Sox Claim P Mike Vasil

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:29 PM, T R U said:

I don't see how you can even think that. A big part were in this mess is because he was bad at his job as the director of player development. If we had hired an outside candidate to be GM, absolutely, they had no ties to this mess and have a huge pile of work to do to get it right.

The guy they did hire, absolutely had a hand in creating this disaster by his inability to do his job successfully. How can you say that it should just be ignored now that he is the GM instead?

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And more importantly, if he was absolutely inept in his job at running player dev, what in his role as his GM is he going to be able to do better to know that someone else is able to do it right, or at least significantly better than Getz did when he had the job?  It is a fair question to ask with his failure at this job, if he could even understand it well enough to be able to ask the right questions, and demand the right things of the next person to do that job, and maybe that is why we saw so many key hitters regress last year, and we are also seeing so many massive injury problems.

I think if you make the question, how many other GMs would have come in to this job at the same time, with the same limitations and freedoms that Chris Getz got, would have seen their team do what this franchise did last year, is what is being gotten at.  Going off of MLB history, I don't see many (if any) other truly qualified GMs losing 121 games with this team last year.  Using that as a standard, I feel it is absolutely fair to give Chris Getz a failing grade for last year.

[Dick Allen]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Lol…I can’t even believe this an actual debate.  Every single GM candidate would have assumed the same lack of talent level in the organization.  It would have created a headwind that none of them could have overcomes if you evaluate performance strictly on a W-L basis.  Why there is a lack of talent to start with is completely irrelevant to how the performed as the GM of the Chicago White in 2024.  You clearly aren’t capable of separating Getz’s performance as Director of Player Development from his performance as GM.  They are 100% two completely different things and must be evaluated separately.

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Wasn't the White Sox farm system ranked top 5 when Getz was in charge? How did that turn out? You can't separate it. Apparently a lot of people thought there was a lot of talent in the Sox system, and they weren't developed. Now, we are supposed to believe this clown will develop them? I really don't get your point.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:39 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

They performed eight games worse than their Pythagorean record and about ten games worse than their total team fWAR would imply.  If that doesn’t qualify as “bad luck”, then I think we have vastly different definitions.

But let‘s ignore the luck for argument’s sake…you’re actually telling me that almost all the failures from last year fall on Getz and little to none on the regime before him?  How is he responsible for Robert both getting injured and underperforming?  How is he responsible for the extensions given out to soft ass, low drive players in Moncada & Eloy?  How is he responsible for giving a very ordinary player in Benintendi a franchise setting contract?  How is he responsible for Vaughn regressing last year?  Despite general injury concerns, those five players were still projected to put up 10.3 fWAR last year per ZiPS and instead combined for -0.1 wins.  If they would have performed half as expected, we don’t come close to setting the record.

And again, Getz deserves plenty of blame for things like bringing in an over the hill Maldonado, giving significant playing time to Sheets, and missing on a lot of his depth trades.  To his credit, Getz did acknowledge there was a talent gap in the upper minors and he went out and tried to add some positional guys to fill it, but ultimately failed in that regard.  Fletcher & DeLoach both turned out to be big misses, but how much of that falls on Getz vs. a shitty pro scouting function?  The same applies to a less extent to Julks & Shewmake.  But those guys in the paragraph above getting hurt put a greater emphasis on our lack of depth and it cost us dearly.

I will forever argue that Getz was never qualified to be GM.  Whether you want to blame him for our player development shortfalls or suggest he was constrained in some capacity by those above him, his track record in that role was very poor to say the least and he simply did not deserve the opportunity to be our GM.  But when evaluating his performance as our GM last year, none of that matters at all.  He was dealt an absolute s%*# hand that any other GM would have struggled with.  What are the obvious things Getz should have done differently last year that would have greatly improved our on-field results when he has a broken foundation, a terrible manager, and an owner who won’t spend?

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Well I'm glad that you're making an attempt at this but I think me and West Eddy just piss people off because no matter how sound your arguments are people don't buy the bad luck stuff mainly because having best players who are expected to produce who are almost always injured is not just bad luck it's expected bad luck so somehow you have to magically find their projected WAR out of thin air .Doesn't matter to all the fans that Getz inherited these players. 

While he was Director of Player Personell and Asst.GM he should have waved his magic wand and made them less susceptible to injury even though he likely had nothing to do with trading for them or extending them.

