Sox Claim P Mike Vasil

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:03 PM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Why should it ? Who earned it ? Apparently you want them to set another loss record.

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But Vasil earned it?

The loss record pinnacle has already been achieved so what does it matter now?

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:56 PM, caulfield12 said:

Another record probably costs Getz his job.

JR would be much happier with a relatively quiet 52-110.

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No, it probably doesn’t.  This is JR we are talking about.  How long were Kenny and Hahn employed through how many awful seasons?

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:34 PM, Buehrle>Wood said:

I'm confused. How do you claim a rule 5 player? Don't they have to be offered back to the team? Since they weren't, wouldn't we be able to send him down?

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[caulfield12]

At first I read it as Vagisil.

That doesn't bode well for him.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:21 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

But Vasil earned it?

The loss record pinnacle has already been achieved so what does it matter now?

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Pitching is incredibly different than hitting.  You can adjust a guy’s mechanics, arm slot, grip, repertoire, pitch mix, etc and quickly transform a pitcher.  By no means am I saying that will happen here, but there is a chance to unlock a pitcher at the major league level.  That is far more challenging with a hitter.

And no, setting the all-time loss record in back to back seasons would be career suicide.  I get that you are pretending you would be ok with it, but no sane GM would be.

[T R U]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:33 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Pitching is incredibly different than hitting.  You can adjust a guy’s mechanics, arm slot, grip, repertoire, pitch mix, etc and quickly transform a pitcher.  By no means am I saying that will happen here, but there is a chance to unlock a pitcher at the major league level.  That is far more challenging with a hitter.

And no, setting the all-time loss record in back to back seasons would be career suicide.  I get that you are pretending you would be ok with it, but no sane GM would be.

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I think losing 121 games in 2024 should have been career suicide but here we are 

[Buehrle>Wood]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:22 PM, southsider2k5 said:

 

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Oh okay. Thought the offering back would have to happen before waivers but that makes sense.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:07 AM, T R U said:

I think losing 121 games in 2024 should have been career suicide but here we are 

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I won’t defend all his moves (I have ripped plenty of them), but he came into a complete disaster of an organization and there is nothing he could have done to prevent us from being extremely bad.  The worst team in baseball history?  Obviously that’s unacceptable, but I would argue that‘s more on Jerry and bad luck than Chris Getz.  If it happens again, then Chris will run out of excuses.

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:23 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

I won’t defend all his moves (I have ripped plenty of them), but he came into a complete disaster of an organization and there is nothing he could have done to prevent us from being extremely bad.  The worst team in baseball history?  Obviously that’s unacceptable, but I would argue that‘s more on Jerry and bad luck than Chris Getz.  If it happens again, then Chris will run out of excuses.

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A LOT of GMs have come into complete disasters.  That's usually what opened the job in the first place.  None of them have ever managed to do what Chris Getz achieved last year, and a large chunk of it was a complete lack of minor leaguers turning into major leaguers which was literally his his entire job description previously.  It can't be that literally every draft pick for a decade was unfixable. 

[GreenSox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:42 AM, southsider2k5 said:

A LOT of GMs have come into complete disasters.  That's usually what opened the job in the first place.  None of them have ever managed to do what Chris Getz achieved last year, and a large chunk of it was a complete lack of minor leaguers turning into major leaguers which was literally his his entire job description previously.  It can't be that literally every draft pick for a decade was unfixable. 

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Well, here are the  position players drafted in the top 5 rounds in the last 10 years.  I can't argue that  one one think that a few would develop just out of happenstance....but there really isn't a lot here:

2015:  None
2016:  Collins, Call, Fisher
2017:  Burger, Sheets, Luis Gonzalez
2018:  Madrigal, Steele Walker, Lency Delgado (SS)
2019:  Vaughn, James Beard (CF)
2020:   None
2021:  Montgomery, Kath
2022:  Jordan Sprinkle
2023:  Jacob Gonzales, Calvin Harris
2024:  Caleb Bonerner, Nick McLain, Casey Saucke, Sam Antonacci

 

With all due respect to Schultz, drafting high school pitchers in the early rounds has been a net negative.

