Sox Claim P Mike Vasil

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:16 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Your original post was that being historically bad one time should be career suicide, so yeah, citing the bad luck matters in that regard.  I never once said that winning 49 to 51 games would be good or acceptable.  We all knew the team was going to be bad last year and they somehow surpassed our wildest expectations.  Getz definitely isn’t free from blame, but context does matter if you want have an objective debate on his performance in year 1.

Regardless, we didn’t hire Getz to make us a mediocre team last year…he was brought in to structurally reform the entire organization from the bottom up.  This idea that we should fire a GM who came into an impossible situation after one season because of the Win-Loss record is crazy to me.  Unless you feel like he’s failing behind the scenes, then he should continue forward as GM.  That being said, another historically bad season would be hard to ignore.  At some point, the foundational improvements should start providing a higher floor in terms of the on-field product.  If not, then some of the things viewed as being bad luck suddenly become the debate of bad process.

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Its a hard topic to discuss, because there is no other team in baseball that would have hired this man to be GM. So yeah, I think an unqualified GM turning a 100 loss team into a 120 loss team absolutely should have been career suicide. I think any respectable owner should have realized that was a huge mistake and fixed it. 

[GreenSox]

Signing Vasil is certainly a bet on the come....he had a poor spring, statistically, and his minor league numbers have been up and down.   I can't imagine that they expect him to be productive out of the box; Sox will have more dependable candidates down in Charlotte.

The Sox must really like his "tools."

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:45 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

That doesn’t change the fact that those past shortcomings impacted the talent level he assumed as GM.  You can argue that he should have never been named GM, but once he was put in the position those issues 100% created a headwind for him or any other GM.  You don’t hold somebody’s past body of work against them when evaluating their effectiveness in a different role.

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This is absurd when their role directly affected the job they fell up into, especially for the crowd that likes to pretend that this was such a surprise and a shock, and nothing could have been done to stop it.

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:33 PM, T R U said:

Its a hard topic to discuss, because there is no other team in baseball that would have hired this man to be GM. So yeah, I think an unqualified GM turning a 100 loss team into a 120 loss team absolutely should have been career suicide. I think any respectable owner should have realized that was a huge mistake and fixed it. 

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Again, in 125 years of GMs being fired and cleaning up messes, this has quite literally never happened before.  In all of the disastrous individual seasons, over those 125 years, I find it hard to believe that the Sox were messed up so much worse than any other individual team, there was no better scenario than the all time loss record.  Just by it's statistical rarity, it screams significant outlier for good reason, especially for a season in which they weren't actually trying to be the worst team in baseball.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 1:33 PM, T R U said:

Its a hard topic to discuss, because there is no other team in baseball that would have hired this man to be GM. So yeah, I think an unqualified GM turning a 100 loss team into a 120 loss team absolutely should have been career suicide. I think any respectable owner should have realized that was a huge mistake and fixed it. 

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I fully agree that it’s hard to discuss, but the club was a ticking time bomb for whomever took over is my main point.  By no means am I saying someone else wouldn’t have done a better job than Getz (I think they would have), but it was going to be ugly no matter what and Jerry would be insane to hire Chris into this role despite a lacking track record only to fire him one year later because the on-field results were worse than expected (and partly due to injuries to guys he inherited and general bad luck).

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:38 PM, southsider2k5 said:

This is absurd when their role directly affected the job they fell up into, especially for the crowd that likes to pretend that this was such a surprise and a shock, and nothing could have been done to stop it.

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There is absolutely, positively nothing absurd about it and if you feel otherwise then you have proven incapable of being rational on this matter.  Any GM who came in had to deal with an organization completely devoid of talent at the upper levels and it would have impacted their on-field results in 2024.  If you want to blame Getz for that issue, that’s an argument (and a good one) for why he shouldn’t have been named GM in the first place.  It’s not an argument that he performed poorly in his first year as GM. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/23/2025 at 6:06 PM, ptatc said:

I guess in a tank year may as well see if they have anything. Since it's a claim it's minimal cost to return him. Bannister and Katz must see something. It will be interesting to see what it may be.

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He already has a lot of pitches he can throw.They have to find the best mix of pitches he can throw most effectively for strikes.

I think I saw his last outing was 3 scoreless innings but he walked 3 so that's flirting with disaster. They'll probably try to improve command with different grips or different pitches like that kick changeup Davis Martin learned. On the job training and see if he can adapt quickly.

More on the kick change if you haven't seen it before https://blogs.fangraphs.com/davis-martin-and-matt-bowman-break-down-the-kick-change/

Edited Monday at 06:07 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[WestEddy]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:04 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

There is absolutely, positively nothing absurd about it and if you feel otherwise then you have proven incapable of being rational on this matter.  Any GM who came in had to deal with an organization completely devoid of talent at the upper levels and it would have impacted their on-field results in 2024.  If you want to blame Getz for that issue, that’s an argument (and a good one) for why he shouldn’t have been named GM in the first place.  It’s not an argument that he performed poorly in his first year as GM. 

