Philippines and Indonesia.

I think we've already passed the peak of Chinese demand for foreign teachers...just like Japan was the hottest place to go until the early 90s.

[bmags]

Sad to lose DVS…but I wonder how much we as fans even get from beat writers. Hearing responses to day to day decisions is so monotonous now anyway. All the bigger stories go to natl writers…thinking of any times a beat writer gave us real info on how team operates.

Not a big diff between Merkin and dvs in all honesty.

[ChiSox59]

  On 3/15/2025 at 12:10 PM, bmags said:

Sad to lose DVS…but I wonder how much we as fans even get from beat writers. Hearing responses to day to day decisions is so monotonous now anyway. All the bigger stories go to natl writers…thinking of any times a beat writer gave us real info on how team operates.

Not a big diff between Merkin and dvs in all honesty.

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I was always a fan of DVS because he would always share post game comment videos directly to his Twitter. As an out of town fan, there isn't really any way to get post game comments otherwise. And Merk is brutal - his stuff is all fluff, no analysis. The definition of a company man. He talks more about Michigan on Twitter than the Sox. Not a fan at all. 

[Quin]

  On 3/14/2025 at 3:51 PM, ChiSoxFanMike said:

In hindsight I should have gone to school for journalism instead of business as I enjoy it more. But I didn’t know that at the time.

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Man, my newsroom just went through it's third round of layoffs (fortunately, my department was spared) in a little over a year. That's with a union fighting every step of the way

Back when I got laid off (the first time) in 2018, it was jokingly seen as a right of passage in the industry. Happened again in 2020 (extreme circumstances, to be fair).

You made the right decision.

[ChiSoxFanMike]

  On 3/15/2025 at 2:48 PM, Quin said:

Man, my newsroom just went through it's third round of layoffs (fortunately, my department was spared) in a little over a year. That's with a union fighting every step of the way

Back when I got laid off (the first time) in 2018, it was jokingly seen as a right of passage in the industry. Happened again in 2020 (extreme circumstances, to be fair).

You made the right decision.

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I went with a business degree at the time because I was undecided and thought that could give me more options down the line. Problem is I still don’t really have a direction. I just have to find something.

[bmags]

  On 3/15/2025 at 1:50 PM, ChiSox59 said:

I was always a fan of DVS because he would always share post game comment videos directly to his Twitter. As an out of town fan, there isn't really any way to get post game comments otherwise. And Merk is brutal - his stuff is all fluff, no analysis. The definition of a company man. He talks more about Michigan on Twitter than the Sox. Not a fan at all. 

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I guess it’s just the analysis stuff is for me filled by a lot of people outside of the beat role, and better. So the beat job just felt like getting faster notice of day of injuries and post game comments, and as a fan I just don’t need that as much anymore.

[ChiSox59]

  On 3/15/2025 at 5:55 PM, bmags said:

I guess it’s just the analysis stuff is for me filled by a lot of people outside of the beat role, and better. So the beat job just felt like getting faster notice of day of injuries and post game comments, and as a fan I just don’t need that as much anymore.

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I suppose. I personally really like listening to the commentary directly from the players and staff. That's going to be harder to get this season without DVS and Vinny unless someone good is added or someone significant changes their ways. Fegan is certainly capable, and I suppose this just requires an another subscription from me. I just enjoy the instant Twitter content. 

[Lip Man 1]

https://awfulannouncing.com/newspapers/massive-chicago-sun-times-buyouts-rick-telander-annie-costabile.html