I will also say that Vaughn and Sheets should both be able to hit and it wouldn't surprise me if both do hit this season.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:42 AM, southsider2k5 said:

A LOT of GMs have come into complete disasters.  That's usually what opened the job in the first place.  None of them have ever managed to do what Chris Getz achieved last year, and a large chunk of it was a complete lack of minor leaguers turning into major leaguers which was literally his his entire job description previously.  It can't be that literally every draft pick for a decade was unfixable. 

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Chris Getz should have never been named GM.  But I got to disagree with this idea that lots of GMs have come into disasters similar what Chris did.  We’re talking about an organization that was years & years pretty behind the rest of the competition in many key functional areas.  He also assumed a roster that lacked talent, had to take on the most incompetent manager I have ever laid witness to, and had an owner unwilling to spend to help offset the previous regime’s shortfalls.  No matter what Chris did, this team was going to be an absolute s%*#-show last year.  To be historically bad requires both a complete lack of talent and incredibly bad luck.  Again, I don’t think Getz should our GM and certainly warrants blame for what transpired last year, but the fact it was even a possible outcome falls on Jerry and the previous regime.

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:33 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

Pitching is incredibly different than hitting.  You can adjust a guy’s mechanics, arm slot, grip, repertoire, pitch mix, etc and quickly transform a pitcher.  By no means am I saying that will happen here, but there is a chance to unlock a pitcher at the major league level.  That is far more challenging with a hitter.

And no, setting the all-time loss record in back to back seasons would be career suicide.  I get that you are pretending you would be ok with it, but no sane GM would be.

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Getz just set a record to top countless other GM’s throughout baseball history but he needs to do it twice before being on the hot seat?  The sad thing is, I think he keeps his job even if he matches last year’s record.

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:11 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

Chris Getz should have never been named GM.  But I got to disagree with this idea that lots of GMs have come into disasters similar what Chris did.  We’re talking about an organization that was years & years pretty behind the rest of the competition in many key functional areas.  He also assumed a roster that lacked talent, had to take on the most incompetent manager I have ever laid witness to, and had an owner unwilling to spend to help offset the previous regime’s shortfalls.  No matter what Chris did, this team was going to be an absolute s%*#-show last year.  To be historically bad requires both a complete lack of talent and incredibly bad luck.  Again, I don’t think Getz should our GM and certainly warrants blame for what transpired last year, but the fact it was even a possible outcome falls on Jerry and the previous regime.

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I fail to see what incredible bad luck happened to the 2024 Sox. They were just literally the worst collection of players in baseball history. And funny enough, almost all of that falls on Getz past and current job. 
 

Ultimately, it’s JRs fault for putting Getz in this position. It was time for a full on reboot from the ground up and once again, we failed to do that. 

[southsider2k5]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:11 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

Chris Getz should have never been named GM.  But I got to disagree with this idea that lots of GMs have come into disasters similar what Chris did.  We’re talking about an organization that was years & years pretty behind the rest of the competition in many key functional areas.  He also assumed a roster that lacked talent, had to take on the most incompetent manager I have ever laid witness to, and had an owner unwilling to spend to help offset the previous regime’s shortfalls.  No matter what Chris did, this team was going to be an absolute s%*#-show last year.  To be historically bad requires both a complete lack of talent and incredibly bad luck.  Again, I don’t think Getz should our GM and certainly warrants blame for what transpired last year, but the fact it was even a possible outcome falls on Jerry and the previous regime.

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Chris is a major part of the biggest problem with the previous regime. His job was literally player development,  which we did none of.  We lacked talent BECAUSE OF CHRIS GETZ 

[Quin]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:10 AM, GreenSox said:

Well, here are the  position players drafted in the top 5 rounds in the last 10 years.  I can't argue that  one one think that a few would develop just out of happenstance....but there really isn't a lot here:

2015:  None
2016:  Collins, Call, Fisher
2017:  Burger, Sheets, Luis Gonzalez
2018:  Madrigal, Steele Walker, Lency Delgado (SS)
2019:  Vaughn, James Beard (CF)
2020:   None
2021:  Montgomery, Kath
2022:  Jordan Sprinkle
2023:  Jacob Gonzales, Calvin Harris
2024:  Caleb Bonerner, Nick McLain, Casey Saucke, Sam Antonacci

 

With all due respect to Schultz, drafting high school pitchers in the early rounds has been a net negative.