All these arguments are nothing new to the ones you're discussing this with. They just refuse to look at it that way.You're not allowed to say hey yea Getz shouldn't have been hired but he was and at least he's made some moves that an outside hire may have made. But the Sox were a dumpster fire way before Getz became GM and his other jobs too. The previous rebuild just never had much of a chance to succeed without players who developed into strong consistent professionals. All the fans here were constantly projecting Eloy to start having 40 HR seasons or were fooled by 2019 bouncy ball stats (Moncada) or sticky tack stats (Giolito) a cool SS (Anderson) or Vaughn's "generational talent" are embarrassed for having put their faith in these players and the FO and owner. The terrible record so soon after the collapse coincided with the collapse of Intl scouting, drafting and development, injuries , labor issues  and a worldwide pandemic all on top of an organizational house of cards is now thrust at the feet of Getz and in a years time he hasn't managed to make the Sox win like at all. Good hires, rebuilding things in intl scouting or R &D , getting new toys for development , improving the farm system, all these things pale in comparison to letting Jesse Chavez walk or trading Mena or God knows what else everyone seems to focus on. No one wants to hear it. They just want one neat little package of blame to belong to Getz and JR. Optimism and hope and searching for silver linings is for children.You must raise your spears against the evil that has transpired and led to this abomination . You're either with us or you're against us. 😡  🔪🐖🐗

[Dick Allen]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:16 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Well I'm glad that you're making an attempt at this but I think me and West Eddy just piss people off because no matter how sound your arguments are people don't buy the bad luck stuff mainly because having best players who are expected to produce who are almost always injured is not just bad luck it's expected bad luck so somehow you have to magically find their projected WAR out of thin air .Doesn't matter to all the fans that Getz inherited these players. 

While he was Director of Player Personell and Asst.GM he should have waved his magic wand and made them less susceptible to injury even though he likely had nothing to do with trading for them or extending them.

All these arguments are nothing new to the ones you're discussing this with. They just refuse to look at it that way.You're not allowed to say hey yea Getz shouldn't have been hired but he was and at least he's made some moves that an outside hire may have made. But the Sox were a dumpster fire way before Getz became GM and his other jobs too. The previous rebuild just never had much of a chance to succeed without players who developed into strong consistent professionals. All the fans here were constantly projecting Eloy to start having 40 HR seasons or were fooled by 2019 bouncy ball stats (Moncada) or sticky tack stats (Giolito) a cool SS (Anderson) or Vaughn's "generational talent" are embarrassed for having put their faith in these players and the FO and owner. The terrible record so soon after the collapse coincided with the collapse of Intl scouting, drafting and development, injuries , labor issues  and a worldwide pandemic all on top of an organizational house of cards is now thrust at the feet of Getz and in a years time he hasn't managed to make the Sox win like at all. Good hires, rebuilding things in intl scouting or R &D , getting new toys for development , improving the farm system, all these things pale in comparison to letting Jesse Chavez walk or trading Mena or God knows what else everyone seems to focus on. No one wants to hear it. They just want one neat little package of blame to belong to Getz and JR. Optimism and hope and searching for silver linings is for children.You must raise your spears against the evil that has transpired and led to this abomination . You're either with us or you're against us. 😡  🔪🐖🐗

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I don't think there is one poster that has ever posted the White Sox being this bad has nothing to to with the previous regime. That would be insane, just as insane as it would be to say this is all on the previous regime, except for Chris Getz, who last i looked, happened to be part of said regime. 

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:19 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Getz inherited landmines that he had planted in his previous roles as Director of Player Development and Assistant GM.  He then stepped on those landmines numerous times because he was too stupid to remember where he planted them.

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How was he supposed to overcome the lack of talent on the major league roster and in the upper minors in one offseason with no resources.  He went out and added Fletcher & DeLoach, two guys you were excited about, to help address our OF depth.  Are those misses on him or the Pro Scouting staff he gutted over the course of the season?  That’s a perfect example of why it’s so hard to judge Getz at this point in time.  So far, he’s had to rely on people he’s actively looking to replace to help guide his decision making.  Hopefully that’s no longer the case and it will be much easier to assess Chris moving forward.

What are the other landmines are you referring to?

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

How was he supposed to overcome the lack of talent on the major league roster and in the upper minors in one offseason with no resources.  He went out and added Fletcher & DeLoach, two guys you were excited about, to help address our OF depth.  Are those misses on him or the Pro Scouting staff he gutted over the course of the season?  That’s a perfect example of why it’s so hard to judge Getz at this point in time.  So far, he’s had to rely on people he’s actively looking to replace to help guide his decision making.  Hopefully that’s no longer the case and it will be much easier to assess Chris moving forward.

