Chisoxfn Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Sox stuck with Johnson too long. I agree. But, there are reasons. One, he was a first round draft pick. Lots of teams stick with their first round picks too long. Second, they didn't have many options. Josh Paul. Brook Fordyce. Left-handed hitting catchers are worth a longer look. As for Moneyball, if you check the book you'll discover one name is never mentioned -- Miguel Olivo. A whole chapter on the greatness of Chad Bradford, who was a good pickup (although we'll see how long the As hold him as his salary jumps next spring). But Michael Lewis never mentions that Beane gave up a solid catching prospect for him. Too soon to judge if that was such a great trade by Beane. Dude also traded for T. Long, and he's no everything he was touted to be either. Thats exactly what I was referring to. The story on Bradford was great, but I was laughing whey they failed to mention the stud catching prospect the Sox receieved. Olivo already has one of the best arms in the big leagues and this was just his first season. Offensively he definately has a ways to go, but I think the potential is there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 And gracious....Jason and the Arganauts was what one of my buddies dads used to always call me. As long as co-eds squeel YAY-son everytime they see you, it's all good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 There was no way Terrence Long was comin back to the O's especially what he said bout Macha I think so essentially this is a Kotsay for Hernandez type of deal. I think the Padres wanted Kendall but the Pirates didn't want to pay enough of his bloated salary so the Padres got Hernandez instead. Kotsay's a pretty good playa if healthy, he's a scrapper with a good .OBP who can steal bases but yeah the Padres win on this 1. If they sign Wells, they mite get back to .500 next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Oh I read moneyball and I have to admit at parts of it I was rolling and at other parts I thought, now that makes sense. In the terms of Billy always jobbing people, I always find it hillarious how he never mentions how a prospect he moves can be doing good someplace else or anything like that. Plus, I still think he's an idiot for drafting some of the guys he did, when he did. Jeremy Brown can be all that, but I still think he's gonna have some major weaknesses, once he reaches the majors and if he reaches the majors. Reed is a far superior player to him, yet the White Sox drafted him in the 2nd round and up until late this year, not many people heard much about him. Reed was considered a "reach" too. I also think Reed will be a much better ball player then Brown will ever be. I wish my Moneyball reference was in piss-yellow to better underscore the sarcasm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cerbaho-WG Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 The entire of drafting Brown, Teahen, McCurdy, etc. is that they will sign below market value. Not many players are going to take the lowest bonus in the first round. The A's have no wiggle room on draft day, so they have to use this tactic. What's the point of drafting someone in the first round who's demanding too much money for your budget? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 There was no way Terrence Long was comin back to the O's especially what he said bout Macha I think so essentially this is a Kotsay for Hernandez type of deal. I think the Padres wanted Kendall but the Pirates didn't want to pay enough of his bloated salary so the Padres got Hernandez instead. Kotsay's a pretty good playa if healthy, he's a scrapper with a good .OBP who can steal bases but yeah the Padres win on this 1. If they sign Wells, they mite get back to .500 next year. Pads tried to acquire AJ but the Twins asked for Peavy and the Pads scoffed. Of course the Giants just handed over Nathan, Boof and then if its true and Liriano went as well...all I can say is STUPID. It would be like us dealing Wing, Honel and Sully (if we had him signed) for AJ. Sorry, but no chance in hell I'd do that deal, even if we didn't have Mient. I think this was the best cacther the Pads could of got. He's signed to a good deal, is good behind the plate and they didn't have to give up any stud prospect and now they have Giles/Long/Nady in their outfield, plus Nevin and of course Klesko. I think it will be Nevin, Giles, Nady with Long off the bench. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 There was no way Terrence Long was comin back to the O's especially what he said bout Macha I think so essentially this is a Kotsay for Hernandez type of deal. I think the Padres wanted Kendall but the Pirates didn't want to pay enough of his bloated salary so the Padres got Hernandez instead. Kotsay's a pretty good playa if healthy, he's a scrapper with a good .OBP who can steal bases but yeah the Padres win on this 1. If they sign Wells, they mite get back to .500 next year. O's??? That would mean the Orioles. We are talking about the A's here. I assume ya just miswrote that. It's okay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
winninguglyin83 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 meanwhile is there any sense when the Sox are going to do something? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 meanwhile is there any sense when the Sox are going to do something? I'm guessing they won't make a move till the winter meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 I'm guessing they won't make a move till the winter meetings. Next winter's meetings?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Showtime Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Next winter's meetings?? No, we had the General Managers' meetings that just concluded last week. I'm not sure on the time table, I think it's middle to late December, but the winter meetings is where most of the free agent deals get done and trades are made. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBAHO Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 O's??? That would mean the Orioles. We are talking about the A's here. I assume ya just miswrote that. It's okay. Yeah u can assume that. I make spelling mistakes like BEGOOD sumtimes too SuperSteve, but at least u didn't criticize me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Yeah u can assume that. I make spelling mistakes like BEGOOD sumtimes too SuperSteve, but at least u didn't criticize me. Ha it just threw me off for a sec. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SuperSteve Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 No, we had the General Managers' meetings that just concluded last week. I'm not sure on the time table, I think it's middle to late December, but the winter meetings is where most of the free agent deals get done and trades are made. I was joking. Opps, guess I need green. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Winter meetings are like Dec. 11th till the 17th or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoxFanForever Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Yeah, hopefully something exciting happens for us during the meetings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Yeah, hopefully something exciting happens for us during the meetings. I hope it doesn't go like last year. IIRC, no one made a damn move because everyone was wondering where in the hell Colon/Vazquez was going. Colon finally wound up in a White Sox uniform on about January 8 or 9th. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whitesox61382 Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Beane is a great GM, and I buy into the high OBP and OPS stuff that he looks at, however, I think he puts TOO MUCH stock into it. The fact is that the A's offense has been average at best the past couple of years, despite picking up players that fit Beane's mold. Some of that can be attributed to the financial constraints that the A's have. Still everyone seems to buy into his philosophy despite minimal results. These past 2 trades are typical of Beane. Kotsay and Kielty are high walk guys that generally produce solid OBP, however, I don't think either are the answer to their lack of outfield production. Both have been extremely inconsistant in their careers, and at their best still aren't that special. Furthermore, Beane gave up quite a bit to get them. A young, relatively cheap, AS calibur catchers is one of the hardest things to find, and when you trade an AS catcher you should get more then a corner outfielder whos best year produced an .812 OPS. The A's also created a hole at the catcher position without many realistic option to fill it. I bet that Beane wishes he had Olivo now. He also gave up a very cheap, good, left handed starter, who is coming into his prime for a decent, but unproven corner outfielder. The good thing is that he traded from his strength, and losing Lilly doesn't hurt that much, but given the need for starting pitchers he could have gotten a lot more for a pitcher like Lilly. Personally, I would have loved to see the Sox get Lilly, although the Sox really don't have an high OBP outfielders to offer(besides Reed). I don't think these trades were fueled by financial constraits, considering the money in both trades pretty much equals out, although I think they get some cash as part of the Lilly-Kielty trade. For the first time Beane looks human, and not like some guy who can't do wrong. I think he gave up too much in both trades and didn't receive as much as he could have gotten in return. The A's with still be very good with their great young pitching, however, I think he is creating holes and not fill others. I also hope that Olivo and Cotts continue to develop into solid players so Sox fans can rub it in his face for bragging too much. Don't worry about the Sox. In the near future you will see some big trades out of necessity(financial constraints). This is why I love the offseason. Rumors, trade speculations, and anticipation. Hopefully KW can pull a rabit out of his hat, and get rid of some salary, while putting together a team that can contend. If this team makes the playoffs next year(a HUGE if), given the big contracts they have and the little money needed to fill existing holes, I think KW should get some credit and people should back off of him. Conversely, if the Sox end next year under .500, I think the Sox should get rid of KW. This is a make or break year for KW, and I don't envy him with the tough situation that he is in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrandoFan Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 Beane is a great GM Yeah, just ask him. He should thank the people who got him Grieve, Mulder, Hudson, Zito, Giambi, Chavez, Tejada instead of deifying himself.. He was right on Foulke, Lidle, Durazo and Justice, tho. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YASNY Posted November 19, 2003 Share Posted November 19, 2003 It was a very interesting day from the A's perspective. I don't think Beane is done yet. He has something in mind for that hole at catcher, I'd bet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted November 26, 2003 Share Posted November 26, 2003 This deal is now finally done. http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1671924 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFan Posted November 27, 2003 Share Posted November 27, 2003 Just a little info on Beane and his thoughts about getting other players "We've got most of the winter to pursue some catchers," said Beane, who expects a bigger pool once the non-tender list comes out in mid-December. "We have a list of guys we have an interest in. We have a couple months to fill that need." ideas include: Benito Santiago, Chad Moeller of Arizona, Jason Kendall but Pirates would have to eat most of contract. They are also trying to resign Foulke, but if they lose him look for trade or a Free agent signing such as Rob beck. information taken from Oakland Tribune. That is all from the Nor Cal Front Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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