I will also say that Vaughn and Sheets should both be able to hit and it wouldn't surprise me if both do hit this season.

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What will always remain funny to me is that Burger and Sheets went outside of the org in 2020 (left off the taxi squad, I believe Burger was eventually added) and then made it to the bigs in 2021.

Sox should have tried outsourcing player development.

[caulfield12]

  On 3/24/2025 at 3:46 AM, Quin said:

What will always remain funny to me is that Burger and Sheets went outside of the org in 2020 (left off the taxi squad, I believe Burger was eventually added) and then made it to the bigs in 2021.

Sox should have tried outsourcing player development.

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I'm starting to think the return on investment from Tauchman Slater Taylor and Jankowski would have been better invested into the White House's Easter Egg Hunt "official pro sports team sponsor."

Maybe Labor Day, Veterans Day, 4th of July and Christmas sponsorship are still available?

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:11 AM, Chicago White Sox said:

Chris Getz should have never been named GM.  But I got to disagree with this idea that lots of GMs have come into disasters similar what Chris did.  We’re talking about an organization that was years & years pretty behind the rest of the competition in many key functional areas.  He also assumed a roster that lacked talent, had to take on the most incompetent manager I have ever laid witness to, and had an owner unwilling to spend to help offset the previous regime’s shortfalls.  No matter what Chris did, this team was going to be an absolute s%*#-show last year.  To be historically bad requires both a complete lack of talent and incredibly bad luck.  Again, I don’t think Getz should our GM and certainly warrants blame for what transpired last year, but the fact it was even a possible outcome falls on Jerry and the previous regime.

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Chris Getz was part of the organization’s lack of talent as director of player development from 2017 to 2020 and assistant GM from 2021 until he was promoted to full-time GM.  In the scenario you discussed with SS2K5, an external GM hire would bear no blame for the current state of the organization they are taking over which is why Getz’s performance is worse than others.  Since 2017, he was employed in two roles in which part of his job was to develop prospects and help improve the big league roster.  Getz was not a brand new external GM hire so if he wants to play the blame game, he can look into a mirror.

Edited Monday at 08:02 AM by WhiteSox2023

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/23/2025 at 11:21 PM, WhiteSox2023 said:

But Vasil earned it?

The loss record pinnacle has already been achieved so what does it matter now?

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Sox are better at identifying pitching talent because it's more readily available and it's talent from a system that's known for identifying talent but it has nothing to do with the OF so why ask ?

Look I'm not trusting you to keep quiet if the Sox break that record again.Your pitchfork will be sharper than ever so stop acting like it would be no big deal to you. I don't think a day goes by without sounding like the Sox killed your puppy .

[WhiteSox2023]

  On 3/24/2025 at 8:22 AM, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Sox are better at identifying pitching talent because it's more readily available and it's talent from a system that's known for identifying talent but it has nothing to do with the OF so why ask ?

Look I'm not trusting you to keep quiet if the Sox break that record again.Your pitchfork will be sharper than ever so stop acting like it would be no big deal to you. I don't think a day goes by without sounding like the Sox killed your puppy .

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Getz already won the award for biggest GM failure last year.  Everyone’s pitchforks should be sharper already.  JR and Getz kick everyone’s dog and this year will be no different unfortunately.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

  On 3/23/2025 at 10:38 PM, Lip Man 1 said:

Not being facetious but does it even matter? What is the difference between losing 110 games or 125 games? Both are embarrassments, just a matter of degree... correct?

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Apparently a lot of fans were embarrassed to near death by that record . So don't ask me ask them. There was no way 2024 was going to be anything but bad once we knew there wasn't going to be any spending and I said as much either in Dec of 2023 or January of 2024. Apparently a lot of fans believed Jerry's forked tongue about a quick turnaround even when he knew he wasn't going to spend anything or when Getz was trying to figure out how to sell something to the fans so basically said we'll bring in nice guys change the culture and play defense.