What are the other landmines are you referring to?

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Once again, who cares what anyone else thinks?  I am not the Sox GM and neither are you.  There is one guy who is paid to be the Sox GM and his name is Chris Getz.  And last I checked, he traded Santos for DeLoach and also listened to the guy he hired (Josh Barfield) in picking Fletcher over McCarthy.  So you just named two of his outfield failures in your very own post.

Edited Monday at 07:35 PM by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:29 PM, ptatc said:

This is common in the business world. Haven't you ever heard the phrases promote them to the level of their incompetence."

You promote them to get them out of the way.

I'm encouraged by what I see from Getz so far. We'll see how it turns out.

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The Peter Principle.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:24 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

How was he supposed to overcome the lack of talent on the major league roster and in the upper minors in one offseason with no resources.  He went out and added Fletcher & DeLoach, two guys you were excited about, to help address our OF depth.  Are those misses on him or the Pro Scouting staff he gutted over the course of the season?  That’s a perfect example of why it’s so hard to judge Getz at this point in time.  So far, he’s had to rely on people he’s actively looking to replace to help guide his decision making.  Hopefully that’s no longer the case and it will be much easier to assess Chris moving forward.

What are the other landmines are you referring to?

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He doesn't know. It just sounds good to speak in generalizations about planting landmines and forgetting where he put them. He doesn't know any decisions Getz made. He just knows the Sox became very bad very quickly and Getz came out the other side unscathed .

However we are starting to learn things he's been doing, the people he fired, the people he hired, rebuilding infrastructure with all that it entails. These things are conveniently forgotten because many were just made and we have no idea how it'll turn out. I'd like to think hiring Bannister led to the ultimate rise of Crochet as a starting pitcher which led to a strong trade eventually. I've seen enough evidence that this is true. Good things are happening even with incompetent Chris Getz in charge. But I suppose 6 TJ surgeries will end up his fault too sooner or later .

Edited Monday at 08:05 PM by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:03 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

He doesn't know. It just sounds good to speak in generalizations about planting landmines and forgetting where he put them. He doesn't know any decisions Getz made. He just knows the Sox became very bad very quickly and Getz came out the other side unscathed .

However we are starting to learn things HD been doing, the people he fired, the people he hired, rebuilding infrastructure with all that it entails. These things are conveniently forgotten because many were just made and we have no idea how it'll turn out. I'd like to think hiring Bannister led to the ultimate rise of Crochet as a starting pitcher which led to a strong trade eventually. I've seen enough evidence that this is true. Good things are happening even with incompetent Chris Getz in charge. But I suppose 6 TJ surgeries will end up his fault too sooner or later .

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Is Rick Hahn responsible for the demises of Moncada Jimenez Anderson Grandal etc.?

[Snopek]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:08 PM, caulfield12 said:

Is Rick Hahn responsible for the demises of Moncada Jimenez Anderson Grandal etc.?

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What are you implying?

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:14 PM, Snopek said:

What are you implying?

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"But I suppose 6 TJ surgeries will end up his fault too sooner or later ."

Who gets blamed?  Just bad luck right?

The fact that LaRussa was forced upon him?

Ultimately the GM is going to be responsible for whatever happens on his watch.  And his win/loss record, too.

Although most believe it's unfair to blame Getz for last year...he's got to be at least somewhat responsible, yes?

Edited Monday at 08:19 PM by caulfield12

[Dick Allen]

Ask yourself iis there another MLB team that would hire Chris Getz to be its GM? I think the answer is no. Maybe I'm way wrong, but I really doubt it.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:22 PM, Dick Allen said:

Ask yourself iis there another MLB team that would hire Chris Getz to be its GM? I think the answer is no. Maybe I'm way wrong, but I really doubt it.

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Or Haber?  He totally changed sports already. 

Or Hahn?  He might be in Siberia for all we know.

Or KW even?

Edited Monday at 08:28 PM by caulfield12

[Snopek]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:19 PM, caulfield12 said:

"But I suppose 6 TJ surgeries will end up his fault too sooner or later ."

Who gets blamed?  Just bad luck right?

The fact that LaRussa was forced upon him?