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And if Getz sat JR down and laid out the issues in the organization, along with his vision along with a detailed map of how he was going to achieve each of his goals, why shouldn't JR have hired him?

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:04 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

There is absolutely, positively nothing absurd about it and if you feel otherwise then you have proven incapable of being rational on this matter.  Any GM who came in had to deal with an organization completely devoid of talent at the upper levels and it would have impacted their on-field results in 2024.  If you want to blame Getz for that issue, that’s an argument (and a good one) for why he shouldn’t have been named GM in the first place.  It’s not an argument that he performed poorly in his first year as GM. 

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So because he was bad at his previous roles as Director of Player Development and Assistant GM, he then got promoted to the GM role in which he started out with a weak farm system and MLB roster that he was a part of building and part of the reason it was so bad?

I can see why someone would think this is a ridiculous discussion.

[WestEddy]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:08 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

So because he was bad at his previous roles as Director of Player Development and Assistant GM, he then got promoted to the GM role in which he started out with a weak farm system and MLB roster that he was a part of building and part of the reason it was so bad?

I can see why someone would think this is a ridiculous discussion.

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Can you explain what parts of his job as Assistant GM Getz failed at?

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:41 PM, southsider2k5 said:

Again, in 125 years of GMs being fired and cleaning up messes, this has quite literally never happened before.  In all of the disastrous individual seasons, over those 125 years, I find it hard to believe that the Sox were messed up so much worse than any other individual team, there was no better scenario than the all time loss record.  Just by its statistical rarity, it screams significant outlier for good reason, especially for a season in which they weren't actually trying to be the worst team in baseball.

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I mean, I just outlined this team had 8 to 10 games of bad luck and also had their core five positional players underperform by 10 wins (with the depth in place unable to provide even replacement level production).  I know we all want one person or thing to blame for everything, but I can’t blame Getz entirely for that.  As I said, being historical bad requires a lack of talent and bad luck, and he inherited a ton of landmines when he took over that no GM could overcome.  That doesn’t mean Getz did a good job (he failed in a lot of ways), but losing 121 games is more a reflection of Jerry and the previous regime than Chris IMO.

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:12 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, I just outlined this team had 8 to 10 games of bad luck and also had their core five positional players underperform by 10 wins (with the depth in place unable to provide even replacement level production).  I know we all want one person or thing to blame for everything, but I can’t blame Getz entirely for that.  As I said, being historical bad requires a lack of talent and bad luck, and he inherited a ton of landmines when he took over that no GM could overcome.  That doesn’t mean Getz did a good job (he failed in a lot of ways), but losing 121 games is more a reflection of Jerry and the previous regime than Chris IMO.

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But Chris was part of the previous regime......

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:12 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, I just outlined this team had 8 to 10 games of bad luck and also had their core five positional players underperform by 10 wins (with the depth in place unable to provide even replacement level production).  I know we all want one person or thing to blame for everything, but I can’t blame Getz entirely for that.  As I said, being historical bad requires a lack of talent and bad luck, and he inherited a ton of landmines when he took over that no GM could overcome.  That doesn’t mean Getz did a good job (he failed in a lot of ways), but losing 121 games is more a reflection of Jerry and the previous regime than Chris IMO.

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Getz inherited landmines that he had planted in his previous roles as Director of Player Development and Assistant GM.  He then stepped on those landmines numerous times because he was too stupid to remember where he planted them.

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:04 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

There is absolutely, positively nothing absurd about it and if you feel otherwise then you have proven incapable of being rational on this matter.  Any GM who came in had to deal with an organization completely devoid of talent at the upper levels and it would have impacted their on-field results in 2024.  If you want to blame Getz for that issue, that’s an argument (and a good one) for why he shouldn’t have been named GM in the first place.  It’s not an argument that he performed poorly in his first year as GM. 

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So we are supposed to feel that a GM who absolutely failed by any of all measures of player development just all of the sudden doesn't have to be able to understand how it works effectively to be doing a good job at GM, when in his first year at GM, we didn't see any great success stories at this area for hitters, but we can't hold that against him, because of his contribution for leaving this cupboard bare.  That's circular as hell.

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:12 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

I mean, I just outlined this team had 8 to 10 games of bad luck and also had their core five positional players underperform by 10 wins (with the depth in place unable to provide even replacement level production).  I know we all want one person or thing to blame for everything, but I can’t blame Getz entirely for that.  As I said, being historical bad requires a lack of talent and bad luck, and he inherited a ton of landmines when he took over that no GM could overcome.  That doesn’t mean Getz did a good job (he failed in a lot of ways), but losing 121 games is more a reflection of Jerry and the previous regime than Chris IMO.

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It's not just one person to blame, but of all people to separate out and  blameless for what happened last year, Chris Getz is absolutely the very last person who deserves absolution.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:08 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

So because he was bad at his previous roles as Director of Player Development and Assistant GM, he then got promoted to the GM role in which he started out with a weak farm system and MLB roster that he was a part of building and part of the reason it was so bad?

I can see why someone would think this is a ridiculous discussion.