You seem to be one of the most bitter and I get it. I never did expect much from Reinsdorf so I don't feel like I was fooled or betrayed. Most of my adult life the Sox have had terrible teams. 2005 was the one exception in 100 years . I'm not really expecting another World Series win in my lifetime. I've enjoyed my Chicago sports experience. I got to see the Bears win the Superbowl, the Sox win a World Series, the Bulls win 6 championships and the Blackhawks win 3 Stanley Cups. I got to see a lot of good players from my earliest sports memories of listening to Bulls and Blackhawks games on the radio hearing about Bobby Hull and Chet Walker and Bob Love , Sayers and Butkus, even the brutal collapse of the '69 Cubs. All the Championships were won after I left Chicago in 1980 so I never experienced them as a Chicagoan except in my heart and going to an ALCS game against the Angels in Anaheim in 2005.

As a fan I just don't get too wrapped up in winning or losing. Of course I like winning teams a lot more but I know Reinsdorf is the the latest in a long line of Sox owners who always claimed to not have enough money to compete so it is what it is. Now I just look at the players and look for some successes and nice guys. I enjoy it more that way.Nothing to get truly upset about.

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:21 AM, T R U said:

I fail to see what incredible bad luck happened to the 2024 Sox. They were just literally the worst collection of players in baseball history. And funny enough, almost all of that falls on Getz past and current job. 
 

Ultimately, it’s JRs fault for putting Getz in this position. It was time for a full on reboot from the ground up and once again, we failed to do that. 

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They performed eight games worse than their Pythagorean record and about ten games worse than their total team fWAR would imply.  If that doesn’t qualify as “bad luck”, then I think we have vastly different definitions.

But let‘s ignore the luck for argument’s sake…you’re actually telling me that almost all the failures from last year fall on Getz and little to none on the regime before him?  How is he responsible for Robert both getting injured and underperforming?  How is he responsible for the extensions given out to soft ass, low drive players in Moncada & Eloy?  How is he responsible for giving a very ordinary player in Benintendi a franchise setting contract?  How is he responsible for Vaughn regressing last year?  Despite general injury concerns, those five players were still projected to put up 10.3 fWAR last year per ZiPS and instead combined for -0.1 wins.  If they would have performed half as expected, we don’t come close to setting the record.

And again, Getz deserves plenty of blame for things like bringing in an over the hill Maldonado, giving significant playing time to Sheets, and missing on a lot of his depth trades.  To his credit, Getz did acknowledge there was a talent gap in the upper minors and he went out and tried to add some positional guys to fill it, but ultimately failed in that regard.  Fletcher & DeLoach both turned out to be big misses, but how much of that falls on Getz vs. a shitty pro scouting function?  The same applies to a less extent to Julks & Shewmake.  But those guys in the paragraph above getting hurt put a greater emphasis on our lack of depth and it cost us dearly.

I will forever argue that Getz was never qualified to be GM.  Whether you want to blame him for our player development shortfalls or suggest he was constrained in some capacity by those above him, his track record in that role was very poor to say the least and he simply did not deserve the opportunity to be our GM.  But when evaluating his performance as our GM last year, none of that matters at all.  He was dealt an absolute s%*# hand that any other GM would have struggled with.  What are the obvious things Getz should have done differently last year that would have greatly improved our on-field results when he has a broken foundation, a terrible manager, and an owner who won’t spend?

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 2:22 AM, southsider2k5 said:

Chris is a major part of the biggest problem with the previous regime. His job was literally player development,  which we did none of.  We lacked talent BECAUSE OF CHRIS GETZ 

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What does that have to do with his performance as GM?

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 7:58 AM, WhiteSox2023 said:

Chris Getz was part of the organization’s lack of talent as director of player development from 2017 to 2020 and assistant GM from 2021 until he was promoted to full-time GM.  In the scenario you discussed with SS2K5, an external GM hire would bear no blame for the current state of the organization they are taking over which is why Getz’s performance is worse than others.  Since 2017, he was employed in two roles in which part of his job was to develop prospects and help improve the big league roster.  Getz was not a brand new external GM hire so if he wants to play the blame game, he can look into a mirror.