Ultimately the GM is going to be responsible for whatever happens on his watch.  And his win/loss record, too.

Although most believe it's unfair to blame Getz for last year...he's got to be at least somewhat responsible, yes?

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I don't know who these "most" are that you're referring to because I have not seen that opinion.

But to answer your question, yes, Getz is to blame for last year. As is JR. As is Hahn. As is Grifol etc. It's a long list.

I don't understand the obsession with trying to choose a single person to assign blame to. 

[Snopek]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:22 PM, Dick Allen said:

Ask yourself iis there another MLB team that would hire Chris Getz to be its GM? I think the answer is no. Maybe I'm way wrong, but I really doubt it.

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I think this says more about JR than it does Getz, but maybe that was your point.

[ptatc]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:32 PM, Snopek said:

I don't know who these "most" are that you're referring to because I have not seen that opinion.

But to answer your question, yes, Getz is to blame for last year. As is JR. As is Hahn. As is Grifol etc. It's a long list.

I don't understand the obsession with trying to choose a single person to assign blame to. 

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Society today. You have to vent your anger at a person.

[Dick Allen]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:34 PM, Snopek said:

I think this says more about JR than it does Getz, but maybe that was your point.

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it says something about both.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:32 PM, Snopek said:

I don't know who these "most" are that you're referring to because I have not seen that opinion.

But to answer your question, yes, Getz is to blame for last year. As is JR. As is Hahn. As is Grifol etc. It's a long list.

I don't understand the obsession with trying to choose a single person to assign blame to. 

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There isn't.

Although the last decade of Sox fandom was basically a whack a mole game of crediting Hahn and blaming KW until it was no longer feasible.

85% of this is on Reinsdorf.

Unfortunately, he's not exactly going to be held accountable.

[Snopek]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:34 PM, ptatc said:

Society today. You have to vent your anger at a person.

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Definitely extends past blame and anger stuff. Just a very binary approach to things and lack of nuance in general.

Anyway, get off my lawn.

[Lip Man 1]

There is more than enough blame to go around that's what happens in a dysfunctional organization. 

[PaleAleSox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:27 PM, caulfield12 said:

Or Haber?  He totally changed sports already. 

Or Hahn?  He might be in Siberia for all we know.

Or KW even?

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Both Hahn and KW were trying to be poached by other teams at one point or another.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:42 PM, PaleAleSox said:

Both Hahn and KW were trying to be poached by other teams at one point or another.

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Sure, the 2019 AL Executive of the Year had to get some things right after Tatis and Semien/Bassitt.

How many times did he refer to that award as a defense?

 

When everybody supposedly wanted Hahn...he was basically a contract negotiator.

Edited Monday at 09:00 PM by caulfield12

[fathom]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:22 PM, Dick Allen said:

Ask yourself iis there another MLB team that would hire Chris Getz to be its GM? I think the answer is no. Maybe I'm way wrong, but I really doubt it.

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Definitely not another team that wouldn’t fire their GM after the worst season ever

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:21 PM, southsider2k5 said:

So we are supposed to feel that a GM who absolutely failed by any of all measures of player development just all of the sudden doesn't have to be able to understand how it works effectively to be doing a good job at GM, when in his first year at GM, we didn't see any great success stories at this area for hitters, but we can't hold that against him, because of his contribution for leaving this cupboard bare.  That's circular as hell.

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I really don’t understand what you are getting at here.  I have never once defended Getz’s track record as the head of our player development, but what does that have to do with his performance as our GM last year?  In his previous role, he wasn’t in charge of resource allocation for the org.  We have no idea what technology upgrades he was proposing to KW & Rick that were ultimately rejected.  We do know that he’s made considerable investments in this area as GM this year.  Whether those eventually change the trajectory of our player development function remains to be seen, but it was never going to be a flip a switch and suddenly everything is fixed.  They still have to take the data from the physical technology and pair it with their new R&D function to create the actual insights that will drive player development.  Hopefully we start seeing some real progress in this area next year and if not then flame away.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 6:23 PM, southsider2k5 said:

It's not just one person to blame, but of all people to separate out and  blameless for what happened last year, Chris Getz is absolutely the very last person who deserves absolution.

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Show me where I said he was blameless.  I have ripped him for shreds for all sorts of stuff.  I just think more of the blame for our on-field results last year fall on Jerry, KW, & Hahn.  And I don’t think the results would have been radically different with another GM if they had the same constraints Chris had.