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Lol…I can’t even believe this an actual debate.  Every single GM candidate would have assumed the same lack of talent level in the organization.  It would have created a headwind that none of them could have overcomes if you evaluate performance strictly on a W-L basis.  Why there is a lack of talent to start with is completely irrelevant to how the performed as the GM of the Chicago White in 2024.  You clearly aren’t capable of separating Getz’s performance as Director of Player Development from his performance as GM.  They are 100% two completely different things and must be evaluated separately.

[Chisoxfn]

Good move

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…I can’t even believe this an actual debate.  Every single GM candidate would have assumed the same lack of talent level in the organization.  It would have created a headwind that none of them could have overcomes if you evaluate performance strictly on a W-L basis.  Why there is a lack of talent to start with is completely irrelevant to how the performed as the GM of the Chicago White in 2024.  You clearly aren’t capable of separating Getz’s performance as Director of Player Development from his performance as GM.  They are 100% two completely different things and must be evaluated separately.

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You know why this is a ridiculous conversation?  Because people that suck at their previous roles don’t normally get promoted to an even better and more important role.  Haha, the entire situation is a joke to begin with.

Edited Monday at 06:26 PM by WhiteSox2023

[Chisoxfn]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:06 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He already has a lot of pitches he can throw.They have to find the best mix of pitches he can throw most effectively for strikes.

I think I saw his last outing was 3 scoreless innings but he walked 3 so that's flirting with disaster. They'll probably try to improve command with different grips or different pitches like that kick changeup Davis Martin learned. On the job training and see if he can adapt quickly.

More on the kick change if you haven't seen it before https://blogs.fangraphs.com/davis-martin-and-matt-bowman-break-down-the-kick-change/

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Putting him in the pen to see if he can maximize 2-3 of them and benefit from the presumed higher LOE he can do out of that spot isn't a bad thing (if they see the talent there).  So I like this move.  

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…I can’t even believe this an actual debate.  Every single GM candidate would have assumed the same lack of talent level in the organization.  It would have created a headwind that none of them could have overcomes if you evaluate performance strictly on a W-L basis.  Why there is a lack of talent to start with is completely irrelevant to how the performed as the GM of the Chicago White in 2024.  You clearly aren’t capable of separating Getz’s performance as Director of Player Development from his performance as GM.  They are 100% two completely different things and must be evaluated separately.

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And very clearly based on the history of the 2024 White Sox never having happened in the history of MLB, people feel that other GMs would have stepped in and NOT see the entire organization self-destruct to the level that it did last year, even if we want to pretend that his complete failure at Player Dev shouldn't be counted against him, even though player dev didn't really see any big wins last year.

[ptatc]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:26 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

You know why this is a ridiculous conversation.  Because people that suck at their previous roles don’t normally get promoted to an even better and more important role.  Haha, the entire situation is a joke.

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This is common in the business world. Haven't you ever heard the phrases promote them to the level of their incompetence."

You promote them to get them out of the way.

I'm encouraged by what I see from Getz so far. We'll see how it turns out.

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…I can’t even believe this an actual debate.  Every single GM candidate would have assumed the same lack of talent level in the organization.  It would have created a headwind that none of them could have overcomes if you evaluate performance strictly on a W-L basis.  Why there is a lack of talent to start with is completely irrelevant to how the performed as the GM of the Chicago White in 2024.  You clearly aren’t capable of separating Getz’s performance as Director of Player Development from his performance as GM.  They are 100% two completely different things and must be evaluated separately.

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I don't see how you can even think that. A big part were in this mess is because he was bad at his job as the director of player development. If we had hired an outside candidate to be GM, absolutely, they had no ties to this mess and have a huge pile of work to do to get it right.

The guy they did hire, absolutely had a hand in creating this disaster by his inability to do his job successfully. How can you say that it should just be ignored now that he is the GM instead?

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:11 PM, WestEddy said:

Can you explain what parts of his job as Assistant GM Getz failed at?

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I believe Dick Allen already asked this question but it might be in another thread.  What success did Getz have other than Seby Zavala?

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:17 PM, T R U said:

But Chris was part of the previous regime......

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He was part of the previous regime, but he also wasn’t the top decision maker.  We as fans have no way to discern what his contributions were to the broader organization.  We can obviously look at his resume as the head of our player development staff, say “this track record sucks”, and not have hired him.  I 100% would have never given him this opportunity.  But once he was named GM, his performance is not tied to his past roles, but rather what he’s doing as the top decision maker starting in 2024.  If you guys can’t acknowledge that point, there isn’t really much to debate here.

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:30 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

He was part of the previous regime, but he also wasn’t the top decision maker.  We as fans have no way to discern what his contributions were to the broader organization.  We can obviously look at his resume as the head of our player development staff, say “this track record sucks”, and not have hired him.  I 100% would have never given him this opportunity.  But once he was named GM, his performance is not tied to his past roles, but rather what he’s doing as the top decision maker starting in 2024.  If you guys can’t acknowledge that point, there isn’t really much to debate here.

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That's fair, we don't know for sure what exactly his role was. What I do know is, he was part of the regime that caused this franchise to bottom out. Common sense dictates that you don't keep those people around when its time to start over. I know you already agree with that though.