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That doesn’t change the fact that those past shortcomings impacted the talent level he assumed as GM.  You can argue that he should have never been named GM, but once he was put in the position those issues 100% created a headwind for him or any other GM.  You don’t hold somebody’s past body of work against them when evaluating their effectiveness in a different role.

[T R U]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:39 PM, Chicago White Sox said:

They performed eight games worse than their Pythagorean record and about ten games worse than their total team fWAR would imply.  If that doesn’t qualify as “bad luck”, then I think we have vastly different definitions.

But let‘s ignore the luck for argument’s sake…you’re actually telling me that almost all the failures from last year fall on Getz and little to none on the regime before him?  How is he responsible for Robert both getting injured and underperforming?  How is he responsible for the extensions given out to soft ass, low drive players in Moncada & Eloy?  How is he responsible for giving a very ordinary player in Benintendi a franchise setting contract?  How is he responsible for Vaughn regressing last year?  Despite general injury concerns, those five players were still projected to put up 10.3 fWAR last year per ZiPS and instead combined for -0.1 wins.  If they would have performed half as expected, we don’t come close to setting the record.

And again, Getz deserves plenty of blame for things like bringing in an over the hill Maldonado, giving significant playing time to Sheets, and missing on a lot of his depth trades.  To his credit, Getz did acknowledge there was a talent gap in the upper minors and he went out and tried to add some positional guys to fill it, but ultimately failed in that regard.  Fletcher & DeLoach both turned out to be big misses, but how much of that falls on Getz vs. a shitty pro scouting function?  The same applies to a less extent to Julks & Shewmake.  But those guys in the paragraph above getting hurt put a greater emphasis on our lack of depth and it cost us dearly.

I will forever argue that Getz was never qualified to be GM.  Whether you want to blame him for our player development shortfalls or suggest he was constrained in some capacity by those above him, his track record in that role was very poor to say the least and he simply did not deserve the opportunity to be our GM.  But when evaluating his performance as our GM last year, none of that matters at all.  He was dealt an absolute s%*# hand that any other GM would have struggled with.  What are the obvious things Getz should have done differently last year that would have greatly improved our on-field results when he has a broken foundation, a terrible manager, and an owner who won’t spend?

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Dude, give them those 8 games then. They win 49 games. The team was a dumpster fire, there was no amount of luck swinging either way that was going to change it. Getz wasn't some outsider walking in wiping the slate completely clean, he was part of the previous regime, why does he get a pass for this?

I can't answer your last question, none of us have any idea what kind of restraints he has on him for decision making from JR. Case in point, Grifol should have been fired LONG before he actually was, but again I have no idea if Getz wanted to fire him in May and JR said no or Getz just let it ride until he finally did it. 

[Chicago White Sox]

  On 3/24/2025 at 12:50 PM, T R U said:

Dude, give them those 8 games then. They win 49 games. The team was a dumpster fire, there was no amount of luck swinging either way that was going to change it. Getz wasn't some outsider walking in wiping the slate completely clean, he was part of the previous regime, why does he get a pass for this?

I can't answer your last question, none of us have any idea what kind of restraints he has on him for decision making from JR. Case in point, Grifol should have been fired LONG before he actually was, but again I have no idea if Getz wanted to fire him in May and JR said no or Getz just let it ride until he finally did it. 

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Your original post was that being historically bad one time should be career suicide, so yeah, citing the bad luck matters in that regard.  I never once said that winning 49 to 51 games would be good or acceptable.  We all knew the team was going to be bad last year and they somehow surpassed our wildest expectations.  Getz definitely isn’t free from blame, but context does matter if you want have an objective debate on his performance in year 1.

Regardless, we didn’t hire Getz to make us a mediocre team last year…he was brought in to structurally reform the entire organization from the bottom up.  This idea that we should fire a GM who came into an impossible situation after one season because of the Win-Loss record is crazy to me.  Unless you feel like he’s failing behind the scenes, then he should continue forward as GM.  That being said, another historically bad season would be hard to ignore.  At some point, the foundational improvements should start providing a higher floor in terms of the on-field product.  If not, then some of the things viewed as being bad luck suddenly become the debate of bad process.